Bas delta/ranger update

[dm 9]

As has allready been said, I will now make it "official"

The patch will be done, when its done.

No dates, no ETAs.

It takes a lot to make sure that things get done properly, and these were overlooked in the "rush" to get them ready for "BAS Week." Yes we admit that it was not necessarily the best idea, but we learn from our mistakes.

The new patch will be out when we feel that all of the bugs have been squashed, and not sooner.

[marine26thmeu 0]

MEDICUS, probably because they are perfectionists, not in the sense they are contributing, but because they want to use something with no flaws. Honestly all of us ofp players in the community who use addons from teams like BAS, DKM, INQ, E&S, and so many others do wait for the addons to come out. However, those who use the addons and aren't doing anything to help the addon makers shouldn't complain or keep nagging, "when is it going to be done?". I personally don't make any addon models, or in any way make the addon process go faster, but at the same time I never ask or demand when an addon will be finished. I'm just repeating what so many others and mods have said when they say all these addon makers do this on their own personal time. So please sit back and enjoy the addons, if you want to complain GO HELP out. Enough said.

[Gordy 0]

Well,

I don't think it is gonna be a Picasso or Monet painting they doing. It is not gonna be a new space shuttle either. It is a damn patch, so I think we can at least estimate the time.

Patience plz!

It'll be released when it's done.

I think it's better to wait for something like this instead of getting it too early with still some bugs in it.

Quote[/b] ]Still, last release of units were a bit faulty and I (if not the others) can't use them, until the're right.

 

Why can't you use them?

Mfg MEDICUS

Because they don't shoot straight.

It seems that I have to keep shooting everything else except the target in order to hit anybody.

If I knew how to do that, I'd do that.

[ruff 102]

Well,

I don't think it is gonna be a Picasso or Monet painting they doing. It is not gonna be a new space shuttle either. It is a damn patch, so I think we can at least estimate the time.

Patience plz!

It'll be released when it's done.

I think it's better to wait for something like this instead of getting it too early with still some bugs in it.

Quote[/b] ]Still, last release of units were a bit faulty and I (if not the others) can't use them, until the're right.

 

Why can't you use them?

Mfg MEDICUS

Because they don't shoot straight.

It seems that I have to keep shooting everything else except the target in order to hit anybody.

If I knew how to do that, I'd do that.

i think your talkin about the covert units

the weapons are jam and have a realistic bullet projections

its explained in this thread a couple of pages back

and if ur talkin your talkin about the no ammo for the ranger gl covert, u can simply fix it in cpp

the only thing that needs patching are a couple of weapons and texture bugs so u should be able to use it

i just thought that the patch was goin to be a quick thing but im sorry if i pissed off any1 at bas by askin if goin to b released this week coz i know the usual ans

"wen its done"

[Gordy 0]

I am not talking about real life "projections"

Heard about gravity?

1. How come I shoot at crouch and Russkie gets it in the head or I aim at chest and I see Bullet hitting dust over his head further behind.

Targeting instruments are adjustable for example U can set it up at 100m, 200m, etc. So, having it set up at 300m you aim lower to hit 100m target. Here the further the target the lower you aim at it(?)

Gravity makes bullet go downwards not upwards.

2. Is there wind defined in the game engine?

Some guns shoot Up and Left off the target.

Example: ecotech - even few meters ahead of me there is a big difference.

Don't, please talk about real life bullet trajectory.

[dm 9]

I am not talking about real life "projections"

Heard about gravity?

1. How come I shoot at crouch and Russkie gets it in the head or I aim at chest and I see Bullet hitting dust over his head further behind.

Targeting instruments are adjustable for example U can set it up at 100m, 200m, etc. So, having it set up at 300m you aim lower to hit 100m target. Here the further the target the lower you aim at it(?)

Gravity makes bullet go downwards not upwards.

Don't, please talk about real life bullet trajectory.

Let me clear this up again...

Firstly, this can not be explained without talking about real life weapons or their ballistic trajectories, as this is what OFP is simulating.

The scope on the SR-25 SD is zeroed at ~400m. This means that when you aim at a target 400m away, it will hit spot on, on the crosshair. Aim at targets further away, and it will hit below the crosshair, aim at targets closer than 400m and it will hit above the crosshair.

Beacuse this weapon is firing subsonic ammunition, which is traveling a lot slower than "normal" ammo, the ballistic trajectory for this ammo is much more pronounced. For the simple reason that "slow" ammo has a very curved trajectory (because it starts a lot slower, and loses energy/speed much quicker than "normal" ammo), "fast" ammo has a very flat trajectory.

To compensate for this curved trajectory, and the extreme zero range (which is being rectified in the patch) the angle of the scope, and thus its aim-center-point has to be set much lower, as it would in real life. This would allow for your crosshairs to be zeroed at the long-range targets, but, as in real life, the closer/more distant targets would be off-zeroed.

In real life weapon optics are adjustable for set ranges, in OFP however, they are not. Its just something we have to live with.

I would also like to point out here, that the range settings are achived (on scopes like that on the SR-25) by deflecting the horizontal crosshair up and down. This provides a higher center point for closer targets, and a lower center point for more distant targets.

Quote[/b] ]2. Is there wind defined in the game engine?

Some guns shoot Up and Left off the target.

Example: ecotech - even few meters ahead of me there is a big difference.

No, however, if you fire from on a slope (the ground sloping up/down to your left/right - this does not apply if it slopes up/down to your front/rear)  the zero of the weapon will skew off to the left or right (depending on the slope)

This is a game engine bug, and there is nothing we [bAS] can do about it

As for the up part - that is covered in the first part of my post.

I hope this information helps you to understand why the SR-25 SD, and some other SD rifles have a tendancy to fire "up", but this is simply caused by the real world, and is not a "bug" in the addon.

[Imshi-Yallah 0]

Wow now thats what I call an explanation

I presume this means that the BIS SD weapons aren't configd to behave realistically, or rather I should know since the MP5SD3 ingame acts like a sniper rifle half the time.

I've been meaning to ask for a while about the possibility of reflecting real life MG characteristics in OFP, (right now I'm just replacing Mag soldiers with their HD equivalenst)

Would it be possible to have MGs with a 3 round zero, so that single (or triple) accurate shots are possible, while opening up still creates a nasty beaten zone?

[Landwarrior87 0]

confusing.. now we need to read a "readme" to know how to operate a weapon in flashpoint.. im goin old school with this one... breakthrough units and choppers im all for it.. but setting a new standard of how to use the weapons is just going to be confusing and annoying. Just my opinion and feedback, thats what the forums are for. :-)

[Gordy 0]

So if the game is buged, why do we even bother introducing the real life trajectory?

This makes the guns shoot anything but at the target.

You say OFp guns don't do it right, than BAs tries to make it better and we come up with completely strange.

However, this is only my opinion and you'll do as U like, we can consider the subject clear & closed.

[4 IN 1 0]

So if the game is buged, why do we even bother introducing the real life trajectory?

This makes the guns shoot anything but at the target.

You say OFp guns don't do it right, than BAs tries to make it better and we come up with completely strange.

However, this is only my opinion and you'll do as U like, we can consider the subject clear & closed.

the better answer for this is to learn "how to aim"(you dont really need to go prone and aim every time rgr?)

and this is about how the gun zeroed and the matter of "ballistic"

[SelectThis 0]

Gordy, you are confusing two different issues.

1) The SD rounds hit too high - This is because the SD bullet as modelled in JAM has a slower muzzle speed.

Say you were aiming at something 100m in front of you. If you trace the flight path of a slow bullet it forms the shape of an arc. Compare this to throwing a stone. If you throw the stone fast it has a flat flight path, if you throw the stone slowly, in order to cover the same distance you need to throw it higher into the air.

This is what is happening with the weapon firing a slower bullet in OFP, it aims higher in the air. This CAN be fixed by adjusting the zeroing on the weapon via the cpp (which we have done in the upcoming patch).

2) Rounds going left or right. This could be caused by a few things.

a) Higher dispersion coded into the bullet - That's why it's called high dispersion

b) a game bug which happens when you go prone and fire from a slope - nothing that BAS can do about it.

SelectThis

[dm 9]

confusing.. now we need to read a "readme" to know how to operate a weapon in flashpoint.. im goin old school with this one... breakthrough units and choppers im all for it.. but setting a new standard of how to use the weapons is just going to be confusing and annoying. Just my opinion and feedback, thats what the forums are for.

Considering real life soldiers have several hours of classroom based training before even getting hold of any live ammo, then spending weeks on the ranges learning how to shoot (even longer for snipers). I hardly think that some kiddies playing a video game are qulaified to say that having to glance over a few lines of text in order to even understand why these things work is "too much"

Don't you?

[Gordy 0]

I have the opportunity (thanx to my businessman friend) to visit the military shooting range.

We can use their regular weaponry like AK's, SVD as well as number of pistols used by army.

First time I've been there they messed up my sights (was set to 300m) and couldn't hit the target at 100m.

After a while hiting a 100m target was easy with a regular iron sight.

Isn't it easier to zero the target at 100m (I'm always trying to get as close to target as possible). I really do not have any difficulty with using any other guns in OFP except for BAS.

Also, what is the effective range of silenced M4?

[dm 9]

Isn't it easier to zero the target at 100m (I'm always trying to get as close to target as possible). I really do not have any difficulty with using any other guns in OFP except for BAS.

All our rifles, with the exception of the sniper rifles (M24, SR-25 etc) are zeroed at 150m. If you cant hit anything with them, then there is something up, because I, and many many other people dont have a problem with them...

Are you SURE you are not using the HD weapons? As they will make it much harder to hit anything. (see JAM 2 readme)

Quote[/b] ]Also, what is the effective range of silenced M4?

Most NATO sub-sonic ammo has a maximum range of ~100m. Any further than that and it simply does not have the energy to be able to penetrate the target (body armour or not).

Edit: However, for gameplay and coding reasons, we have not included this maximum range limitation on the SD ammo.

[Gordy 0]

It's just me.

What I like is to get quiet and close to number of enemy targets and take them out with two bullets for each.

Usually I was able to take 10-12 soldiers within a 3-5 sec.

Now it gets difficult.

By the way, I really love the ecotech. It is a sensation from a technical point of view.

I'll have to learn it, then.

Are there Deltas with explosives in the pack, because I couldn't find any?

[dm 9]

It's just me.

What I like is to get quiet and close to number of enemy targets and take them out with two bullets for each.

Usually I was able to take 10-12 soldiers within a 3-5 sec.

Now it gets difficult.

What weapon are you using?

For me (and the game) there is NO difference with the old/new weapons, other than the mag names and the sounds (the code is all identical)

Quote[/b] ]By the way, I really love the ecotech. It is a sensation from a technical point of view.

I'll have to learn it, then.

Are there Deltas with explosives in the pack, because I couldn't find any?

There are Deltas with AT, but no satchel charges. Those you'll have to add in via add/remove weapon.

[Gordy 0]

I used MP5 but its a CQB weapon and was useless simetimes in OFP.

Now I would like to use M4 ecotec silenced or reflex. I like them because M4 combines manuverability of MP5 and and ability to engage targets at mid range.

Have you ever considered including a Barret sniper rifle?

Special scripts would be needed so the sniper would engage the target 100-1000m.

[m21man 0]

Quote[/b] ]Special scripts would be needed so the sniper would engage the target 100-1000m.

Weapon ranges are defined in the config.

[Gordy 0]

Not range of a weapon but a trigger that tells the sniper to engage at a, let's say, distance of 800m.

Normaly the soldier would run the distance. What I would want is: He sees an enemy at 750m, then he drops down and engages.

[Jinef 2]

What we need is the models of BAS with the sounds and recoil of FDF mod.

Basically at the moment it looks like you are firing a pellet gun.

ratatatatatatat *all 30 bullets land in exactly the same place 400 metres away*

It takes the challenge out of OFP, and a silenced MG? *rolls eyes*

They all look nice and pretty but to play with them after a large FDF A&D ... impotent is the word.

[m21man 0]

Quote[/b] ]It takes the challenge out of OFP, and a silenced MG? *rolls eyes*

You can put a suppressor on an M249, but it's mainly to get rid of the flash. As for sounds, BAS is going to use Earl's weapons, so they'll hopefully use his excellent sounds.

[Acro 0]

What we need is the models of BAS with the sounds and recoil of FDF mod.

Basically at the moment it looks like you are firing a pellet gun.

ratatatatatatat *all 30 bullets land in exactly the same place 400 metres away*

It takes the challenge out of OFP, and a silenced MG? *rolls eyes*

They all look nice and pretty but to play with them after a large FDF A&D ... impotent is the word.

Amen. I think that FDFmod recoils and other atributes should be made a standart.

[Landwarrior87 0]

Earl's Sounds, Earls Weapons, anything Earl im all for it.. bas can add the flashlights and eotech scopes and then everyone is happy again... Earl is the way to go.

[acidcrash 0]

a little more recoil perhaps, but not to the degree of FDF, that imo is way too much, more chance of hitting what you are aiming at if you were to throw your rifle at them

[lee_h._oswald 0]

ratatatatatatat *all 30 bullets land in exactly the same place 400 metres away*

It takes the challenge out of OFP, ... impotent is the word.

Hrhr, as I said something like that when earl and sucheys marines got released, the "STONE THROWING FORUM MOB" comes up to kill me!

---

As BAS is a trendsetter, it is VERY important how the weapons recoil is set in a Ranger/Delta/Seal-pack.

Please, please, please do not take the original "starship troopers weapon ubersoldat config" from the marines pack.

MfG Lee