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ralphwiggum

Us presidential election 2004

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Quote[/b] ]It´s a shame that a guy who actually served in vietnam and fulfilled his duty and more than that is compared to a runaway alcoholic who would be working on the blacktop if his daddy wasn´t a Bushy.

It's a shame for what he did after he came back.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news....op.html

Quote[/b] ]Senator John Kerry, the presumed Democratic presidential candidate who is trading on his Vietnam war record to campaign against President George W Bush, tried to defer his military service for a year, according to a newly rediscovered article in a Harvard University newspaper.

Also, how he used a obscure rule to get out out Vietnam(vets say).

but he eventually went there. considering he could have just burn the draft card and flip a bird to authorities, or use family power(if there was one), he went there.

Quote[/b] ]
Quote[/b] ]Does he promote them or does he only lay open his records ?

Anyone who still thinks Vietnam war was a good thing has to stop watching Hollywood "history" movies.

He promotes them.

Also, not all vietnam vets. are with Kerry:

http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjohnkerry.com/

there are always some small renegade group that tries to portray as if they are the voice of all people. and this is one of them. how about viewing it this way? there were some people who saud 9-11 was a conspiracy of US gov't. do they make the majority of opinions?

Quote[/b] ]I give respect for his 1 1/2 tour of duty but not for what he did after he came back.

Late for class, again..................... wow_o.gif

but you don't respect the fact that 1)he went there, 2) he got wounded numerous times, enough to get sent back 3)saw first hand account of what was happening, thus upon his return became a vocal critic?

just realized that i had quiz today. oh crap tounge_o.gif

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Quote[/b] ]Anyone who still thinks Vietnam war was a good thing has to stop watching Hollywood "history" movies.

In every Hollywood film about Vietnam (Excluding "We Were Soldiers", where you see no civvies), Americans are portrayed as semi-feral murderering rapists. They torch towns, incinerate old women with WP grenades, literally rip apart the enemy, wear "trophies", shoot their own officers, use heroin/cocaine while on patrol, and more. In fact, it's virtually impossible to find a standard Hollywood "moment of heroic bravery" in a movie about Vietnam.

Oh let me tell you a story. Apocalypse Now nearly failed because the Pentagon rejected to support the crew with military equipment (which they usually do for every film to get some extra-bucks ). Blackhawk down was majorly modified by the pentagon otherwise they wouldnt have provided any choppers nor pilots.

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Quote[/b] ]I give respect for his 1 1/2 tour of duty but not for what he did after he came back.

I really wonder what logic you are following.

1. He served in vietnam

2. Got wounded, decorated etc.

3. Returned to USA

4. He found out that Vietnam war was not good.(Simple version  biggrin_o.gif  )

5. He protested against it.

6. He was ashamed that he took part in war

7. He took a political career to change things like 4.

8. His opponent is a military n00b with a really bad military record.

9. n00b shows "fantastic" record to public after demands.

10. Now public (the moon knows why) demands Kerry´s records.

11. Kerry shows them.

12. No bad record at all.

13. Some fix their eyes on the reasons why he got his first purple heart and why he was sent after 3 injuries  crazy_o.gif

I mean sorry, but this is soooo off.

You know what ?

When I returned from my first mission where I had to kill people and found out that it was/is pretty useless because it didn´t really change the situation, I OPPOSED it. I really had a hard time with myself and the memories. I ran around told everyone about the cruelties there are on this planet and that we should praise democracy and equal rights for women and man on a daily rate and such. And I found out that noone really cared. That´s it. People can´t understand it because they don´t know how it´s like to be in war. To loose house, family, everything and die of starvation on a road to a refugee camp. They don´t know why people in africa chop apart their victims.

Sure they´ve seen it on TV. But that´s it. They turn the TV off and turn the problem off.

So all my OPPOSITION went into the idea of how to actually change anything. I decided to join the UN core forces and it was the right way for me. I can influence things in a little frame. Success enough for me.

Kerry took the political approach to this. I´m not smart enough for that. Or maybe not that "fishy"  biggrin_o.gif

I hope you understand what I am trying to explain to you.

Edit:

*bah*

I hate memories

*bah*

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my dear, dear billybob2002.

Are you seriously trying to put down Kerry because ONE of his Purple Hearts is in dispute??

How many are in dispute for Bush? Oh thats right. You actually have to be in COMBAT to get a Purple Heart.

How many medals does George Bush have to throw? Oh thats right. You actually have to be in COMBAT to get medals.

Are you seriously trying to put down Kerry because he came back and fought and stood for something he believed in? Fought for something a lot of returning veterans fought for?

Where are the television debates, interviews, and archives of Bush standing up for something? Oh thats right. You actually have to get your nose out of the mound of cocaine to do that.

All of Kerry's records as far as I know, have been released as of this morning, including one by his CO praising Kerry for OUTSTANDING leadership and service.

Where are Bush's? Oh thats right. You actually have to be seen by your CO to have that kind of record.

I commend you for your staunch unwavering loyalty to Bush despite the facts stacked against you. Or maybe I should just feel sad for this country.

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Hi all

Or to make it simple

George Bush Jnr.: Vietnam War Dodger. Cluck, Cluck.

J. F. Kerry: Vietnam War Hero.

Who gets your vote the Vietnam War Dodger or the Vietnam War Hero.

Kind Regards Walker

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you dont seem to understand, how can a wussie, coward, commie, homosexual-tolerant lib democrat be a war hero. Sorry but that doesnt fit my stereotyping. I am confused..no I am not confused, it is all but a lie. Kerry bought those medals on a mexican second-hand market and Bush was in a very dangerous SpecOps operation which MUST be kept secret. This is also the reason why he was absent so often, and the alcohol helped him to forget the human tragedies he experienced deep in the jungle. So I am not confused, everything is in order now. And BTW he flew the plane all by himself onto the carrier. Thats for sure.

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Hi all

Or to make it simple

George Bush Jnr.: Vietnam War Dodger. Cluck, Cluck.

J. F. Kerry: Vietnam War Hero.

Who gets your vote the Vietnam War Dodger or the Vietnam War Hero.

Kind Regards Walker

I wouldn't really care if Bush served in Vietnam or not, I can't see how a person performance and or willingness to participate in war can effect voters. Neither how extra-marital affairs or even previous drug abuse can effect voters. This has no impact on the political skills and political opinions of the person who is trying to get their message to the people.

Having the morals, ethics and general consitency required to fight a war which you don't want to fight is another thing. The persons performance in war however has no relevance.

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Hi all

Or to make it simple

George Bush Jnr.: Vietnam War Dodger. Cluck, Cluck.

J. F. Kerry: Vietnam War Hero.

Who gets your vote the Vietnam War Dodger or the Vietnam War Hero.

Kind Regards Walker

I wouldn't really care if Bush served in Vietnam or not, I can't see how a person performance and or willingness to participate in war can effect voters. Neither how extra-marital affairs or even previous drug abuse can effect voters. This has no impact on the political skills and political opinions of the person who is trying to get their message to the people.

Having the morals, ethics and general consitency required to fight a war which you don't want to fight is another thing. The persons performance in war however has no relevance.

It makes a great deal of difference.

For one....character.

What does Bush's Draft Dodging say about his character? Do you want him dictating policy and law to you?

What does Kerry's war medals, and subsequent lobbying to end the VietNam war tell us about his character? Do you want him dictating policy and law to you?

Should a Draft Dodger be Commander In Chief? What about a war "hero"?

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Well for one, people change. Alot of adults I know and respect have dodged cumpulsory military duty during the sixties/seventies here in Sweden, this including three of my teachers. Maybe they didn't do it to be able to continue sniffing cocain and drinking draft, but they did it. And I respect them for that too, Bush took advantage of his fathers position of power and I feel like he is still living on his fathers "success" but not taking part in a war doesn't display your character in my opinion.

I would have done the same, I would've never taken draft into the Vietnam war if I knew the reason behind it was to weed out communism. A country whose constitution is based on freedom for the individual and each mans right to be equal, that war was pretty grim. Maybe Bush didn't know why the war was going on? Maybe he didn't care? So what? It doesn't change who that person is today.

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Wow,

Its amazing to me how long a topic about which side of this coin is better then the other can get.  I figure I might as well throw in my two cents.

They both suck, but at least if you vote for Kerry you can say you didn't realize at the time how badly he sucked.  If you vote for Bush your only encouraging all of our politicians to suck even more in the future.

One thing I do agree with is that their past is only good for media coverage, and says little to nothing about how they will do as President.

Now then, four years of preparing themselves for the end of the world (or their lives, or whatever they decided was going to happen that was so horrible it didn't matter if the US still had clean air, clean water, pristine wilderness, less national debt or anything that could help future generations) shows that someone is NOT capable of doing the things that a President is supposed to do.

And I'm not even getting involved in talking about the

"War to Make Fear Your #1 Concern"

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This doesn´t exactly fit here but it´s showtime !

Nuclear-Armed Iran Would Be 'Intolerable' -Bush

Quote[/b] ]A nuclear-armed Iran would pose an intolerable threat to peace in the Middle East and a mortal danger to Israel, President Bush (news - web sites) said on Wednesday, adding that any such threat would be "dealt with" by the United States and its allies.

Hahaha !

But it get´s even better:

Quote[/b] ]President Bush (news - web sites) on Wednesday rejected international condemnation of Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon (news - web sites) and said world leaders owed him a "thank you" for his plans for the Gaza Strip (news - web sites) and the West Bank.

...

He also said a right of return by Palestinian refugees to Israel was unrealistic, while backing a Gaza Strip pullout plan in a historic U.S. policy shift.

"Ariel Sharon came to America, and he stood up with me and he said, 'We are pulling out of Gaza and parts of the West Bank,"' Bush told a newspaper conference in Washington.

In "my judgment, the whole world should have said, 'Thank you, Ariel. Now we have a chance to begin the construction of a peaceful Palestinian state,"' Bush added.

Huhuhu ! biggrin_o.gif

Hey I´m sorry but wouldn´t it be good to check his mental health status ? rock.gif

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Quote[/b] ]This doesn´t exactly fit here but it´s showtime !

Nuclear-Armed Iran Would Be 'Intolerable' -Bush

Quote  

A nuclear-armed Iran would pose an intolerable threat to peace in the Middle East and a mortal danger to Israel, President Bush (news - web sites) said on Wednesday, adding that any such threat would be "dealt with" by the United States and its allies.

Hahaha !

IAEA is bitchin about Iran nuclear program.

Quote[/b] ]

Are you seriously trying to put down Kerry because ONE of his Purple Hearts is in dispute??

My Quote:

Quote[/b] ]I give respect for his 1 1/2 tour of duty but not for what he did after he came back.

----------------------------------------------------

Quote[/b] ]

1. He served in vietnam

2. Got wounded, decorated etc.

3. Returned to USA

4. He found out that Vietnam war was not good.(Simple version    )

5. He protested against it.

6. He was ashamed that he took part in war

7. He took a political career to change things like 4.

8. His opponent is a military n00b with a really bad military record.

9. n00b shows "fantastic" record to public after demands.

10. Now public (the moon knows why) demands Kerry´s records.

11. Kerry shows them.

12. No bad record at all.

13. Some fix their eyes on the reasons why he got his first purple heart and why he was sent after 3 injuries  

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/04/20/kerry.military/index.html

Quote[/b] ]

"I saw some war heroes ... John Kerry is not a war hero," said John O'Neill, a Houston lawyer who joined the Navy's Coastal Division 11 two months after the future senator left Vietnam. "He couldn't tie the shoes of some of the people in Coastal Division 11."

Quote[/b] ]

In an interview Tuesday on CNN's "Wolf Blitzer Reports," O'Neill said allegations about atrocities made by Kerry after his return render him "unfit" to be president.

"His allegations that people committed war crimes in that unit, and throughout Vietnam, were lies. He knew they were lies when he said them, and they were very damaging lies," said O'Neill, adding that other former sailors from the same unit also plan to come forward to take on Kerry, whose Vietnam service has figured prominently in his campaign for the White House.

This past weekend, Kerry

Quote[/b] ]Among the charges he lodged were that troops had committed rapes; cut off ears, limbs and heads; taped wires from portable telephones to human genitals; blown up bodies; and randomly fired at civilians.
Quote[/b] ]

An incensed Nixon encouraged O'Neill, who was awarded two Bronze Stars in Vietnam, to challenge Kerry, which he did in a debate on the "Dick Cavett Show."

At one point during the heated exchange, O'Neill, an admiral's son, demanded Kerry explain why, if he saw war crimes taking place, "you didn't do something about them."

Quote[/b] ]

But O'Neill said Tuesday that he and the others who served with Kerry -- who "would much rather have nothing to do with this" -- feel they have "no choice" but to come forward, which he said would dispel the notion that Vietnam veterans as a group are supportive of Kerry's candidacy.

I do think that the republicans only started to rise the issue after one of Kerry CO's made that comment that his third ph was like a getting hurt by a thorn.

Quote[/b] ]

MR. RUSSERT: But, Senator, when you testified before the Senate, you talked about some of the hearings you had observed at the winter soldiers meeting and you said that people had personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human genitals and on and on. A lot of those stories have been discredited, and in hindsight was your testimony...

SEN. KERRY: Actually, a lot of them have been documented.

MR. RUSSERT: So you stand by that?

SEN. KERRY: A lot of those stories have been documented. Have some been discredited? Sure, they have, Tim. The problem is that's not where the focus should have been.

"Winter Soldier" reports.... crazy_o.gif

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Didn't kerry thrpw someone elses Vietnam medals over the Whitehouse Fence? I donno how the Dems could've picked him... He golddigs golddiggers.

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Quote[/b] ]Didn't kerry thrpw someone elses Vietnam medals over the Whitehouse Fence? I donno how the Dems could've picked him... He golddigs golddiggers.

For years people though he threw his medals over the fence. Until one day his medals reappeared in case on wall in his senate office.

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Quote[/b] ]In an interview Tuesday on CNN's "Wolf Blitzer Reports," O'Neill said allegations about atrocities made by Kerry after his return render him "unfit" to be president.

"His allegations that people committed war crimes in that unit, and throughout Vietnam, were lies. He knew they were lies when he said them, and they were very damaging lies," said O'Neill, adding that other former sailors from the same unit also plan to come forward to take on Kerry, whose Vietnam service has figured prominently in his campaign for the White House.

This past weekend, Kerry

this alone shows how republican strategists are lying on every chance they get. criticism is that 1)Kerry was a participant in military massacre 2)Kerry should be criticized for talking about such action.

now make up your mind anti-Kerry crowd. Kerry should be criticized for participating a massacre, so that means he should not have participated in it, even though it was against the order and rules of war. but then again, speaking against it is wrong?

since when did this nation become a feudal society where king's words were not to be questioned? rock.gif

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Quote[/b] ]this alone shows how republican strategists are lying on every chance they get. criticism is that 1)Kerry was a participant in military massacre 2)Kerry should be criticized for talking about such action.

O'Neill took over Kerry's boat after he left, and took on Kerry's Vietnam comments on a television show interview( with Kerry) in the 70's.

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Quote[/b] ]An incensed Nixon encouraged O'Neill, who was awarded two Bronze Stars in Vietnam, to challenge Kerry, which he did in a debate on the "Dick Cavett Show."

Hmm. I wonder what party John O'Neill votes for?

But of course I'm sure there aren't politcal motivations for his dispute with Kerry. Oh no. He's an honest verteran speaking his mind. crazy_o.gif

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[this alone shows how republican strategists are lying on every chance they get. criticism is that 1)Kerry was a participant in military massacre 2)Kerry should be criticized for talking about such action.

Well, Kerry is very confusing. Did he or did he not commit attrocities? If he didn't then the other didn't either.

From April 18's Meet The Press show with Kerry and Tim Russert of NBC News:

Quote[/b] ]MR. RUSSERT: Before we take a break, I want to talk about Vietnam. You are a decorated war hero of Vietnam, prominently used in your advertising. You first appeared on MEET THE PRESS back in 1971, your first appearance. I want to roll what you told the country then and come back and talk about it:

(Videotape, MEET THE PRESS, April 18, 1971):

MR. KERRY (Vietnam Veterans Against the War): There are all kinds of atrocities and I would have to say that, yes, yes, I committed the same kind of atrocities as thousands of other soldiers have committed in that I took part in shootings in free-fire zones. I conducted harassment and interdiction fire. I used 50-caliber machine guns which we were granted and ordered to use, which were our only weapon against people. I took part in search-and-destroy missions, in the burning of villages. All of this is contrary to the laws of warfare. All of this is contrary to the Geneva Conventions and all of this ordered as a matter of written established policy by the government of the United States from the top down. And I believe that the men who designed these, the men who designed the free-fire zone, the men who ordered us, the men who signed off the air raid strike areas, I think these men, by the letter of the law, the same letter of the law that tried Lieutenant Calley, are war criminals.

(End videotape)

MR. RUSSERT: You committed atrocities.

SEN. KERRY: Where did all that dark hair go, Tim? That's a big question for me. You know, I

thought a lot, for a long time, about that period of time, the things we said, and I think the word is a bad word. I think it's an inappropriate word. I mean, if you wanted to ask me have you ever made mistakes in your life, sure. I think some of the language that I used was a language that reflected an anger. It was honest, but it was in anger, it was a little bit excessive.

MR. RUSSERT: You used the word "war criminals."

SEN. KERRY: Well, let me just finish. Let me must finish. It was, I think, a reflection of the kind of times we found ourselves in and I don't like it when I hear it today. I don't like it, but I want you to notice that at the end, I wasn't talking about the soldiers and the soldiers' blame, and my great regret is, I hope no soldier--I mean, I think some soldiers were angry at me for that, and I understand that and I regret that, because I love them. But the words were honest but on the other hand, they were a little bit over the top. And I think that there were breaches of the Geneva Conventions. There were policies in place that were not acceptable according to the laws of warfare, and everybody knows that. I mean, books have chronicled that, so I'm not going to walk away from that. But I wish I had found a way to say it in a less abrasive way.

MR. RUSSERT: But, Senator, when you testified before the Senate, you talked about some of the hearings you had observed at the winter soldiers meeting and you said that people had personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human genitals and on and on. A lot of those stories have been discredited, and in hindsight was your testimony...

SEN. KERRY: Actually, a lot of them have been documented.

MR. RUSSERT: So you stand by that?

SEN. KERRY: A lot of those stories have been documented. Have some been discredited? Sure, they have, Tim. The problem is that's not where the focus should have been. And, you know, when you're angry about something and you're young, you know, you're perfectly capable of not--I mean, if I had the kind of experience and time behind me that I have today, I'd have framed some of that differently. Needless to say, I'm proud that I stood up. I don't want anybody to think twice about it. I'm proud that I took the position that I took to oppose it. I think we saved lives, and I'm proud that I stood up at a time when it was important to stand up, but I'm not going to quibble, you know, 35 years later that I might not have phrased things more artfully at times.

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Quote[/b] ]There are all kinds of atrocities and I would have to say that, yes, yes, I committed the same kind of atrocities as thousands of other soldiers have committed in that I took part in shootings in free-fire zones. I conducted harassment and interdiction fire. I used 50-caliber machine guns which we were granted and ordered to use, which were our only weapon against people. I took part in search-and-destroy missions, in the burning of villages. All of this is contrary to the laws of warfare. All of this is contrary to the Geneva Conventions and all of this ordered as a matter of written established policy by the government of the United States from the top down. And I believe that the men who designed these, the men who designed the free-fire zone, the men who ordered us, the men who signed off the air raid strike areas, I think these men, by the letter of the law, the same letter of the law that tried Lieutenant Calley, are war criminals.

notice the catch-22 situation? the free fire zone was an institutionalized setup for trouble. Had Kerry not followed/adhereed to the situation he would have been called a disobedient soldier. had he not used allowed force, every casualty that would have incurred during his command would have been called a loss and called into question under incompetence.

and for O'Neil, Whitehouse(under Nixon) gave him a great amount of support(not material) and he was invited to meet Nixon on occasion, especially during the on-air debate.

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Hi all

It is like this:

George Bush jnr. is a Vietnam War Dodging chicken who talks big but can not cut the mustard when it comes to national security.

Witness his failure to protect the US main land. When he was the man on watch arround 3000 US lives lost.

Witness his complete failure in the Iraq War costing aproaching a further 1000 US lives and at the rate is going we could be looking at a mire as bad or worse than Vietnam.

Witness the increased fear of terrorism across the world another Failure on George Bush Jnr. the Vietnam War Dodger's watch.

Lets face it Vietnam War Dodger George Bush Jnr. has lost control of the situation.

Being the US's one and only un-President you would not expect much more from such a prancing light weight; who is so afraid of the press that he has had what, just 3 Press conferences in his period in un-Office? George Bush Jnr. has never been presedential material. He is Dodgy Dick Cheyney's puppet boy that is why he has to go to the 9/11 commision with Dodgy Dick Cheyney holding his hand.

George Bush Jnr. and TBA are "All Mouth an No trousers." An unprofesional bunch of chancers and carpet baggers; they even have to sneak in and change the records to hide their lies. Charlatons the lot of them.

They even steal US veterans benefits to pay themselves and their cronies a big tax break while taxing all the middle classes just as much as ever.

They then have the efrontery run a once booming US economy into the ground and leave it saddeled with record breaking debt.

Only fools vote for more republican taxes and bad economic decisions.

Tax and Spend Republicanism has to STOP!

The weekness of George Bush Jnr. is bad for US national seccurity it is bad for the US economy.

It is time for a Stong US President like J. F. Kerry.

J. F. Kerry is a decorated Vietnam war hero.

Witness the fact he fought for his country. To get a Purple heart you have risked your life. He got close enough to the action to be wounded by shrapnel (you dont get that faking service in the National Guard)

J. F. Kerry fought when his nation asked even when he thought the cause was wrong he served his nation honourably.

When he had finnished his Millitary service he came out and said what was needed that the war was wrong. I fully expect there to be brave men and women like J. F. Kerry serving in Iraq now who keep their mouths shut while serving but who will come out and spill the beans on the sordid truth about the Iraq War. Like J. F. Kerry they will protect their buddies and maybe save their lives and when they get out speak out against the false war they were forced to undergo because wealthy men want more oil.

J. F. Kerry as President will make the US secure once again.

J. F. Kerry is presedential material who will bring back the US economy to the fiscal golden era of President Clinton when the US Tax payer never had it so good.

Kind Regards Walker

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Hi all

Or to make it simple

George Bush Jnr.: Vietnam War Dodger. Cluck, Cluck.

J. F. Kerry: Vietnam War Hero.

Who gets your vote the Vietnam War Dodger or the Vietnam War Hero.

Kind Regards Walker

I wouldn't really care if Bush served in Vietnam or not, I can't see how a person performance and or willingness to participate in war can effect voters. Neither how extra-marital affairs or even previous drug abuse can effect voters. This has no impact on the political skills and political opinions of the person who is trying to get their message to the people.

Having the morals, ethics and general consitency required to fight a war which you don't want to fight is another thing. The persons performance in war however has no relevance.

It makes a great deal of difference.

For one....character.

What does Bush's Draft Dodging say about his character? Do you want him dictating policy and law to you?

What does Kerry's war medals, and subsequent lobbying to end the VietNam war tell us about his character? Do you want him dictating policy and law to you?

Should a Draft Dodger be Commander In Chief? What about a war "hero"?

Akira, I'd also just like to point out to you that a patriot has the courage and conviction to speak out against his government when the government is wrong.  It's why we have a First Amendment.  A lot of our founding fathers suffered the consequences of refusing to toe the party line when doing so was considered "patriotic" by their nation (The British Empire).

The "my country right or wrong" mentality is really just ignorant.  People who denigrate protest and call it "unpatriotic" are the same people who made "good burghers" under the Third Reich.  If you (not speaking to you in particular here, but in a general sense) don't speak out for what you believe, whether or not the majority agrees with you, then you are simply a fraction of a man.

This Bush Administration tactic of trying to paint Kerry as anti-American or unpatriotic for having spoken out against the Vietnam War is simply disgusting.  They are simply whoring themselves out to the ignorant masses who don't know any better and whose simple-minded logic equates protest with attacking America.  Protest in many ways is speaking out in defense of America.  The America we should live in.  The America the founders intended for us to have.

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Walker,

You should become a "foreign" advisor for Kerry.... tounge_o.gif

Quote[/b] ]This Bush Administration tactic of trying to paint Kerry as anti-American or unpatriotic for having spoken out against the Vietnam War is simply disgusting

Yea, Kerry had the right to protest. When he lied/mislead/etc. about some of the stories that happened in Vietnam.....  crazy_o.gif

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Walker,

You should become a "foreign" advisor for Kerry.... tounge_o.gif

Quote[/b] ]This Bush Administration tactic of trying to paint Kerry as anti-American or unpatriotic for having spoken out against the Vietnam War is simply disgusting

Yea, Kerry had the right to protest. When he lied/mislead/etc. about some of the stories that happened in Vietnam.....  crazy_o.gif

Do you simply believe what you're told or do you have the intellect to look up things for yourself?

If you are taking anything the media has spoonfed you at face value, then you are dramatically underinformed.

Read up on the Vietnam War my friend.  I have, and I have relatives who served.  My father served twice, my uncle died there with the first air cav and a good friend of mine did six tours in Vietnam as a platoon leader, company commander and then as a forward observer in OV-10 Broncos.  I hate to rain on your rah, rah, rah America is always right, we never do wrong parade, but there were war crimes and atrocities committed by American soldiers.  Example:

The use of napalm, flechette, gas and other illegal munitions.

The use of free fire zones, search and destroy missions where whole villages were zippoed to the ground, and carpet bombing cities are not considered kosher under civilized rules of warfare.

Using .50 cal weapons against personnel is illegal (although everyone does it), the mutilation of corpses (cutting off of ears for souvenir purposes ) and the cutting off of heads for psyops reasons are war crimes.  Shooting civilians (My Lai and other locales) are war crimes.  Torture to obtain intelligence is a war crime.

Granted, it was an ugly, brutal, misfortunate war, that most people would rather forget, but we did behave badly on occasion while fighting there, and that shouldn't be forgotten and John Kerry was not lying.  

Now, did he personally witness these types of crimes?  I don't know, but if my dad did, I'm inclined to think he did too.

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Contrary to popular belief, Kerry did not use the Winter Soldier Hearings as a platform to accuse veterans of warcrimes. Every single bit of testimony that came before those hearings were on a voluntary basis from other vets, most of whom testified about atrocities they themselves committed. Right wingers hate listening to things that clash with their dogmatic view of the way things should be, and so anyone (including Kerry) who was willing to consider Vietnam through non-rose colored lenses was immediately attacked for it. I think that anyone who would question Kerry's commitment to veterans should take a look at his brilliant handling of the Senate Vietnam POW/MIA Investigation Committee. Kerry's weak in many areas, but his service record and his post-Vietnam actions aren't it.

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