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Acecombat

Blue helmets as cannon fodder

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Nice article at guardian ...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1149633,00.html

A peacekeeper was killed this month in Afghanistan. However tragic, it is not unusual for soldiers of peace to die on a tour of duty. Since 1990, in missions in Sierra Leone and Liberia alone, more than 1,200 peacekeepers died. What was unusual about the death of this soldier is that it made CNN news. He was Canadian. The 1,200 dead peacekeepers in west Africa were Nigerians.

<span style='color:red'>Of the 191 UN member states, 94 contribute 39,329 troops to 13 different missions. <span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>The overwhelming majority are from the UN's poorest members. Pakistan, Bangladesh, Nigeria, India and Ghana are the five main contributors, providing 18,745 troops. The five permanent members of the security council (the US, Britain, France, Russia and China), who effectively ordered all those blue helmets dispatched, provide 1,030 troops in total</span></span>

Poor countries willingly send their soldiers to dangerous places because, for them, peacekeeping is a lucrative business. At home soldiers cost money, but as blue helmets they generate income, about $1,000 per soldier per month. Blue helmets have become an <span style='color:red'><span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>EXPORT PRODUCT</span></span>

<span style='color:blue'>The US has deployed a quarter of a million troops in Iraq and several thousand in Afghanistan. To serve the UN last year, it sent <span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>two</span> soldiers. The UK does slightly better: <span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>415</span> British troops currently wear blue helmets. </span>

Where is the UN headed is there any positive role left in peacekeping IF it doesnt bears any prospective economical outcomes it seems developed countries are shunning it and leaving the poor ones to do the job?

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That´s nothing new. African peacekeepers are really bad equipped therefore I try to help them whenever I can. Asian forces in general have a high standard of weaponary and training. Malayans do a pretty good job, so do other asian forces I had the pleasure to serve with. They are very professional and they take that experiences they make home and react quick to situations. My respect.

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Where have you served Bals mind sharing it with us ?

I cant even imagine a African peac keeping army somehow crazy_o.gif , i mean theres too much on their plat to go elsewhere.

Out of all the other ones pak and India seem to be the good choices for this they are better trained and equipped and hav seen skirmishs/firfights at their own borders so they might have the exprience too.

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Acecombat, those numbers are dead wrong. The thing is that all the bigger missions are not handled directly by the UN but delegated to a military organization such as SFOR, KFOR or EUFOR. They have their own military command structure while only answering politically to the UN. They're not technically "blue helmets", but they are indeed peace keeping forces on a UN mandate.

For instance, right now there are 30,000 peace keepers in Kosovo. At its height it was almost 60,000. Kosovo has a population of about 2 million. You can compare it to Iraq where 140,00 soldiers are in place and you have a population of 24 million.

So the numbers the article you quote is giving are very misleading. Overall in the world there are several hundred of thousand of peace keepers that report in one way or another to the UN.

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Well to be quite honest, this issue of peacekeeping as a business is probably not unwelcome to many soldiers in Africa who may make good money doing this....or maybe not. It depends on how its done.

Whatever the case I think it is shameful how much the US has withdrawn from UN responsibilities, but in large part this is due to our preoccupation with Iraq and Afghanistan where we are short of troops.

One country that really needs to do its part is China in my opinion.

Chris G.

aka-Miles Teg<GD>

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One country that really needs to do its part is China in my opinion.

Chris G.

aka-Miles Teg<GD>

what part? to send troops to Iraq or to send out blue hemlets where ever they need?

if you are talking about the secound one, we have already sent or though actural numbers unknow, and they are secound lines support troops whos not major in combat missions

p.s. it wont be strange if UN itself hire mercenary under the table

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will they? rock.gif

anyways, there is no country like UN......(dont ask me , Tom Clancy think the same)

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Quote[/b] ]it wont be strange if UN itself hire mercenary under the table

Not that I ever heard off that. Never met mercenaries on the UN side. The UN infact does not need mercenaries as there are lots of troop contributing countries.

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Quote[/b] ]Where have you served Bals mind sharing it with us ?

At african continent:

Somalia

Rwanda

Nigeria

Congo

These were longer missions. I´ve been to other regions also but I don´t count in 2 to 4 weeks stays in african countries as "missions".

Outside africa:

White russia

Turkmenistan

and some others.

If you should have any specific questions just ask. Ran has been to Congo several times also.

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Quote[/b] ]Where have you served Bals mind sharing  it with us ?

At african continent:

Somalia

Rwanda

Nigeria

Congo

These were longer missions. I´ve been to other regions also but I don´t count in 2 to 4 weeks stays in african countries as "missions".

Outside africa:

White russia

Turkmenistan

and some others.

If you should have any specific questions just ask. Ran has been to Congo several times also.

Nice so youve been places biggrin_o.gif

In Somalia you mean you were there during 1993 right ? Whn the BHD incident took place?

Apart from that can you mainly like describe to us non-army folks how the selection is done and stuff , do you volunteer to go yourself or the your own national army decide whether you go or not? Plus what are the incentives for a soldier going to PK'ing for a soldier?

Also who pays for your ammo and stuff the army or UN? Since the Un already pays the country i am guessing the country itself provides right?

@ Denoir : Those numbers are by the newspapers source so i am not sure whether thy were right or wrong , knowing guardian i think theyre usually ok....

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@ Denoir : Those numbers are by the newspapers source so i am not sure whether thy were right or wrong , knowing guardian i think theyre usually ok....

The numbers are technically correct but give the entirely wrong picture. This is because all the serious peace keeping is delegated to military organizations rather than the UN. For instance now in Congo ("Operation Artémis") - it ain't UN, it's EUFOR, one component of the European Rapid Reaction Force.

The people there are not smurfs ("blue helmets") but they are indeed peace keepers on a UN mandate. And that's the way it is done today. The UN isn't a military organization and it's not suited for organizing larger military operations. That's why they delegate it to other countries/organizations.

The article you posted counts the smurfs only, which gives a skewed and incorrect picture.

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Quote[/b] ]In Somalia you mean you were there during 1993 right ? Whn the BHD incident took place?

Yes. We had complete coverage of the incident that happened on the 3rd october 1993. Let me get it straight. The movie is fiction.

From official UN inquiry report:

Quote[/b] ]A group of 40 Delta Force, Special Forces and about 75 Rangers set off to try to capture Somali leaders supporting General Mohammed Farah Aideed, the Mogadishu warlord, who were meeting in a house near the centre of town.

US troops took hostages and murdered wounded Somalis and a prisoner. They also used the bodies of Somalis as barricades. Far from the official US version of the mission (that it was not intended to kill anyone) helicopter gunships began the ill-fated raid by firing anti-tank missiles into houses. Ambassador Robert Oakley, the US special representative to Somalia, is saying that more than 1,000 Somalis were killed. Investigations have revealed that US troops abandoned their rules of engagement—to fire only when threatened by fire—and shot down every Somali they saw, including women and children.

Neither he, nor the UN Special Representative in Somalia, a retired US Admiral, Jonathan Howe, had been informed about the Delta Force raid. Nor was the UN consulted when the US military decided to hunt down Gen Aideed.

Backed by 17 helicopter gunships, they stormed the building where the Somali leaders were meeting and took 24 prisoners. They planned to drive the three miles back to the US base but could not get out of the area. First one and then another Blackhawk helicopter was shot down. Without a back-up force the convoy ended up going in circles, trapped by hundreds of Somali gunmen firing AK47s and rocket grenades from rooftops or moving with the crowds.

Some of the vehicles were almost out of ammunition. They had expended thousands of rounds. The back ends of the remaining trucks and Humvees in the lost convoy were slick with blood. Chunks of viscera clung to floors and inner walls.

The second Humvee in line was dragging an axle and was being pushed from behind by the five-ton truck behind it. Another Humvee had three flat tyres and two dozen bullet holes.

Seal Sgt Howard Wasdin, who had been shot in both legs, had his legs draped up over the dash and stretched out on the hood. Yet another Humvee had a grenade hole in the side and four flat tyres. They were shooting at everything now. They had abandoned their new mission (to rescue the downed helicopter pilots). Now they were fighting just to stay alive as the convoy wandered into one ambush after another, trying to find its way back to base.

Dale Sizemore, a young Ranger, describes blasting at everything they saw. Rules of engagement were off. Sizemore saw young boys, seven and eight-year- olds, some with weapons, some without. He shot them all.

In one incident Rangers took a family hostage. When one of the women started screaming at the Americans she was shot dead.

In another incident a Somali prisoner was allegedly shot dead when he refused to stop praying out loud. Another was clubbed into silence. The killer is not identified.

While Canada, Italy and Belgium all held inquiries into the excesses of their troops in Somalia and even put some of them on trial, the US has never held any public investigation or reprimanded any of its commanders or troops although Les Aspin, the then US Defence Secretary, resigned some time afterwards.

Forget the myths from the movie. It is not true.

Quote[/b] ]Apart from that can you mainly like describe to us non-army folks how the selection is done and stuff , do you volunteer to go yourself or the your own national army decide whether you go or not?

I joined the Bundeswehr for my regular service and was grade 1 fit. So I joined mountain rangers or Gebirgsjäger. I finished my basic 3 month training and at that time there were ongoing discussions about the unit I was in joining UN mission in Somalia. As we are KRK force (Krisenreaktionskräfte) our alert level is always higher than regular units one. Gebirgsjäger have a hard training and are specialized for special tasks and mission on all terrains except water biggrin_o.gif

As I liked the idea of taking part in a major military operation under UN mandate I volunteered and was taken to selection process that included, psycholigical tests, field test, endurance tests and special combat and weapons training and extensive training on how to act as a peacekeeper. This training took about 3 more months , including lots of preparations for the mission in Somalia, like language basics, civil structure , religiouse issues, traditions, weaponary....

Most of the volunteers were sorted out as requirenments were very though. We had Major´s going home from selection process because they were not able to handle simulated critical situations.

Ok long story first mission. After the first mission I got back to my camp where I felt somehow missplaced after a while. I had a good group but it´s somehow very different to return to regular service after war missions. I served on 10 months within my unit when I was contacted by a civil UN employee whom I met in Somalia. He offered me to cometo New York to do tests for direct UN core force. I did so, stood the tests and was "borrowed" from the Bundeswehr to UN core force.

That opened doors to missions where BW did not take part in but I was able to as I was not formaly bound to BW anymore.

Still I got all equipment from BW and do trainings and educations for BW. I have my place in both.

The incentives for me are to lengthen peoples lifes biggrin_o.gif

Serious, if a mission results in the survival of civillians over the period when I´m there I´m happy. I have no "change the world" ideas.

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The book (written before the movie) agrees with the UN report by about 80%, minus the gruesome details of executions etc. smile_o.gif

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Quote[/b] ]two soldiers. The UK does slightly better: 415 British troops currently wear blue helmets.

Considering the British sent about 200,000 people to fight the gulf war 2 (As far as i know from what the BBC said), 415 troops is not bad. Also, as is being seen in Iraq now, the British are more experienced at Peacekeeping, with theatres such as ireland behind them. The US military is not really built for that kind of operation, it would seem. This just doesn't look like something they are good at.

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Ok denoir i get your point , so still how many US soldiers are operating under such UN mandates? rock.gif

Bals Thanks for the insight i never knew that stuff , i guess i should hav read the book then. But damn that movie was the complete opposite of what they showed crazy_o.gif

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Ok denoir i get your point , so still how many US soldiers are operating under such UN mandates?  rock.gif

I don't know, but I'm sure a list can be found somwhere on the web. In Kosovo IIRC there are something like 5,000 US peace keepers working for KFOR and in Bosnia something like 2,000 for SFOR. (Both SFOR and KFOR are there on UN mandates).

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Isn't Korea a UN thing? Or am I just stupid?

Just stupid.  biggrin_o.gif

All i know is that North korea = bad South korea = ok

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Quote[/b] ]Considering the British sent about 200,000 people to fight the gulf war 2

200.000 men to the current Iraq war? More like 20.000 ,even the U.S only deployed about 250.000 men at the onset of the war and an x percentage of that force were supporting troops rather than all combat troops.And that was the force used to take Iraq ,much of that force already left Iraq.

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Quote[/b] ]two soldiers. The UK does slightly better: 415 British troops currently wear blue helmets.

Considering the British sent about 200,000 people to fight the gulf war 2 (As far as i know from what the BBC said), 415 troops is not bad. Also, as is being seen in Iraq now, the British are more experienced at Peacekeeping, with theatres such as ireland behind them. The US military is not really built for that kind of operation, it would seem. This just doesn't look like something they are good at.

That your expert well researched opinion?

The entire regular force of the British Army is around the 100,000 mark.

Ireland is spelt with an capital I and if you want to be technical, British forces never conducted operations in Ireland.

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Quote[/b] ]In Somalia you mean you were there during 1993 right ? Whn the BHD incident took place?

Yes. We had complete coverage of the incident that happened on the 3rd october 1993. Let me get it straight. The movie is fiction.

From official UN inquiry report:

Quote[/b] ]A group of 40 Delta Force, Special Forces and about 75 Rangers set off to try to capture Somali leaders supporting General Mohammed Farah Aideed, the Mogadishu warlord, who were meeting in a house near the centre of town.

US troops took hostages and murdered wounded Somalis and a prisoner. They also used the bodies of Somalis as barricades. Far from the official US version of the mission (that it was not intended to kill anyone) helicopter gunships began the ill-fated raid by firing anti-tank missiles into houses. Ambassador Robert Oakley, the US special representative to Somalia, is saying that more than 1,000 Somalis were killed. Investigations have revealed that US troops abandoned their rules of engagement—to fire only when threatened by fire—and shot down every Somali they saw, including women and children.

Neither he, nor the UN Special Representative in Somalia, a retired US Admiral, Jonathan Howe, had been informed about the Delta Force raid. Nor was the UN consulted when the US military decided to hunt down Gen Aideed.

Backed by 17 helicopter gunships, they stormed the building where the Somali leaders were meeting and took 24 prisoners. They planned to drive the three miles back to the US base but could not get out of the area. First one and then another Blackhawk helicopter was shot down. Without a back-up force the convoy ended up going in circles, trapped by hundreds of Somali gunmen firing AK47s and rocket grenades from rooftops or moving with the crowds.

Some of the vehicles were almost out of ammunition. They had expended thousands of rounds. The back ends of the remaining trucks and Humvees in the lost convoy were slick with blood. Chunks of viscera clung to floors and inner walls.

The second Humvee in line was dragging an axle and was being pushed from behind by the five-ton truck behind it. Another Humvee had three flat tyres and two dozen bullet holes.

Seal Sgt Howard Wasdin, who had been shot in both legs, had his legs draped up over the dash and stretched out on the hood. Yet another Humvee had a grenade hole in the side and four flat tyres. They were shooting at everything now. They had abandoned their new mission (to rescue the downed helicopter pilots). Now they were fighting just to stay alive as the convoy wandered into one ambush after another, trying to find its way back to base.

Dale Sizemore, a young Ranger, describes blasting at everything they saw. Rules of engagement were off. Sizemore saw young boys, seven and eight-year- olds, some with weapons, some without. He shot them all.

In one incident Rangers took a family hostage. When one of the women started screaming at the Americans she was shot dead.

In another incident a Somali prisoner was allegedly shot dead when he refused to stop praying out loud. Another was clubbed into silence. The killer is not identified.

While Canada, Italy and Belgium all held inquiries into the excesses of their troops in Somalia and even put some of them on trial, the US has never held any public investigation or reprimanded any of its commanders or troops although Les Aspin, the then US Defence Secretary, resigned some time afterwards.

Forget the myths from the movie. It is not true.

Quote[/b] ]Apart from that can you mainly like describe to us non-army folks how the selection is done and stuff , do you volunteer to go yourself or the your own national army decide whether you go or not?

I joined the Bundeswehr for my regular service and was grade 1 fit. So I joined mountain rangers or Gebirgsjäger. I finished my basic 3 month training and at that time there were ongoing discussions about the unit I was in joining UN mission in Somalia. As we are KRK force (Krisenreaktionskräfte) our alert level is always higher than regular units one. Gebirgsjäger have a hard training and are specialized for special tasks and mission on all terrains except water biggrin_o.gif

As I liked the idea of taking part in a major military operation under UN mandate I volunteered and was taken to selection process that included, psycholigical tests, field test, endurance tests and special combat and weapons training and extensive training on how to act as a peacekeeper. This training took about 3 more months , including lots of preparations for the mission in Somalia, like language basics, civil structure , religiouse issues, traditions, weaponary....

Most of the volunteers were sorted out as requirenments were very though. We had Major´s going home from selection process because they were not able to handle simulated critical situations.

Ok long story first mission. After the first mission I got back to my camp where I felt somehow missplaced after a while. I had a good group but it´s somehow very different to return to regular service after war missions. I served on 10 months within my unit when I was contacted by a civil UN employee whom I met in Somalia. He offered me to cometo New York to do tests for direct UN core force. I did so, stood the tests and was "borrowed" from the Bundeswehr to UN core force.

That opened doors to missions where BW did not take part in but I was able to as I was not formaly bound to BW anymore.

Still I got all equipment from BW and do trainings and educations for BW. I have my place in both.

The incentives for me are to lengthen peoples lifes biggrin_o.gif

Serious, if a mission results in the survival of civillians over the period when I´m there I´m happy. I have no "change the world" ideas.

Balshiow:( Can you give us the full txt from the UN report? While I was aware of how the mission actually happened, I think you will find that many here are unaware, prefering the hollywood version. I recommend starting a thread on this!

Are you in a position to find the UN report on the 12 US Marines sent into Rwanda on day 3 of the Massacre? I have read a report that said they confirmed to the US govt that 'genocide' was taking place' and that they became involved in a 14hour firefight to extract themselves.. " We dont need to take the bridge. We can just walk across the bodies..."

Then just 1 day later, the US vetoed any involvment by the UN (they obviously still had Mogidishu clear in their minds...)

and within 3 weeks over 800,000 people had been killed. Apparently It has been proven by the book written by the UN commander on the ground there that if he had been allowed to use all the resources that the UN had in Africa at the time, he could have stopped the massacre. He called for re-inforcements WEEKS before the massacre began because they were calling out the names and addresses of people to be killed on a local radio station, and thousands of people were trying to enter the UN compound for safety. Boy, the Americans sure have 'vetoed' millions of people to death since 1945 eh! mad_o.gifcrazy_o.gif

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