Bush vietnam service record released

[Pathy 0]

I wouldnt blame ANYONE for missing 'Nam if they could....just about the most pointless war ive ever studied....they knew they couldnt win, they just didnt want to be seen pull out....the bombing raids on the north were more to prop up failing morale than inflicting dammage......

Anyway, i wonder, if Bush hadnt had a 'nam veteran running against him, would this record have been released?

[Pipski 0]

No, never. It wasn't bragged about at the last election so I doubt they'd be happy to bring it out this time if they could avoid it.

Quote[/b] ]I wouldnt blame ANYONE for missing 'Nam if they could

Me neither, except that to miss it he had to send someone else in his place. Were his parents your parents he would have been sent. (I could be wrong, that's based on the assumption that your parents aren't millionaires )

[walker 0]

Anyway, i wonder, if Bush hadnt had a 'nam veteran running against him, would this record have been released?

Hi Pathy

As far as I can see all Presidents of the US with the singular exception of George Bush Jnr. have permited full disclosure of their Millitary Sevice Records.

George Bush Jnr. is the only one to have failed to do so. Unless you know of another president of the US who also held back his service record?

Kind Regards Walker

[Schoeler 0]

I wouldnt blame ANYONE for missing 'Nam if they could....just about the most pointless war ive ever studied....they knew they couldnt win, they just didnt want to be seen pull out....the bombing raids on the north were more to prop up failing morale than inflicting dammage......

Anyway, i wonder, if Bush hadnt had a 'nam veteran running against him, would this record have been released?

I think the concern (and the insult) here is not that Bush failed to serve in a heroic manner, or even that he was awol from the unit he did dodge, I mean serve in. The concern is that he paints himself to be a great military leader and a veteran, calling himself "a war President" and dressing up like a fighter jock and then grandstanding on the deck of a supercarrier, all the while having lied and covered up the actual nature of his service.

Clinton dodged the draft, but he never claimed to be a great military man, or decieve anyone about serving.

[m21man 0]

Quote[/b] ]Me neither, except that to miss it he had to send someone else in his place. Were his parents your parents he would have been sent. (I could be wrong, that's based on the assumption that your parents aren't millionaires)

I certainly wouldn't dodge the draft if one came up.

Quote[/b] ]Clinton dodged the draft, but he never claimed to be a great military man, or decieve anyone about serving.

No, he said that he "loathed the military", and then was placed in command of it .

[Tex -USMC- 0]

No, he said that he "loathed the military", and then was placed in command of it .

He did an alright job of it- after all, it was the Clinton military that won the second Gulf War, just like it was the Reagan military that won the first Gulf War.

[m21man 0]

Quote[/b] ]He did an alright job of it- after all, it was the Clinton military that won the second Gulf War, just like it was the Reagan military that won the first Gulf War.

And who has been giving lots of spending increases to the military lately, hmm?

[Schoeler 0]

Its a good thing he did, he's got us way overextended.

[Tex -USMC- 0]

Quote[/b] ]He did an alright job of it- after all, it was the Clinton military that won the second Gulf War, just like it was the Reagan military that won the first Gulf War.

And who has been giving lots of spending increases to the military lately, hmm?

Really- a Cold War superpower spends a decade trending down its military spending after there suddenly isn't another Cold War superpower to fight? Perish the thought. Even during the Clinton years, the US was responsible for nearly 40%, 40%, of the entire world's military spending. We researched, commissioned, and stockpiled all the really cool wonder weapons of the last few years (JDAMs, UAVs, etc) during the Clinton years, and ultimately came out of the Clinton administration with a trimmer fighting force that is significantly better able to handle threats like, I don't know, rogue states, than a Fulda Gap-style US military that the Pentagon has come to habitually crave. Now tell me, what exactly happened between 2000 and early 2003 that changed the US military from a direly underfunded suckfest to the end-all bad ass motherfucker that rolled Saddam Hussein? And of course we can't forget Afghanistan. Did Donald Rumsfeld go in there with some chewing gum and baling wire and personally patch up our AFV's? I think not.

However, to be perfectly fair, the clearest proof that the Clinton military is what has been fighting for us the last few years lies in the flaws that the Clinton military has. During the 90's we spent a bit too much time focussing on the cool whiz-bang technology stuff, and less time on the nuts and bolts of a standard mechanized infantry division. That's why in 2003, Marines going into Iraq were using duct tape to keep the plastic segments of their SAW and M9 magazines from falling right out of their weapons. At the small unit level, the funding for the basic infantryman was hurt the most (especially in non-Army branches like *ahem* the Marines) in the Clinton military, and that has in no way improved under Bush. I'll leave this with Dick Cheney's opinion:

Quote[/b] ]In Charlotte, Cheney stressed that decisions made today in the military affect its readiness 10 to 25 years in the future. A president has to go to war with what his predecessors leave him, Cheney said.

After the United States won the Persian Gulf War, Cheney said one of his first calls as defense secretary was to former President Ronald Reagan, to thank him for rebuilding the country’s military in the 1980s.

[ralphwiggum 6]

Quote[/b] ]He did an alright job of it- after all, it was the Clinton military that won the second Gulf War, just like it was the Reagan military that won the first Gulf War.

And who has been giving lots of spending increases to the military lately, hmm?

you mean spending increases that happened due to some war that would not have happened in reasonable sense?

[Balschoiw 0]

just curiouse :

How much money has been fixed to military contracts under Bush ? Not only for this year but summed up as the bill will be printed in some years I guess. How much money is it ? Don´t forget to add at least 20 - 60 percent to what is written in contracts as it´s common that contract prices are not real prices.

Anyone got an overview ?

[Acecombat 0]

<u>An Open Letter from Michael Moore to George "I'm a War President!" Bush

</u>

February 11, 2004 (67th anniversary of the Great Flint Sit-Down Strike)

Dear Mr. Bush,

Thank you for providing the illegible Xeroxed partial payroll sheets (or whatever they were) yesterday covering a few of your days in the National Guard. Now we know that, not only didn't you complete your tour of duty, you were actually paid for work you never did. Did you cash those checks? Wouldn't that be, um, illegal?

Watching the press aggressively demand the truth from your press secretary -- and refusing to accept the deceit, the dodging, and the cover-up -- was a sight to behold, something we really haven't seen since you took office.

More than one reporter pointed out that those pieces of paper your press secretary waved at them yesterday mean nothing. Even if they aren't forged documents, getting paid does not necessarily mean you showed up to do your duties. As retired Army Col. Dan Smith, a 26-year veteran, told the AP:

"Pay records don't mean anything except that you're in or you're out," said Smith. "It doesn't necessarily reflect what duty you've actually performed because pay records simply record your unit of assignment and then all of your pay and benefits per pay period."

Mr. Bush, this issue is not going to go away -- and I think yesterday's actions just dug you into a deeper hole. You're probably wondering why the heck this story won't just die. You probably thought that after I brought it up last month and then got slammed by Peter Jennings for uttering the "d" word, the whole matter would just disappear as fast as bag of blow being thrown out the window of a speeding car on a deserted Maine highway.

But your "desertion" didn't go away -- and here's the reason why. You have sent countless numbers of our sons and daughters in the National Guard to their deaths in the last 11 months. You did this while misleading their parents and the nation with bogus lies about weapons of mass destruction and scary phony Saddam ties to al Qaeda. You sent them off to a never-ending war so that your benefactors at Halliburton and the oil companies could line their pockets. And then you had the audacity to prance around in a soldier's uniform on an aircraft carrier proclaiming "Mission Accomplished" -- while the cameras from your re-election campaign ad agency rolled.

THAT is what makes this whole business of you being AWOL so despicable, and makes the grief-stricken relatives want to turn away from you in disgust. The reason your skipping-out on your enlistment didn't matter in the 2000 election was because we were not at war. Being stuck in a deadly, daily quagmire now in 2004 makes your military history-fiction and your fly-boy costume VERY relevant.

You still have not answered the questions surrounding your National Guard "service." Let me repeat them as simply as I can for you (all of them based on the investigative work of the Associated Press and the Boston Globe):

1. How were you able to jump ahead of 500 other applicants to get into the Texas Air National Guard, thus guaranteeing you would not have to go to Vietnam? What calls did your father (who was then a United States Congressman representing Texas) make on your behalf for you to get this assignment?

2. Why were you grounded (not allowed to fly) after you either failed your physical or failed to take it in July 1972? Was there a reason you were afraid to take the physical? Or, did you take it and not pass it? If so, why didn't you pass it? Was it the urine test? The records show that, after the Guard spent years and lots of money training you to be a pilot, you never flew for the rest of your time in the Guard. Why?

3. Can you produce one person who can verify that he served with you in the Guard during the year that your Texas commanders said you did not show up? Why have yo u failed to bring forth anyone who served with you in the Guard while you were in Alabama? Why hasn't ONE SINGLE PERSON come forward?

4. Can you tell us what you did when you claim to have shown up in Alabama for Guard duty? What were you duties? You were grounded, so what did they have you do instead?

5. Where are the sign-up sheets that would have your name and service number on them for each weekend you showed up? Aaron Brown on CNN told us how, when he was in the reserves, he had to sign in each time he reported, and his guest from the Washington Post said, that's right, and there would be "four copies of that record" in the files of various agencies. Will you ask those agencies to release those records?

6. If you were in fact paid for that time when you apparently went AWOL, will you authorize the IRS to release your 1972-73 tax returns?

7. How did you get an honorable discharge? What strings were pulled? Who called who?

Look, I'm sorry to have put you through all this. I was just goofing around when I made that comment about wanting to see a debate between the general and the deserter. I had no idea that it would lead to this. And there you were, having to suffer through Tim Russert on Sunday, saying weird things like "I'm a war president!" I guess you believe that, or you want us to believe that. Americans have never voted out a Commander-in-Chief during a war. I guess that's what you're hoping for. You need the war.

But we don't. And our troops in the National Guard don't either. I know you see the writing on the wall, so why not come clean now? We are a forgiving people, and though you will not be returned to White House, you will find us grateful for a little bit of truth. Answer our questions, apologize to the nation, and bring our kids home.

Yours,

Michael Moore

mmflint@aol.com

www.michaelmoore.com

----------------------------------------------

Found this thought i'd post it for you guys

[Schoeler 0]

Varoooooooom!!!

Know what that sound is?

Its the shit hitting the fan. The smoking gun came out today with a witness, a respected Colonel in the Air National Guard who overheard a 1997 conference call between then Governor Bush's Chief of Staff and the General in charge of the Texas Air National Guard demanding that the General destroy any records that might embarrass the Governor. Lo and behold, this same very respected and highly credible witness saw the record thrown in the trash the next day.

Can anyone say Democratic landslide victory?

[Tex -USMC- 0]

Desertergate? Got a ring to it.

edit: have you got a link?

[ralphwiggum 6]

nah, ANG-Gate

I found Bush' dental record mentioned by Whitehouse.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/bushteeth1.html

[Blake 0]

Better bring his dog tags for next press conference too!

[Schoeler 0]

Chris Matthews interviewed the guy tonight on Hardball.  Here is an online article:

Quote[/b] ]Former National Guard officer says Bush aide scrubbed military records

By Linda L. Starr and Bev Conover

Download a .pdf

file for printing

November 4, 2000—Here comes the other shoe to the denials and cries of “desperation†from the George W. Bush camp: A former officer in the Texas National Guard says an aide to George W. Bush scrubbed Bush’s military records to get rid of the disparities between those files and an account of Bush’s military service in his official biography.

Bill Burkett, a former lieutenant colonel in the Guard, said, “As the State Plans Officer for the Texas National Guard, I was on full-time duty at Camp Mabry when [bush aide] Dan Bartlett was cleansing the George W Bush file prior to G.W.'s presidential announcement. For most soldiers at Camp Mabry, this was a generally known event. The archives were closely scrutinized to make sure that the Bush autobiography plans and the record did not directly contradict each other. In essence it was the script of the autobiography which Dan Bartlett and his small team used to scrub a file to be released. This effort was further involved by General Daniel James and Chief of Staff William W. Goodwin at Camp Mabry.â€

Burkett stated, “I knew one person who worked within the records scrub who commented to me, while at the smoke area, that the Bush files really showed some problems with his ‘blue-blood service record.’â€

He maintains the question of whether Bush completed his military obligations can be easily verified. “In fact, I have been disturbed by the FOIA (Freedom of Information Act) material published that the two critical elements to answer [the] questions were not included.â€

Burkett contends, “The review of military personnel files is very basic. Within the review and audit of a file, however, certain critical documents become the spine upon which all else hangs.

Alluding to the questions raised by Senators Bob Kerrey and Daniel Inouye at a press conference last Thursday, Burkett said, “In answer to Senator Kerrey's comments, finding the answer to this issue is very simple. The Bush campaign staff can simply provide the pay records and detailed retirement points records for Lieutenant Bush. Until that is done, everything else is purely speculation as to when and where George W. Bush was during his obligation period. A unit technician’s personal notes about duty performance is not official. Handwritten and scribbled notations are also not official. The pay records, however, simply specify without a doubt and officially, when Lt. Bush performed ordered duty and that the US Air Force paid him for it.â€

Said Burkett, “Mr. Dan Bartlett was responsible for assembling the military files for the media's review. He is also the point man to the questions on this issue. Why has Mr. Bartlett not compiled and shared these critical pieces of the Governor's military service record? Was it an omission of the Freedom of Information Act file or does it not exist? I am sure that the Pentagon would be happy to quickly access the Air Force Reserve personnel files in order to clarify this issue for the American public. It would be a disaster to withhold this basic information until after an election and then again hold the American presidency hostage with lawsuits, investigations and inquiries for his [bush’s] term.

As for what the obligations of a Guardsman are and the punishments that may be meted out if those obligations aren’t met, Burke said:

“Readiness is both a personal and unit responsibility. The Texas Code of Military Justice [a State Statute and a version of the US Code of Military Justice] defines the attendance requirements of each soldier. Within this statute, there are also other charges that directly apply whenever a soldier does not show up for a scheduled drill, active duty training or other special training as ordered.

“The most basic of those punishable acts is failure to obey a lawful order.

“The military operates upon three basic tenets. First is duty. Duty is based upon individual conviction, discipline, and character. It follows that when ordered to duty of any type, the individual soldier will have prepared him or herself with training and logistical preparedness.

“The second tenet is honor. Within this tenet lie the personal characteristics of telling the exact and whole truth, sharing of factual information and refraining from dishonest and distracting actions such as rumors, innuendo and supposition.

“Finally the tenet of country. This tenet captures the selflessness of soldiering and leadership. It places the symbolic flag of the nation and its needs above the needs of oneself. Therefore individuals are expected to care for their military mission and soldiers, sailors and airmen before themselves. It places teamwork above individual accomplishment, and nation building above career building.

Not following a lawful order is a court martial offense. Absent without leave is a court martial offense. But it also a court martial offense for supervisors and commanders to knowingly and fraudulently provide pay (either cash or retirement points) to non-performing individuals.â€

Okay I just checked and this guy is not the same whistleblower matthews interviewed. appraently there are two Colonels singing now. MSNBC hasn't updated the new on their site to include the interview yet.

[Schoeler 0]

Strike that, it is the same guy, but here is the updated story:

Quote[/b] ]Were George W. Bush's National Guard Records Scrubbed?

BUZZFLASH EXCLUSIVE: After Memorial Day, It's Time To Ask, Once Again, About Bush's National Guard Record and Why He Ran Away From Service in Vietnam -- Oh, By The Way, Guess Who is Running the Air National Guard Now?

May 28, 2002

A BUZZFLASH NEWS ANALYSIS

Pausing to Reflect After Memorial Day: Were George W. Bush's National Guard Records Scrubbed? Bill Burkett Should Know. The Nation Deserves the Truth.

(See http://199.96.2.183/contributors/2002/05/24_supreme.html to understand the context of this letter to BuzzFlash.com from Bill Burkett. It is also recommended that you read these two important postings from the Democrats.com archives: http://www.democrats.com/display.cfm?id=171 and

http://www.democrats.com/display.cfm?id=154)

Additional BuzzFlash Note: Major General Daniel James was head of the Texas National Guard at the time of the alleged scrubbing of George W. Bush's National Guard records. He was appointed by George W. Bush to be commander of the nation's Air National Guard -- and was confirmed by the Senate last week.

A Letter to BuzzFlash.com from Bill Burkett, formerly of the Texas National Guard:

* * *

In regards to the BuzzFlash contibutor piece, "SUPREME IRONY" (http://www.buzzflash.com/contributors/2002/05/24_Supreme.html)

This BuzzFlash reader gets it closer to right than anyone has since 1998 when I broke the Bush AWOL story as a whistleblower.

I hope that more information will be coming soon as a few journalists are now asking questions that should have been asked in 1998.

But now let me continue the irony one more level and this-like the 9/11 briefings to Bush - is well known fact.

When Walter Robinson of the Boston Globe broke the story about the gap in the service record, dozens of Texas National Guardsmen broke ranks and reported information to the Austin American Statesman giving more details. The information to Dick Stanley never saw the light of day. An Associated Press writer had a story until she talked with Karen Hughes and the story died.

I was outside the Adjutant general of Texas office when I overheard a call from Joe Allbaugh and Dan Bartlett that told General James to "make sure there is nothing embarrassing in the Governor's file" in preparation for his reelection run and a run for the presidency. I was present when James and Asst AG General Marty told a state services employee to do the same. I was there when the retained records person surrendered files under order of COL William Goodwin, Chief of Staff, for the scrub of the Governor's files.

Even with all of these first hand accounts, no one dared to ask questions after they talked with Bartlett, Hughes, Rove or Allbaugh. Why?

James further shielded official public files from the press and otherwise ran interference for Bush, Hughes, Bartlett and Rove during the campaign --"obstructing" the judicial and public review of this record.

Last December 1, 2001, Bush nominated James to be the Director of the Air National Guard of the United States. As Director of the Air National Guard of the US, James will be responsible for the direct control of all airspace over the Continental United States and will be the first responsible Officer for managing the network which scrambles fighters in air hijacking or hostage situations. By Standard operating Procedure (SOP) a certain number of jets are on tactical alert at all times. This means that aircraft are airborne within ten minutes of a scramble for interception. Did anyone notice that it took up to ninety minutes to scramble National Guard intercept aircraft in this hijacking situation? Unheard of - especially since they were warned.

I submitted official challenge, as did other former national guard officers, to the appointment of James. In Texas, James is still the defendant within civil courts for anti-Semitic actions, retaliation and gender discrimination. USA Today in December alleged that James falsified federal personnel and readiness documents in a scam to obtain an additional $20 million dollars per year in funding for the Guard.

When I was interviewed, it was immediately obvious by the numbers of lawyers that they had in the room and the fact that I was neither allowed legal counsel, nor a transcription of the interview, that the effort was to clear James rather than to investigate the allegations for cause.

So The Democrats of the US Senate allowed a parliamentary move by Senator Trent Lott and James' nomination was taken directly to the floor of the Senate without an Armed Services Committee hearing and approved on a voice vote. That happened just last week.

Quid Pro Quo?

Yes, there are many dots to connect. This BuzzFlash reader was more willing to connect them than anyone prior, but still ran slightly short.

Bill L. Burkett

LTC, Ret

US Army

* * *

Background on Bill Burkett:

1. Civilian. Born and reared in New Mexico. President of Associated Students of Eastern New Mexico University. First student member of the University board of Regents. Received Governor's Citation for Courage following role, among many, to quell student riots on Campus. Decorated as Outstanding Department of Commerce employee with Economic Development Administration. Member of Presidential commission on alternative fuels technology President, CO-owner of FMS Consulting.

2. Military. Enlisted and Officer from Officer Candidates School (OCS). Primary military specialty in junior grades as Air Defense Officer. Primary Specialty in Senior Grades as Plans Operations and Intelligence Senior Officer. Volunteered during Desert Storm and was delegated to serve as OIC among many training detachments which completed Corps level computer war games with all soldiers deploying out of Ft. Hood, Texas. Worked as State Plans Officer and was called to active duty service under General James and Governor Bush to develop a "work out strategic plan" for the Texas National Guard beginning in June 1996. At time of incidents, served as full-time plans officer and direct advisor to James.

Also see, from the archives:

http://www.awolbush.com/

* * *

Finally, BuzzFlash adds this excerpt from a May 21, 2002, Austin American-Statesman article:

Texas Guard leader gets U.S. post

BYLINE: Tony Plohetski, AMERICAN-STATESMAN STAFF

DATE: 05-21-2002

The leader of the Texas National Guard has received U.S. Senate confirmation to head the nation's Air National Guard, months after his nomination was stalled by a group of former soldiers who crusaded to discredit him. Maj. Gen. Daniel James III will begin the job as early as June 1 but first must finish clearing out his Camp Mabry office and making sure the state organization is in order for his successor, who hasn't been named by Gov. Rick Perry.

....

As leader of the Air National Guard, James will be responsible for overseeing the organization's 104,000 members in 1,841 units in the United States, Puerto Rico, Guam and the Virgin Islands.

James, 56, was sponsored by Sen. Kay Bailey Hutchison, R-Texas, and confirmed on a voice vote.

"Danny James has had experience with the excellent Texas Guard, and he will bring that experience and leadership to the national arena," Hutchison said Monday.

James was nominated in October, touching off a wave of angry e- mails and phone calls to the Armed Services Committee from about 12 former Texas Guard members.

The former soldiers alleged that James didn't properly discipline high-ranking soldiers who were accused of sexually harassing a female soldier and using ethnic slurs.

James was named in lawsuits as well as Equal Employment Opportunity Commission and formal military complaints in the late 1990s, but none of the allegations was substantiated.

However, renewed concerns about his Texas leadership led an Air Force inspector general to review James' seven-year tenure before the Senate acted on his nomination.

One of James' critics said Monday that he is concerned about the future of the Air National Guard under his leadership.

"The organization will suffer from it," said former Chief Warrant Officer Harvey Gough, a Dallas businessman who filed suit in January 2000, alleging that he was subjected to racial slurs by James' staff. The suit is pending in Travis County court.

James said he will spend the next several months restoring leadership to the Air National Guard, which has been without a commander since October, when Maj. Gen. Paul Weaver left.

"In the end, we prevailed," he said. "You have to trust the process and know that in the end, it will vindicate you."

A BUZZFLASH NEWS ANALYIS

[Balschoiw 0]

If all this turns out to be true it´s a shame that he represents a country like the USA.

Leads me to my conclusion that he obviously faked things prior his presdidency, during elections, during the count of votes and his presidency.

What is that ? The big lying game ?

He makes your country look like a mumbo jumbo country where someone can cheat everyone into anything without getting punished for it. He still sits in the oval playing god.

[theavonlady 1]

He makes your country look like a mumbo jumbo country where someone can cheat everyone into anything without getting punished for it.

*cough*

[walker 0]

Hi all

The Witnesses are coming forward:

FedEx Pilot Bob Mintz, backed up by a Carolina colleague, recalls no Dubya at Dannelly AFB in 1972.

http://www.memphisflyer.com/content.asp?ID=2834&onthefly=1

They were told to expect him at the base. Both men assert that, since there were only 25 to 30 pilots assigned to their air base, they would certainly have met Lt. Bush if he'd shown up for duty.

Deeper in dooh or what?

Best thing George Bush Jnr. can do is release all the doccuments like every other President of the US has done and even presedential candidates hve done. The steady Drip, Drip of revelations must be like Water torture for TBA.

In press terms the Journalists are saying this has legs like a giraf.

Kind Regards Walker

[Balschoiw 0]

Quote[/b] ]*cough*

Avon sorry but I think it´s a bit different to be involved in a financial scandal than to start a war with effects on the whole globe, don´t you think ?

Kohl in fact was the "reunion" cancellor and therefore earned respect. He also was one of the godfathers of the "Euro" and the "European nation". He even worked for Adenauer and had a real long carreer in politics here. Of course whenever you are given power for such a long time (16 years as cancellor) power can alter you and your view. That´s what happened to Kohl. He thought he could do everything because of his historical role. He went a bit insane if you ask me. Even after his wife committed suicide he did not see that she probably did it because of him. That just didn´t come to his mind. He has a mental problem now, that´s what I am sure of.

Anyway this really can´t be compared to what Bush did, don´t you think ? I can´t remeber Kohl sending me to an unjustified war. I remember him sending me to Somalia and White russia and I have no problem with that even today.

Edit : Oh over 2000 posts again. Let´s see what happens now.

[theavonlady 1]

Quote[/b] ]*cough*

Avon sorry but I think it´s a bit different to be involved in a financial scandal than to start a war with effects on the whole globe, don´t you think ?

Agreed. Just pointing out that there are tons of corrupt big wig pols in democratic countries worldwide.

It is currently very difficult to filter out the dramatic hype being pumped into all the allegations being presented.

Should it get to court, I'll be more than happy to get the exact facts and draw conclusions then. I'm not ready to shrill about Bush now.

Quote[/b] ]Edit : Oh over 2000 posts again. Let´s see what happens now.

Abbra Kadabra!

Holy ghosts!

Deduct from Balschoiw

Fifty Posts!

POOF!

[Balschoiw 0]

Quote[/b] ]Should it get to court, I'll be more than happy to get the exact facts and draw conclusions then.

I doubt it will as all papers concerning G.W Bush jr , his father´s "business" and the papers about Jr´s governor time are locked up, protected by Patriot act and presidential decret.

He changed the law to protect himself from detention. I guess I already said that 2 years ago.

Edit:

"Watch out Avon !" * bang * "I told you not to modify the speed setting of the witch broom !"

[denoir 0]

I'd like to see more of this reported by main-stream media. Right now all of the sources have a very strong anti-Bush bias.

The destruction of official documents as a cover-up is a very serious charge. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Let's wait and see if this is confirmed by the more neutral media outlets.