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Capitalism and communism

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Thats right non of them work.

I just wanna say it quick: What do you think ?

If capitalism and communism dosent work, what then?

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Elements of them work in combination. There is no 'pure' capitalist or communist system in the world.

Capitalism:

Free trade.

Open markets.

Monetary system.

etc

Socialism:

Healthcare.

Social security.

Laws that protect employees

etc

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capitalism, in some degrees will exist. that's how humans live. it is personal assertion that capitalism and communisms diffference is in degree of 'invisible hand' in action. on same line, socialism is just capitalism with a tweak(social distribution of wealth)

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Everything works perfectly in theory, but communism will never work in real life cause its too much power in one hand and its human nature to get greedy. I think we all should just go to anarchy, it will end the world but heck it will get it over with.....acctualy wait till OFP2 releases first.

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I agree that neither system works, or even exists in its pure form!

Capatilism is based on competition. Therefor the only thing you can count on with capatilism is LOSERS.

Did you know that the Soviet Union has never been a communist country? Socialist relovultion in february 1917: Monarchy replaced with socialist institutions... Lenins Coup in october 1917: Military takeover... All socialist institutions replaced my military dictatorship...

Russia was only socialist for 6months! Remained a military dictatorship until the early 90's....

I think the future lies in Socialist democracy... smile_o.gif

Heres another interesting point: The great post-war "Capitalist Miracles" in Asia (especially japan) were not reached through a free-market environment. The new governments had VERY strict control over the markets throughout the 50's and 60's. Local business was heavily protected, Agriculure was subsidesed and the Welfare system was strenthened. Doesnt sound very "free-market" to me!

Heres another interesting point: Throughout asia, the partisans who helped fight the Japanese were mainly communist, so upon victory the United States government destroyed them (literally sad_o.gif ), and placed japanese collaborators into positions of power in the new governments they were overseeing. This is a direct cause of the Korean war. (If you are american, have a look at your school korean history books, you wil find a big gap from 1949 til the start of the war). This was common throught the world after 1945. Same happened in italy, with the US placing Mussolini's top 16 staff into the top positions of the new government...

Ramble Ramble... tounge_o.gif

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Somebody forgot to mention the authoritarian approach, everyone likes a brutal tyrant ruled country in the world.

I vote for bringing back Stalin, Mussolini, and put Saddam Huessien back in power so other countries can have jobs on trying to assasinate them.  That way all "friendly" countries will have a justified reason for spending large amounts of money on tanks, guns, and bombs for aircraft.

The biggest reason Communism fails is political and social greed by those who are in the country ruled by Communism.  You can't suppress the desires of individuals and groups to satisify their selfish desires.

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If it hasnt been for money the world would be a much better place. But for all this you need ultimate resourses.

Terrible enought we all live on a very small planet with almost no resourses (It is better places if we could get there)

Thats why no idelogy isnt working. Money.

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If it hasnt been for money the world would be a much better place. But for all this you need ultimate resourses.

Terrible enought we all live on a very small planet with almost no resourses (It is better places if we could get there)

Thats why no idelogy isnt working. Money.

I'm sorry to disappoint you, world will never be much better place. There is no universal solution.

Capitalism is no ideology. Yes, it it mostly about money. That's why it works (it is nowhere near the ideal but it works). It wasn't invented, civilisation naturally evolved into it because of human character. And like a human character you can't improve it by some radical changes. It could be made to better through everyday toil but only by small steps.

Communism also works. It works suprisingly well. But you have to be an ant. wink_o.gif

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Depends what you mean by Communism. Do you, for example, include Trotskyism? Stalinism? Or just Marxism? What about Marxist Leninism? Once you get beyond the dogma to the practicalities there's not always a lot of similarity between them. Most of the places its been seen in the world communism has just equalled a dictatorship of the proletariat. But that doesn't mean that's the only manifestation of communism possible. Capitalism's big advantage is a well-defined reward structure. You work because you get paid to work, you work well because you get paid more if you work well. In situations where the proletariat have to work hard without getting paid well (relative to the rest of society, their employers etc.) they will resort to communism as their best option. (Witness Spain in the 1930s.) If enough people fall behind the curve and convert to a philosophy of social revolution, you get one.

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Quote[/b] ]Capitalism is no ideology.

Your right - it's considered to be a theory not an ideology. But for some it takes an ideologic form and function. To claim the neocons doesn't have an ideologicaly relying on capitalic principles would be to lie.

Quote[/b] ]Yes, it it mostly about money.

In it's strictest form it's all about money.

Quote[/b] ]That's why it works (it is nowhere near the ideal but it works).

It only works because of it's flaws. The fact that it does not adress equality such as market liberalism does where pluralism is an ideal makes this "ideology" unsuitable for everyone but the capitalists themselves. Oh, by that I don't mean all the people saving in bonds, fonds or whatever.

I'm sure Bush and his cronies would say that capitalism does wonders, but if that's the case for us the western world one only has to look at the developing world to see it's flaws or lack of perspective.

Quote[/b] ]It wasn't invented, civilisation naturally evolved into it because of human character.

Isn't it typically human to invent? Of course it was invented - just like gunpowder was invented by the chineese. The historical perspective on distribution of wealth and trade starts with barter - trade - monetarian economy.

Communism/Capitalism/Liberalism can't work in it's strictest form. However, aspects of all of them could - and in several ways do work.

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The succes of these system's is dependant on technological evolution.Mankind has seen it's lifequality in conjunction with the speed of overall technoligical evolution ,wich it's incremental in speed.The pace of technological evolution has already become very fast ,and is probably going to go even faster in the future.A person of the middle class in Europe these days has a better life quality than a rich man 100 years ago.If the speedy technological evolution of mankinf continue's ,then we will ultimatly come to a point that we will be so advanced on the industrial and productional level that the mass of human labour will become irrelevant ,and that a system like capitalism and communism won't be advanced enough to fit our needs.

It is my oppinion however ,that many of the ideals of Communism will survive trough the future technological advancements ,however capitalism might die out.Since capitalism has been shown a relative weak system towards sustainable development ,because of individualist nature ,when the future will want true sustainable development they will understand that they better join forces in mututal development instead of out-competing eachother in a cluttered economy.

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Unfortunately, humans are far from perfect. Therefore, the best political/economic system we can hope to create (barring everyone getting frontal lobotomies) is one that is acceptable to most people.

Capitalism (ie. a free market system) with significant government involement in certain areas (welfare, healthcare, defence etc.) is, in my opinion, the best we can hope for at the moment. Still, it's subjective - but its ultimately the type of system that will provide a good living for the majority of people.

Eda Mrcoch is right - the problem isn't money, as money is just a human creation. The problem is humans. Whenever you stick a large group of humans together, you inevitably, due to the substantial differences in individual human psyches, get conflict. You can reduce the instances of conflict through eduction, but conflict will most likely always be a part of human society - and that's not necessarily a bad thing. Sure, people get hurt (ie. war), but without certain types of conflict (arguments) there would be no progress in ideas.

It seems like the human mind is simultaneously our greatest strength and most dangerous weakness.

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The world is gathering itself into less numerable independent states/nations each decade that passes. The sooner that we can all be goverened together, under one banner for the greater good of each and every one of us the better.

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anit going to happen though unless bushs dreams of world domination come true tounge_o.gif

i have to agree democratic socialism probably is the best way forward (Mon the ssp tounge_o.gif )

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