The "community"

[Bmot 0]

Let's stick to the topic.

Tuborg is good but if you want true beer then go to Germany or Try Czech Rep's Pilsner Urguell  

pilsner urquell is a fantastic brew! ...don't beat Tuborg Gold though.

Gaah! Sorry there, dm, I got carried away!

[MEDICUS 0]

Infact, this whole topic is to promote more people like you, and less people who post mindless spam. Afterall who cares if you think its sweet and you're downloading it now?

Sorry, but if someone posts a new addon which he made and i like it, so i'll say that i like it. This is "Good behaviour" in my view. If u take something ... say "Thank You!".

If u think that's mindless spam ... i'm sorry for that.

But i think most of the addon-makers will care if there are some people who say that they like what he's done.

[Tamme 0]

Infact, this whole topic is to promote more people like you, and less people who post mindless spam. Afterall who cares if you think its sweet and you're downloading it now?

Sorry, but if someone posts a new addon which he made and i like it, so i'll say that i like it. This is "Good behaviour" in my view. If u take something ... say "Thank You!".

If u think that's mindless spam ... i'm sorry for that.

But i think most of the addon-makers will care if there are some people who say that they like what he's done.

I think you're right. If I released an addon and the thread would just die away because of no replys I think I'd feel pretty bad about it. I'd think it was considered so useless/crap that ppl didn't even bother to say it wasn't any good (in constructive way that is).

And no offense, but saying something like that about people complimenting your addons might give a "You may need us, but we don't need you" type of picture.

[igor drukov 0]

Hey !

A touching thread. My penny :

Categorizing people is something too reassuring and orderly to fit reality.

Sticking to one's judg(e)ment is also a dangerous mistake : fortunately, life is such that people's tempers, knowledge, feelings, reactions keep readjusting all the time to whatever interactions they are experiencing.

A free mind will be hovering over this ocean of chaos, considering things with a benevolent eye, and retaining the ones that will enable to improve this world, in the hope of being imitated.

It can't let itself be hurt by words, especially ones badly-typed by strangers. It keeps moving on, knowing that it might stray away, too.

The main question should be : what have I done today to put an end to, or retire from, that egregious rat-race everyone so naturally takes part in ?

And the main obsacle is : most things we accomplish and believe are good do nothing but feed our pride or quench our thirst for power.

One striking thing about the OFP community : we are all freaks, spending time to create new ingame military gear or missions, coding things in a weird language to reproduce the worst things mankind has ever come up with. Albeit, many of us are mature, sensible adults, with wife and kids.

One place where people amazingly do try to help one another in OFP (and that many of you are already patrons of) : OFPEC.

Why ? Because their greed is not aroused.

How ? Post counting is disabled. No crap, no spam, no flaming. Straight to the point.

Ig.

Note 1 : I hope you get my point, English is not my mother-tongue.

Note 2 : "Treat others how you would like to be treated yourself", courtesy of Emmanuel Kant.

Note 3 : Addons account for 50% of my hard-disc. Call me enthusiastic n00b, or do-gooder, or ignorami, or moron, or combo special, look down on me, why should I care ? They have filled me with joy and awe. I thank all add-on makers for that.

[dm 9]

Infact, this whole topic is to promote more people like you, and less people who post mindless spam. Afterall who cares if you think its sweet and you're downloading it now?

Sorry, but if someone posts a new addon which he made and i like it, so i'll say that i like it. This is "Good behaviour" in my view. If u take something ... say "Thank You!".

If u think that's mindless spam ... i'm sorry for that.

But i think most of the addon-makers will care if there are some people who say that they like what he's done.

No no, you miss my point. But I do see yours.

What I'm trying to do here, is not suggest that all posts are "banned" unless they have some specific addon related information in them. Rather that people try to at least structure the post a little. Rather than simply saying "its sweet" say "point xxx is cool, I like function yyy, action zzz is really handy too" This would also encourage other users to experiment with the addon and find its full potential.

[Pathy 0]

All i wish was the people who feel that thier comment along the lines of "That addon is complete shit" is being helpful, learn:

a) to be more tactful, as alot of effort,at always minimum benefit for the addon maker (come on, whats 10-100 odd hours of work on an addon (depending on its size and type for the time taken) for just a feeling of a job well done and a few nice comments, combined with the knowledge that 10 people MIGHT actually play with it a couple of times.....but STILL i do it :P), goes into making addons and they dont seem to appreciate that....

b) make constructive comments that actually help.

I dont care for them otherwise, i just wish they'd do these. However, most of the people who spam ofp.info boards with flames are the people who get a kick from pissing people off.

I guess the best way is to treat them as a joke.

I gotta say, its also not just non addon makers who can behave like this. I remember when some poor guy released pics of his very 1st addon, like, spetznatz units. Ok they werent anything youd want to download because they were basically spetznatz with a few bushes (like a sniper).....ok so it wasnt great by a long stretch, but it was his first even addon, and he was probably very proud so it was totally disguisting when people who should know better acted like these flamers, and totally spammed this guys comment bit. I mean, 1st addon, and hes being ripped apart, told what a "fucking looser" he is, and not just by the usual flamers.....i wouldnt be suprised if he gave up on the spot.....

Anyway, point is, flaming anybodies work, however basic, is wrong.

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

The point is correct. Certain manners might not be very accurate for the time we are living in, but some things are just absolutely obligatory. If people talk to modmakers like they are talking to the Sierra customer-complaints-hotline then this is going too far. I very much support this. The least you can do is a short please and thank you and giving the necessary credit to the person who made the effort. Lets admit it, in the end people who post their addons here want to get appreciated, they get no money out of it and that is all we can give them. Consider it as the FEE you have to pay when downloading an addon. If you dont say "thank you, great job!" then you simply havent paid your bill. Full Stop!

(i messaged many of the people I downloaded addons from and gave a short feedback. Of course positive feedback since they did what I am not capable to do).

[dm 9]

Anyway, point is, flaming anybodies work, however basic, is wrong.

Sums it up nicely I think.

Excellent post overall Pathy, nice.

@Albert - good idea. A little courtesy, and some constructive points, is that too much to ask for a fee? (or should we start charging $20 an addon )

[Pathy 0]

Cheers

What and get our assess sued by BIS?

Howabout we put a kill switch in our addons, if they dont send a thank-you email within 24 hours of downloading the addon......

[Gen.Carnage 0]

there is a simple explanation why people all think they are experts when it comes to addons (or so they think).

The internet is full of reference pictures that the whiners can slam in your face when you didnt make a part of the addon juuuust right. those are the 'armchair experts'.

Then there are the experience experts, that have in one way or another been in actual contact with the 'addon' irl.

Some of them have seen the vehicle in question from real close, and were even allowed to sit in it briefly, as long as they didnt touch anything.

When they get home and are finally let on the computer by mum or dad, they cant wait to slam your face into the wrong bits of your addon, trying to make you apologise for your mistaken and beg for forgiveness.

And dont you dare contradict them, because profanities will soon follow.

Then, ofcourse, there are the (ex) crewmen of the vehicle in question, obviously  with military background.

While some of them are pretty laid back, some simply cannot live with an addon that is not 100% fully the same as the thing they served in. Those guys have an absolute urge to set you straight 'how dare you depict that vehicle in that manner' kinda way.

Funny thing is: the closer the addon looks like the real thing, the bigger the magnification factor for the microscope they use to find your mistakes.

An addon that looks like nothing, with poor textures and sloppy model isnt even downloaded,  let alone scrutinized.

Maybe we addonmakers should stick our heads together and buy us some of those proffesional retail 3d models with 200.000+ polygons, simply apply a green bitmap 16x16 resolution to every single poly and the whole thing will look real. . ofcourse ofp would completely bog down to 1 frame per 20 minutes, but they got what they wanted right?

Ive said it before, there are people who create things, and those who destroy things. We all know what the military is best at.

I agree with DM when he says there is a lack of respect in the community, but i see a slow change for the better happening.

If an addon gets released, and a lot of people are slagging it off, how in hell would that motivate the creator to improove it?

All addonmakers that have ever released an addon has been there... the 'what the **** was i thinking, giving these As*****s my addon?' feeling.

Get that feeling too often and your hobby all of a sudden isnt bringing you joy anymore. so you quit or keep the addons to yourself.

Telling the addonmaker to shape up and stop crying is a sign of utter arrogance, you cannot know what the person in question is going thru, how much time he/she put into the addon.

The change for the better i spoke of i noticed by the fact that disrespectful kids are kicked back into the corner by other members of the community.

Saying the community is bad is  exaggurated, but the amount of negative reactions to an addon is often exceeding the positive ones. <- THAT! is bad, ANYTHING that is given to the community should be cheered on!

Afterall, it is the addons and mod's, and the people behind them, that have kept ofp alive

[CanadianTerror 0]

While I don't disagree with a single word you said...why you'd post pics (chally2 or anything else) without an explanation on your main page hoping it would get its own thread and people talking about is not a very good idea.

It did get noticed and it got ripped apart by a bunch of people who thought you were going full steam ahead with an addon that they felt was being "made incorrectly".

That kind of behaviour is nothing new for some/lots of forum people and I think you walked into that one yourself just because you should have known better.

It's like a challenge for people to figure out what is or what it is supposed to be and if it has mistakes. Then, it becomes a contest to find any and all mistakes.

Human nature.

[Tim Pink 0]

hey everyone

i was posting in the BAS thread and i made a joke about slipping tigershark drugs so that he'd show us sum pics of the Pavies and 3 members jumped all over me with quotes like "u have 2 much time on your hands" and "seek sum help".

i was showing an interest in BAS's work and i got yelled at.

I mean i go to tafe 9-4 5 days a week and work 5-10 nites except sat and sun so i dont have that much spare time

it really feels like your doomed if you do doomed if you dont

Tim

p.s. i dont know y i posted this but i thought it had some relevance to the topic, i mean not only do members attack the addon makers but also the people who show interest in it all

[hellfish6 7]

p.s. i dont know y i posted this but i thought it had some relevance to the topic, i mean not only do members attack the addon makers but also the people who show interest in it all

It's probably because you did it in the wrong place. This isn't a BAS thread. Look over in A&MD for that.

[Gollum1 0]

LOL you are WAY overreacting, Tim. Try carefully reading it again and see if you got "yelled at"

[Tim Pink 0]

Hey

no i was just tryim to add to deadmeats idea that it seems like some members of the community are never "satisfied"

Tim

[Tim Pink 0]

hey

Sorry if i overreacted but that 2 much sparetime comment pissed me off lol

Tim

[dm 9]

I agree with DM when he says there is a lack of respect in the community, but i see a slow change for the better happening.

If an addon gets released, and a lot of people are slagging it off, how in hell would that motivate the creator to improove it?

All addonmakers that have ever released an addon has been there... the 'what the **** was i thinking, giving these As*****s my addon?' feeling.

Get that feeling too often and your hobby all of a sudden isnt bringing you joy anymore. so you quit or keep the addons to yourself...

...The change for the better i spoke of i noticed by the fact that disrespectful kids are kicked back into the corner by other members of the community...

Excellent post carny, and I think it emphasises what I'm trying to get across. It doesnt matter HOW long that change takes, just as long as it does happen. Take OFP.Info for example, everyone knows that the comments boards are rife with flames and spam, but recently, I have noticed that some members have taken it upon themselves to act as "moderators" now this isnt as effective as it might be, because they have no direct control over what anyone posts, all they can do is say "thats not cool stop doing it." Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesnt, but its a sign of change, and it IS slowly happening.

Quote[/b] ]Telling the addonmaker to shape up and stop crying is a sign of utter arrogance, you cannot know what the person in question is going thru, how much time he/she put into the addon.

This is another point I have tried to put across. 9 times out of 10, the people who say "buck up, ignore them" etc, have not been on the recieving end of the "bad part" of the community. And I can tell you, sifting through and answering 100's of emails a month, as well as answering comments on the boards DOES get a little tiresome (more so when they are simple things which have been covered in the readme, or flames/spam.)

Also, this ties in with the pride element, I can only speak for myself, but I expect every other addon maker does aswell, but I take great pride in my work. I haven't toiled for 100's of hours (on the bigger projects) just to create a pos. I've spent countless hours searching the net for images and data, spoken to real world specialists who actually operate the vehicle/use the weapon etc. Then I've spent hours and hours modeling it and skinning it. Once its complete, its like a child to me, and I will do my best to protect it. Until you have done it yourself you simply can NOT understand how hard it is to just sit back and watch it get critisised as "rubbish and innacurate."

Quote[/b] ]Saying the community is bad is exaggurated, but the amount of negative reactions to an addon is often exceeding the positive ones. <- THAT! is bad, ANYTHING that is given to the community should be cheered on!

That definately runs true. It may or may not happen here, but overall it DOES happen, and again is very effective at getting addon makers down, very quickly. Like I've said before, we don't want a thread to ebe full of meaningless "sweet" "nice" or otherwise comments. What we do want is people to post about what functions and features they like about it. You just have to look at the MH-47's and MH-60's from us to see how many features they have, 90% of which can not be forund or used by simply stuffing it in the editor and flying round. I knwo it gives us [bAS] the best feeling of "a job well done" when people comment on how the fastroping system is good, and works well etc, and I'm sure it gives other mods like DKM, or the ECP guys or FDF the best feelings when that occurs too.

Quote[/b] ]Afterall, it is the addons and mod's, and the people behind them, that have kept ofp alive

We've allready lost some of the best modders that we had to this sort of thing, lets not lose any more

[SpeedyDonkey 0]

Okay ... here is the full list of different types of flamers.

[Gollum1 0]

Speedydonkey, that is so funny! I really recognize some types there.

[Gen.Carnage 0]

Quote[/b] ]That kind of behaviour is nothing new for some/lots of forum people and I think you walked into that one yourself just because you should have known better.

we post some progress pictures of what we are working on from time to time, if this gets ripped from our site and put in a thread somewhere else isnt under our control.

besides, no matter what we show the people, they simply did not earn the right to slag whatever we post off, period!

giving us feedback in a positive way that will help us improve it is another matter, that is ofcourse appreciated.

We dont have a problem with critisism, as long as it is founded and explained what was meant by it and is stated respectfully and decent.

If i put a white cube rendering as potw on our site and say it will become a space shuttle, im pretty sure some people will immediately start bitching.

Saying, 'wow, good start, but could you please add some more detail so that it will look even better?' will surely be accepted better than; 'omfg, that looks like s***, how on earth do you dare calling that a space shuttle, it sux!'

Don't you agree?

[m21man 0]

Quote[/b] ]no i was just tryim to add to deadmeats idea that it seems like some members of the community are never "satisfied"

You were the one who hadn't been satisfied by the pics they'd already given us .

[DKM Jaguar 0]

People abuse thier right to free speech by saying things that they cannot get away with in real life. I guess that's why a lot of people like the internet. But with this comes the consequences, and though in real life these would lie with the person making the comments, on the internet the only person effected is the addon maker. This is why non-modders are almost 'blind' to the subject which we are talking of, as they don't see the effects of what they say, they don't feel it, and they don't HAVE to. That's why they feel it's ok, and keep doing it. It's very egocentric and partially disturbing.

However, as many of you know I'm quite quick to get angry... and I'm not going to be doing JUST missions for very much longer. I worry about how I will deal with the added flak from my new activities. I mean, this must be what every other just-starting-out modder must feel, and right now it's almost enough to put me off doing it. If I didn't have the support of the DKM team then I have no idea if I'd give OFP modifications a try.

And this is my point:

We are not just thinking of ourselves, now, being effected by this torrent of needless critisicm, but the potential, new, skilled mod makers that could be, but never will be part of the community because of the behaviour the community exhibited to other mod makers has put them off.

It's the mod makers keeping OFP alive but it's the community which it seems will make it die. With so few addon makers coming in,  the only thing that can happen is people leaving.

The community is going to destroy itself with needlessly harsh critisicm.

So, for the love of god, keep saying what you think as long as it will get the addon made better, but if you can't think of anything else than "that's shit" you are not attacking the mod makers, but the entire community.

This goes beyond the feelings of the individual, as if the community dies then we'll ALL be effected. And then these people will see the consequences.

These are my thoughts. Feel free to completely dsiregard them.

[Tim Pink 0]

It's Ralph Wiggum

http://www.winternet.com/~mikelr/flame82.html

and blackdog

http://www.winternet.com/~mikelr/flame67.html

sorry couldnt resist

The BAS Team

http://www.winternet.com/~mikelr/flame4.html

sum1 stop me plz

Tim

p.s(i am joking so please no one take offence)

[m21man 0]

Who does this remind you of   ?

Me

[CanadianTerror 0]

Tim Pink