Haiti president have left the building/haiti

[hellfish6 7]

MARPAT is still new. A lot of the Marines probably have old woodland BDUs in their closet still, and they are probably allowed to use that as long as they want to. Some Marines like officers and NCOs have to buy their uniforms I think.

[MLF 0]

yea The Lt who was talking to the the news Crews at the Airport was kitted out in full marpat and so was most of the troops in the tall grass surrounding the airport, but then there where Troops with Woodland BDU's and Marpat Helmits, Marpat does indeed provide a far superior amount of Camoflauge from the footage.

[Balschoiw 0]

In my opinion they were only that fast with intervening troops this time because especially the US are afraid of a big wave of refugees from Haiti. Bush already stated that refugess would be returned and not granted asylum in the USA. It´s against international conventions to do that but hell G.W just gives a f*** once more.

First people in boats have already been intercepted by coastal guard and returned. Great to send them back. Not !

Imagine you sitting in one of the boats with your family before you reply.

[hellfish6 7]

It's standard US policy to return refugees like that, not just GWB's. I think they're allowed to stay if they make it to shore, but not if they are intercepted at sea. At least that's how it works with Cuba.

Still, though, I support that policy. I'd rather see them returned to Haiti.

[Harnu 0]

My U.S. History teacher said to us that only Cubans are allowed to stay if they make it to the shore.  Everyone else gets sent home.

Not sure if that is accurate, but he is a smart guy.

[DracoPaladore 0]

More info from Globe and Mail

Quote[/b] ]Thousands greet arrival of Haitian rebels in capital

Photo: Scott Olson/Getty Images

A Canadian soldier stands guard in front of the airport Sunday in Port-au-Prince, Haiti. Violence erupted throughout Port-au-Prince after President Jean-Bertrand Aristide fled the country.

 

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Port-au-Prince — A cheering, chanting crowd hailed the arrival in Port-au-Prince on Monday of former police and army commanders whose three-week insurrection engulfed northern Haiti and toppled president Jean-Bertrand Aristide.

A day after Mr. Aristide left the country, former police chief Guy Philippe led a caravan of gun-toting rebels into the centre of the capital and held talks with current members of the Haitian National Police.

Shouting "Guy Philippe, Guy Philippe" and "He's here," a crowd that swelled to several thousand greeted the rebel leader in front of the National Palace and metropolitan police headquarters.

"He came to free us," said 23-year-old Marjorie Charles, one of a group of students who turned up to greet Mr. Philippe, who left Haiti in 2001 after being accused of taking part in an attempted coup d'état.

Others said they had been deceived by Mr. Aristide, a charismatic former shantytown priest who became Haiti's first democratically elected president but was dogged by accusations of rampant corruption and instigating violence.

"Everyone believed in him, but he destroyed everything," said Sud Jean, 37, who said he had run for mayor under the banner of a pro-Aristide party in the town of ChardonniÄres in southwest Haiti. "He was a sweet talker -- just a bluffer."

With Mr. Philippe was Louis-Jodel Chamblain, a former army officer and organizer of paramilitary death squads who also led rebel units.

Inside the police building, in a crush of journalists, armed rebels and police, Mr. Chamblain said he wanted to thank the people of the United States, France and Canada "for allowing us to get rid of Aristide."

The United States and Canada are among countries that have pledged to combat armed threats to elected governments, but stalled on sending police or military aid to Haiti to bolster Mr. Aristide's government against the insurgents.

Prime Minister Yvon Neptune, who continued in office after Mr. Aristide's departure, has said rebels guilty of murder and other crimes should be punished.

But Mr. Chamblain said he wasn't worried about facing justice. "I have no fear because of anything I've done," he said.

He added that rebel forces would co-operate with U.S. and other foreign troops in a United Nations-sanctioned stabilization force.

About 350 U.S. Marines have arrived in Haiti and up to 100 more are expected. French troops were also expected in Haiti today.

Canada has said it will participate in the force, which was authorized Sunday night by the UN Security Council, but has not said how many troops it will contribute.

A handful of Marines took up positions at about 9 a.m. Monday around the National Palace, where presidential and other government offices are located.

Guards at the rear entrance to the palace building said there was no one inside but police and security personnel.

Faced with the armed revolt, popular protest and intense pressure from the United States and France, Mr. Aristide signed a letter of resignation early Sunday and was flown to the Central African Republic. His final destination is unknown.

Really sounds like that the Haitians didn't like their government. That, or are praising the rebel leader to gain favours for the current rulers. I hope that the presense of soldiers in the countrty can either help stabilize it or at least make it less hostile for citizens.

[MSpencer 0]

Who can blame them? Aristide may have been elected, but he was more of a communist.

Hell, if the US were Haiti, you'd be able to get enough support to oust out Bushy, mostly because Haiti is so poor and poverty stricken.

As for MARPATs, yeah, they're still being issued. It took a long time to get up to M81 cammies, it's gonna take a lot longer to get to MARPATs.

[-33ker 0]

Aristide said he was kidnapped by American soldiers and forced to leave Haiti.

[cozza 24]

Just skipping throught TV and on CNN there was anassassination. Looks like Haiti with all the Carrabian men running around. Someone correct me if i'm wrong.

[Balschoiw 0]

Quote[/b] ]Aristide said he was kidnapped by American soldiers and forced to leave Haiti.

At least he was taken to the airport by the US marines who were supposed to guard the US embassy.

[bn880 5]

Aristide said he was kidnapped by American soldiers and forced to leave Haiti.

That's what he says, furthermore there were always rumors that the US brokered this rebel uprising. And that now the US has something "in mind".

[-33ker 0]

What do the US need Haiti for? There's no oil!

[iNeo 0]

Hm, interesting. Maybe he's lying about being kidnapped to not look like a chicken, blame the Americans for taking him away even though "he wanted to stay"...?

[llauma 0]

What do the US need Haiti for? There's no oil!  

He is a communist who wanted reforms and USA really don't like them..

Nothing is allowed to happen in the caribbean without USA's approval except for Cuba who received the support of Soviet which meant that it could be sacrificed to avoid a war. There's long history of USA "watching" over the islands.

So it's all about imperialistic pride.. What if the thing would spread to the whole caribbean? It would be like USA loosing its golden necklace. That simple can't happen... Not in their own backyard.

[DracoPaladore 0]

Canada getting assailed for failing to step in and save Aristide

Quote[/b] ]

Canada assailed for failing to step in and save Aristide

 

NEW YORK, OTTAWA, PORT-AU-PRINCE -- Canada's reputation as a mediator in the Caribbean is in tatters, with Prime Minister Paul Martin's government accused of standing by while the U.S. and French governments helped remove Haitian president Jean-Bertrand Aristide from office in what he has angrily called "a modern kidnapping."

Diplomatic sources said yesterday that Caribbean leaders were furious at Washington and Paris for refusing to help the democratically elected Mr. Aristide. They also have accused Canada, a traditional power broker in the Caribbean, of complicity in his downfall.

From the Central African Republic, Mr. Aristide said he was run out of Haiti by U.S. forces. "I called it a coup d'état because it is a modern kidnapping," he told CNN.

Mr. Aristide said last night that "American agents" had told him that thousands of Haitians could die if he didn't leave the country.

Jamaica's Prime Minister, P. J. Patterson, has called for an emergency meeting of Caribbean leaders this week to deal with the diplomatic crisis that has followed Mr. Aristide's departure, which many countries in the region believe was a blow to democracy.

Mr. Martin had "unhappy conversations" with leaders from Jamaica, Barbados and the Bahamas prior to Sunday, as he refused to support their calls for intervention.

"They're very mad at us," one source said. "They expected Canada to play more of a mediator role."

But U.S. officials made it abundantly clear to their counterparts in Ottawa that Washington had a "high tolerance" for further Haitian bloodshed and would not be pressured into defending Mr. Aristide in order to prevent it.

"In no way were the Bush guys going to help him out -- in no way," one diplomat said.

Given that stand, Canada recognized that Mr. Aristide had to leave for the good of his own people, a point suggested by Foreign Affairs Minister Bill Graham last Friday. But Caribbean leaders and their supporters among the African-American community in the United States have even more ammunition, given Mr. Aristide's assertion that he was forced from power.

At the United Nations yesterday, Mr. Martin said that Canada was essentially out of the loop the weekend that Mr. Aristide fled the country. The Prime Minister said it appears that Mr. Aristide left of his own volition in order to save the beleaguered country from street battles in the capital.

"If you read Mr. Aristide's letter, it is very clear from the letter that he says he was doing it because he felt it was the best way of preventing bloodshed," Mr. Martin said.

But the Prime Minister allowed that he had no way of knowing whether Mr. Aristide had signed the letter under duress. "I do not have, and Canada does not have, knowledge of what happened in those final hours as Mr. Aristide tried to go," Mr. Martin told reporters at the UN. "So all we can go on is what he actually said in the letter."

The Prime Minister said that neither he nor Mr. Graham has had an opportunity to talk to Mr. Aristide. However, at least one member of the cabinet did meet with a member of the rebel group that battled to unseat the former leader.

Health Minister Pierre Pettigrew, whose Montreal riding includes a large number of Haitians, met with a delegation from the country two weeks ago, including Paul Arcelin, a self-styled rebel who appeared in Port-au-Prince yesterday wearing battle fatigues.

Mr. Arcelin, who was arrested in the Dominican Republic last year for plotting a coup against Mr. Aristide, refused to describe his role in the revolt. But he did confirm having met with Mr. Pettigrew, whose office said the meeting was part of the minister's "open-door policy" to the Haitian community in his constituency, and did not affect Canadian policy.

Canada was at the forefront of the diplomatic effort last month, when a foreign delegation visited Port-au-Prince to lend clout to a power-sharing deal proposed by Haiti's Caribbean neighbours. Denis Coderre, the federal minister responsible for relations with French-speaking countries, was one of two spokesman for the group, which included a top U.S. State Department official for Latin America.

But in the course of the past week, Canada's public presence in Port-au-Prince diminished, as has its diplomatic role in attempting to broker a deal between Mr. Aristide and the rebels.

With Mr. Aristide's departure clearing the way for a UN stabilization force, Mr. Martin said that Canada will play a "leadership role" in sending troops, even though he acknowledged the Canadian Forces are stretched "very thin."

There are currently about 60 Canadian military personnel in Haiti, most of them providing security at the airport for evacuation flights, defence officials said last night. (Seventy-six Canadians left on flights for the Dominican Republic yesterday.)

Others are acting as bodyguards for Canadian diplomats.

In addition, there are about 40 Canadian air force ground crew personnel in the neighbouring Dominican Republic, where Canadian evacuees are being flown. Three C-130 Hercules aircraft are being used for airlift operations.

Defence officials in Ottawa are still trying to cobble together some sort of a plan that would allow the Canadian Forces to be part of a multilateral security force for Haiti. An army company of about 120 soldiers was standing by at Canadian Forces Base Trenton, but nothing has been ruled out, even the possibility troops serving on other deployments might have to extend their tours of duty.

[Ex-RoNiN 0]

Aristide said he was kidnapped by American soldiers and forced to leave Haiti.

That's what he says, furthermore there were always rumors that the US brokered this rebel uprising. And that now the US has something "in mind".

In other words, business as usual in Middle and South America

[Postduifje 0]

Aristide said he was kidnapped by American soldiers and forced to leave Haiti.

That's what he says, furthermore there were always rumors that the US brokered this rebel uprising.   And that now the US has something "in mind".

In other words, business as usual in Middle and South America

argg, indeed, smelly business it is.

[hellfish6 7]

Yeah, definately not the first time we'd done something like that. We put 'em in power, then we knock them out again. Interesting to note, though, is that the US and France were both being sued by the Aristide government for slavery reparations.

[Koolkid101 0]

If there are any former slaves still alive they should get the money but there are none so no to reps.

[-33ker 0]

What do the US need Haiti for? There's no oil!  

He is a communist who wanted reforms and USA really don't like them..

Nothing is allowed to happen in the caribbean without USA's approval except for Cuba who received the support of Soviet which meant that it could be sacrificed to avoid a war. There's long history of USA "watching" over the islands.

So it's all about imperialistic pride.. What if the thing would spread to the whole caribbean? It would be like USA loosing its golden necklace. That simple can't happen... Not in their own backyard.

And I thought these times were finally over...

I mean, Haiti can not become another Soviet outpost and a threat to the USA anymore. It has no significant resources or a major market for US products. I'd rather send more troops to Iraq instead of getting involved into another mess like Haiti.

Damn imperialists! The USA behave like in 1880...

[IsthatyouJohnWayne 0]

Yet if the US did not send troops there people would be certain to remark that it was because Haiti was not an oil rich nation or something similar and would use it as 'proof' of American greed and double standards.

Im personally more inclined to think that this situation was not brought about directly by the US (though they may not have done much to help Aristide when they could have), but then again right now i wouldnt find it at all surprising.

[denoir 0]

There is no nice way to say this, but the problem with Haiti is that it's a banana republic that lacks any democratic culture. Until the people get their shit together and realize that you change a leader by electing somebody else, and not by throwing a revolution, there won't be stability. The only leaders that will emerge will be those that are proficient in the art of by force removing their predecessors. And you don't build a democracy on such foundation.

As for the US (and in this case EU as well plus the other western countries) the main problem all over again is the opinion that democracy is "the right of the people to elect somebody we like". If they were going to send in troops anyway, they should have protected Aristide and his democratically elected government, even if they did not agree with his politics. Instead, not only did they not help him but they asked him to step down. And by that they actively contributed to the sabotage of Haiti's democratic evolution.

I cannot however stress enough that the blame mainly lies with the people in Haiti who decided to destroy the democratic process by throwing a revolution.

[bmgarcangel 0]

Yet if the US did not send troops there people would be certain to remark that it was because Haiti was not an oil rich nation or something similar and would use it as 'proof' of American greed and double standards.

Im personally more inclined to think that this situation was not brought about directly by the US (though they may not have done much to help Aristide when they could have), but then again right now i wouldnt find it at all surprising.

I don't think you got the picture right man

We're not there for oil or any of that crap. We're just there to keep the peace for now, we aren't even taking control of Haiti, we are not even an occupying force. We're just making sure as you all know or should know that we are just keeping the peace so that more blood baths don't start breaking out like they have for the past few weeks over there.

~Bmgarcangel

[llauma 0]

I don't think you got the picture right man

We're not there for oil or any of that crap.  We're just there to keep the peace for now, we aren't even taking control of Haiti, we are not even an occupying force. We're just making sure as you all know or should know that we are just keeping the peace so that more blood baths don't start breaking out like they have for the past few weeks over there.  

~Bmgarcangel

USA simple saw the opportunity to get rid of a communist leader. They forced an elected leader to leave the country.

The thing about peace keeping is just to make it look better.

USA don't keep peace without gaining something for them selves. They only have a handfull of UN troops.

[red oct 2]

didn't we once already go down to Haiti back in 94 to keep this guy in power? maybe its better just to find somebody else to run the country since Jean-Bertrand Aristide isn't really popular w/ nobody at the moment.