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ralphwiggum

Us presidential election 2004

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Haha Powell totally wasted it.

Mission accomplished, world pissed.

Powell dogged by diplomatic missteps

Quote[/b] ]Last week, he completed a trip that took him to India, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Kuwait, Iraq and Saudi Arabia
Quote[/b] ]In exchanges with political leaders and college students, he explained that there was concern in the United States about the outsourcing of high-technology jobs to India.

He said it would help the US counter this difficulty if India would open up its markets to American products.

But his chastisement seemed only to create more annoyance that later turned to anger.

Quote[/b] ]He was also asked why Washington was soft on Pakistan after it had been exposed as having traded in nuclear technology with 'axis of evil' nations like North Korea, Iran and Libya.

He agreed that the transfer of nuclear information to such countries was 'reprehensible' and that he would confront Pakistan's leader, General Pervez Musharraf, about it.

However, because Pakistan has been helping the US fight terrorism in the region, especially in Afghanistan, Mr Powell was extremely muted in his comments when he got to Islamabad.

Worse, as far as the Indians were concerned, he even announced that Washington would grant Pakistan the coveted status of 'major non-Nato ally'.

That the US should reward a nation whose top scientist, and possibly its senior military establishment, has been trading technology on weapons of mass destruction with terrorist-supporting states like North Korea and Iran astounded most international observers.

The Indians, who had not been informed of this in advance, were said to be incandescent with anger.

Quote[/b] ]His surprise visit to Baghdad was marred by Iraqi journalists storming out of a news conference in protest against the killing of two of their colleagues by US troops.

In Kuwait, Mr Powell had to quell Arab rage over a US initiative to bring democracy to the region. The scheme was to have been unveiled at the Group of Eight summit of industrial nations in June.

But when Arab nations saw a leaked copy of the plan, they were incensed and viewed it as another condescending imposition of American values without their prior consultation.

Said Mr Harvey Sicherman, president of the Philadelphia-based Foreign Policy Research Institute: 'In the Middle East, things have got to change. But do you just announce a lot of changes and then let people take it or leave it? I think that the important consulting phase had been left out.'

So the plan was scrapped and will apparently be replaced by a different version that seeks to bolster reforms already begun in the region.

Quote[/b] ]In Spain, the leader of the newly elected Socialist Party castigated the US for its policy in Iraq, calling it a 'fiasco'.

Said senior analyst Marcus Corbin at Washington's Centre for Defence Information: 'The change in Spain was a heavy blow to the US, not just a loss, but a repudiation of a close ally.'

The leader of another US ally, Poland, voiced similar misgivings and said that he felt 'misled' about weapons of mass destruction.

Quote[/b] ]Meanwhile, as Mr Powell returned from his trip, a new poll showed that anti-American sentiment had grown alarmingly in several European and Muslim countries around the world.

Back in 1999, US President George W. Bush said he was 'a uniter, not a divider'.

But many view his foreign policy moves as having caused more division than unity, even among traditional US allies.

Next time he´d better stay home. crazy_o.gif

Who need foes when you have such a capable team wow_o.giftounge_o.gifbiggrin_o.gif

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Hi all

This is surely an Election Issue

When will George Bush Jnr. and the Rest of TBA apologise to the famlies of 9/11 victims for the failure of security for which they were entrusted?

So far only the Whistle Blower Richard Clarke has had the courage to face the famlies of 9/11 victims and ask their forgiveness when he said in on the stand and in sworn testimony:

Quote[/b] ]"Those entrusted with protecting you, failed you. And I failed you. We tried hard but that doesn't matter because we failed."

He added: "I would ask, once all the facts are out, for your understanding and for your forgiveness."

http://www.reuters.com/newsArt....4662987

And what do TBA do Character Assasinate him and tell downright lies about him.

And Still No Apology From TBA

Fuming Walker

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Bush even didn´t attend to a single funeral of a soldier killed in Iraq.

What did you expect ?

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This was made just shy of a year ago, but I still think it's pretty funny.  It's a clip from "The Daily Show with Jon Stewart".  Sure, the show is liberally biased, but the clip is still funny.

President Bush debates Governor Bush

Ehh... maybe this belongs in the Iraq thread... my bad...

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Quote[/b] ]When will George Bush Jnr. and the Rest of TBA apologise to the famlies of 9/11 victims for the failure of security for which they were entrusted?

Still trying to pin it only TBA.

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Quote[/b] ]Still trying to pin it only TBA.

They had their role in this and they could have done more to prevent that. It would at least be a nice gesture if they apologized for that. The little gesture of humanity should be done , even by the TBA.

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Quote[/b] ]Still trying to pin it only TBA.

They had their role in this and they could have done more to prevent that. It would at least be a nice gesture if they apologized for that. The little gesture of humanity should be done , even by the TBA.

Not in America. Any good lawyer will tell you that an apology is an admission of responsibility (indeed, an admission that something is even wrong), and therefore an admission of culpability.

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Is it really that neurotic ?

I mean they don´t have to say " We missed several chances to take influence on the events of 9/11".

Just a little "We´re incredible sorry for what happened to the people within the WTC, the firefighters, to everyone who was involved in the tradegy and their relatives. We share your feelings and we regret that these people had to die. We are sorry for that."

Would that be a confession or a gesture ? Well placed the TBA could take benefit of it don´t you think ?

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Just a little "We´re incredible sorry for what happened to the people within the WTC, the firefighters, to everyone who was involved in the tradegy and their relatives. We share your feelings and we regret that these people had to die. We are sorry for that."

Would that be a confession or a gesture ? Well placed the TBA could take benefit of it don´t you think ?

Members of the Administration have said things to that effect plenty of times.

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Seriously. I dont think a change of administration in the US is gonna change much.

Considering the amount of racist, backward, naive, overpatriotic, insultive material used by the conservatives to show "who they are" realy scares me.

And the battle intensifies. On the conservative side you have  realy stereotypical NRA members that insult the world as cowards, that supports strict catholicism, considers succesful women as "Feminazis" and people believing in the greenhouse effect as"Environmentalist Wackos". Conservatives generally consider homosexuals as unnormal, sick and pervert. And Iraq&palestine as a country that needs to be carpet bombed. And dont forget "dont ever trust a muslim, trust only the ones with a bullethole between the eyes"

Tough slogan Albert. Pretty polarising, pretty generalising. Yeah maybe but right now it is pretty easy to define a general profile of "the republican voter". And surprising enough in most cases this voter isnt very moderate, but has extreme perceptions.

And it is scary that 50% of americans are indeed republican voters.

One may say that this shouting out loud is a general way of americans celebrating their freedom of thought and freedom of speech. That is just the way they are and after a election they will be good friends again with the world. ... But the current amount of insults targeting europe and the islam, homosexuals, working women and people that support gun laws just goes too far. Especially when these voters openly say what should happen to these "people".

Reading internet sites such as "thefrenchsuck.com" (thegermanssuck.com) and listening to radio talkmasters such as Rush Limbaugh one gets the impression that mixed up with all the humor is also a serious message. And this message is often a bit too extreme.

Generalising? certainly I am generalising republicans a bit too much, but the amount of disgusting comments coming from US-teritory, from people free to speak their mind, is just too much for me. I realy feel insulted and my sense of humor is gone.

Whatever happens to the election in the US cant change my attitude right now. I am no longer tolerant towards americans telling me "i am just kidding"

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Say what??? Catholicism?rock.gif    Dude, most of the conservative politicians in the United States are NOT Catholic.   Maybe in your country that's the way they are but NOT in the United States.   Overall most Catholics in the United States tend to be quite a bit more liberal then Protestants and other Christian fundamentalist sects.  The same in Latin America where you currently have conservative right wing political parties embracing Protestantism as a countering force to the Catholic Church's "liberation theology" that has fueled countless Marxist rebellions against American supported governments in Latin America.

The most conservative religious group here in the US is probably the Southern Baptists. These are the types that you are probably thinking of.

Chris G.

aka-Miles Teg<GD>

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And it is scary that 50% of americans are indeed republican voters.

You forgot those who don't vote. wink_o.gif

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Well, a president who fuels national rivalties and tries to pull other nations like germany and france into the mud, like G.W Bush did is not respected anywhere but at home where he can be the leader of a bunch of Rednecks. I´m pissed by the hatred shown on several websites also, but I think people who even don´t know how to spell germany right and put on their german WW2 uniforms at weekends to "replay" WW2 battles are so low that I don´t even feel touched by them.

Whenever you try to voice your opinion at such sides you only get yelled down as "Nazi" or "Jew-Killer".

They have no brain. That´s my conclusion. And they are lucky to find a correspondant intellectually downsized partner at the nearest supa-dupa shopping mall. Once 90 percent of the USA population under 20 weights 150 kilogramms we´ll see who´s boss  wink_o.gif

Well I don´t care. I already stated some time ago that the USA is a no-go for me atm. That has not changed. I don´t support anyone with my Euros who shows that much lack of knowledge and wants to take a pic of me when I enter his beloved country.

Edit: And only to make this clear:

I respect every US citizens as long as he respects me. I don´t see the US participants at these forums as the ones who are mebers of the "no-brain" connection. In fact I respect them as long as they don´t get into the Nazi-Shit or call their french fries freedom fries just for the sake of it.

We had some of the no-brainers here, but they didn´t survive long enough to influence the forum in a bad way. They tried but they didn´t manage. Therefore we have to say "Thank you! " to the mods who are / were very aware of that issues and handled them in an appropriate way.

As I said I don´t think that the majority of US people is hostile by nature against foreign countries but if that hostility is fuelled by politicians in high positions it´s unevitable that hostility is growing.

Take this forum as a good example on how it can be if people talk to each other in a civilized way. Everyone can benefit.

Uh well...FS.., he´s probably running around somewhere in the desert with a USA flag atm, as he went off in a hurry when it became clear that WMD´s would not be found in Iraq.

He´s no good example, but he´s gone. Not bad for us. biggrin_o.gif

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Quote[/b] ]I´m pissed by the hatred shown on several websites also

I was (still is) pissed about that Bush war criminal crap in your sig.:crazy:

Quote[/b] ]As I said I don´t think that the majority of US people is hostile by nature against foreign countries but if that hostility is fuelled by politicians in high positions it´s unevitable that hostility is growing.

Most people are mad because companies are taking jobs overseas.

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Quote[/b] ]Most people are mad because companies are taking jobs overseas.

Thats a global problem, not a national one.

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I'm all for bush, i actually would prefer a more conservative republican as president, bush is to lax. Liberal scum arnt taking my guns though, pry them from my cold dead fingers they can. The economy cannot be predicted by anyone, annnlysts are hired every year to predict the economy and they are always wrong, nor bush or kerry can say if i do this then the economy will go well, they can only guess and hope to see what happens.

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Quote[/b] ]I was (still is) pissed about that Bush war criminal crap in your sig.:crazy:

Isn´t it true ?

Quote[/b] ] i actually would prefer a more conservative republican as president, bush is to lax.

In wich ways to lax ? Please be more detailed and don´t only repeat the phrases you got from your NRA sticker wink_o.gif

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And if bush is a war criminal, how about clinton? You seem so damn liberal you probably love old slick willy, the guy who sent our troops to help a bunch of worthless natives in somalia who would probably have died of disease and hunger anyways. Bush sending troops to help the haitians is also stupid, we should really stop helping worthless 3rd world countries with their problems and help ourselves. Bush is hardly a war criminal, crazy arabs slammed to planes into the world trade centers must i remind you, if you seem to removed from the problems of the world today. Bin Laden and all his supporters and allies need to die.

AND! Bush is to lax because, he is doing nothing about the gun control in this country, liberal senators in california, unfortunatly where i live, are destroying our right to bear arms, they just renewed the assault weapons ban so now we are still stuck to hunting rifles and 10 round magazines, i sent an entire essay to our senator on why gun control doesnt work, she hasnt responded yet. And, this crap with keeping saddam in prison and giving him a fair trial? Did he give a fair trial to the people he killed? Did he care? No! he didnt! Why should we give him the privilage of defending himself, they should have shot him when they found him, or executed him once he was transported overseas.

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Quote[/b] ]the guy who sent our troops to help a bunch of worthless natives in somalia who would probably have died of disease and hunger anyways.

I was there also and to call them worthless natives is racism.

Now I know where you are coming from.

mad_o.gif

Edit: Just for the record.

Quote[/b] ]to help a bunch of worthless natives in somalia who would probably have died of disease and hunger anyways
Quote[/b] ]we should really stop helping worthless 3rd world countries with their problems and help ourselves

Both comments are racism.

I reported the post to the mods and wait for appropriate actions taken.

Quote[/b] ]§2)No bigotry

Racists, sexists, homophobes or any other type of bigots are not welcome on these forums, such offences will very likely result in an immediate and permanent ban.

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Quote[/b] ]to help a bunch of worthless natives in somalia

Well then you definetly find some friends at the military.com site . E.g right now the soldier propose that Faluja should be carpet bombed because of the 5 men who died today. I mean killing muslims or a terorists, whats the big difference. Is there one at all. Same goes for Somalia, these guys are so thin they go where whereever the wind blows them. They make so much babies that whether thousands of them get slaugthered doesnt realy affect the statistic! If they are too dump to build a few Burger King restaurants for themselves well then they aint worth being alive anyway

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And if bush is a war criminal, how about clinton? You seem so damn liberal you probably love old slick willy, the guy who sent our troops to help a bunch of worthless natives in somalia who would probably have died of disease and hunger anyways.

By european standards clinton was pretty conservative and not that far from bush, much less of a pain in the ass but not worshipped like you seem to think.

Keep your guns, ban gay marriages, abolish social security, I dont care, its your country but I do care about the foreign policies of your elected president.

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And if bush is a war criminal, how about clinton? You seem so damn liberal you probably love old slick willy, the guy who sent our troops to help a bunch of worthless natives in somalia who would probably have died of disease and hunger anyways.

Oh, hmmm i actually thought america invaded iraq to help the people... what? Isn't Somalia worth helping? Why not, what's the difference huh?

Yes you are right, it's a scandal to send out troops in order to help innocent ppl... Troops are for INVADING, KILLING, not helping ppl! And why should we help them anyway, i don't care about thooooose ppl!

rock.gif

Smell the irony

Damn man, don't you see the fucking problem? It's very strange that America really really really wants to help Iraq but all the other poor countries with dictators get no help at all... Gotta love this beautiful world!!!

*sigh*

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Seriously. I dont think a change of administration in the US is gonna change much.

In many ways you are correct, but in other ways you are incorrect. Although you may have a general distaste for American policy in general, would you not agree that the last three years represent a dangerous shift away from the status quo of "America being an arrogant but not especially threatening superpower" to something far more ominous?

Quote[/b] ]Considering the amount of racist, backward, naive, overpatriotic, insultive material used by the conservatives to show "who they are" realy scares me.

And the battle intensifies. On the conservative side you have realy stereotypical NRA members that insult the world as cowards, that supports strict catholicism, considers succesful women as "Feminazis" and people believing in the greenhouse effect as"Environmentalist Wackos". Conservatives generally consider homosexuals as unnormal, sick and pervert. And Iraq&palestine as a country that needs to be carpet bombed. And dont forget "dont ever trust a muslim, trust only the ones with a bullethole between the eyes"

You just described about half of all Republicans ( or 50% of 30% of a America. What's that, 15% of America?). The rest of them, and you may not believe this but take my word as someone who lives among them ( tounge_o.gif ), most resemble normal human beings in that they display compassion, empathy, and occasional cognitive ability. I'd say that when you get right down to it, most Americans are just too damn busy with their lives to focus into politics as closely as folks like us do- the minutae of campaigns elude them, and they vote based on principles they were raised with and what they see on network news in October. As for the die-hard GOP types, I don't think that they're any worse on a relative scale than extreme leftists- the only difference is that your system is slanted much further to the left end of the political spectrum than ours is, and thus you have become innured to the extreme left, and we have become innured to the extreme right. Neither is much worse than the other in policy terms (read: both are extremely bad), but our respective political and social indoctrinations have set different tolerances for different political orientations. To me (moderate with a shade of social libertarianism), cries of "environmentalist wacko" and "feminazi" are functionally no different than "pseudo-fascist"; it's all just partisan, wedge-tactics bullshit and not to be given credence.

Quote[/b] ]Tough slogan Albert. Pretty polarising, pretty generalising. Yeah maybe but right now it is pretty easy to define a general profile of "the republican voter". And surprising enough in most cases this voter isnt very moderate, but has extreme perceptions.

And it is scary that 50% of americans are indeed republican voters.

Correct, you are overgeneralizing. Alternately, you are also incorrect: only about 30% of Americans describe themselves as 'Republican'. Your profile of 'the republican voter' is about as accurate as my profile of 'the socialist voter' in your country might be, should I piece one together based on wonderful sources like World Socialist Web Site, the left's version of Free Republic (*shiver*).

Quote[/b] ]One may say that this shouting out loud is a general way of americans celebrating their freedom of thought and freedom of speech. That is just the way they are and after a election they will be good friends again with the world. ... But the current amount of insults targeting europe and the islam, homosexuals, working women and people that support gun laws just goes too far. Especially when these voters openly say what should happen to these "people".

Reading internet sites such as "thefrenchsuck.com" (thegermanssuck.com) and listening to radio talkmasters such as Rush Limbaugh one gets the impression that mixed up with all the humor is also a serious message. And this message is often a bit too extreme.

Chalk it up to free speech; I like to gauge how well our 1st Ammendment is doing by counting up all the different sources available that the mainstream would violently disagree with. Germany has its neo-Nazi types, but you don't hear about them because their in-country websites get shut down, and their rallies get water cannoned. All societies have their intellectual and political troglodytes, it's just that our society doesn't deal with them by suppressing their voice. Your last line sums it up: "a bit too extreme". A bit too extreme compared to what? Your own beliefs? Tough break, they can say whatever they want, and you can either disagree or ignore them.

This illustrates that you haven't been paying very close attention to American culture until recently. What you are witnessing right now is child's play compared to the wonderland that was American political discourse a decade ago. You're used to a political environment that includes parties ranging from leftish to very left, with a few ultra-right and ultra-left comedy options thrown in with a clear understanding that they are not to be taken seriously; things in America are different, and your reaction to it is a clear demonstration that you have become accustomed to a certain homogeneity of opinion.

Not to say that folks like Rush and the dogmatic French-haters aren't idiots. They are. But then again, why get bent of shape over idiots?

Quote[/b] ]Generalising? certainly I am generalising republicans a bit too much, but the amount of disgusting comments coming from US-teritory, from people free to speak their mind, is just too much for me. I realy feel insulted and my sense of humor is gone.

Umm, sorry? But on the upside, now you know how Americans felt all through the '90s when backhanded disdain for American culture and values was en vogue throughout Europe.

Quote[/b] ]Whatever happens to the election in the US cant change my attitude right now. I am no longer tolerant towards americans telling me "i am just kidding"

Well, let me tell you this: overgeneralizing Republicans and Americans like you just did in this post makes you just a very little bit better than those you oppose- I'm not kidding. You're allowing your distaste for a minority cloud your attitudes toward the majority, and that's one of the things that makes dittoheads, Jesus freaks and gun nuts so bad to begin with, right?

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My, my, what hard text we have here. And I thought that the almost instant global communications we have today would prevent global disagreements, which sometimes lead to global wars. I might have to revise that opinion in the future.

Anyway, shout into each other's mouths as much as you want to, but as long as a man isn't free to make his own decisions without some idiot commie, redneck or moderate politician interfering, the world will stay screwed. You are all missing the obvious conclusion that all ideologies are bad. Abolish all ideology, do not believe in anything and you shall be free.

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