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ralphwiggum

The Iraq thread 3

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For one thing all of you are making assanine assumptions that those people who stoned the British soldiers EVEN KNEW that their were a bunch of dead children.  For all you know they may have thought it was just a bunch of dead policemen who they may hate.

Chris G.

aka-Miles Teg<GD>

I don't quite see how that justifies the stoning of British soldiers...   rock.gif

(sigh)...  It's NOT about justifying their actions.   That's the problem with so many people is that they keep thinking its all about either villifying or justifying one side or another.  That's NOT what it's about.  It's about understanding why in the hell these people are doing stupid things.

Yes stoning British troops for any reason is stupid if the British troops haven't committed any crimes against them...(Even if the British troops did commit some type of crime against an Iraqi, stones aren't much good against SA-80's, GPMG's, and Minimis).

But have you ever wondered WHY they are doing that??? Instead most people just say, "Oh they are savages, they are stupid, they are idiots, they are religious zealots, they hate us, ect... ect..."

Nobody seems to care about how these people think and why.

If you understand these things then you can start getting to the root of the problems in Iraq and start dealing with them in productive ways rather then just throwing more troops at the problem.

Basically what I was saying is that we are making ALOT of dangerous assumptions about why these Iraqis were throwing stones at the British troops without actually being there and seeing the context in which they were throwing stones and asking them why they were doing it.

If nobody is willing to ask them "why?" then the British troops should just start shooting the rock throwers if they don't care.   That's what US forces do.  We should be happy they didn't shoot bullets and RPGs along with those stones.  

Chris G.

aka-Miles Teg<GD>

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And again you dont even get a simple statement.....i wasnt saying....ahh screw it, if you want to act like a self justified idiot, go ahead, you dont seem to have the intellect to act any differently.

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They're not leaving fast enough!

Gunman Shoots Spaniard in Baghdad Supermarket

Quote[/b] ]BAGHDAD (Reuters) - A gunman killed a Spanish civilian in a Baghdad supermarket on Thursday in an attack that underscored the risks facing foreigners in Iraq.

Police sources said a lone assailant in traditional Arab robe and headdress shot the Spaniard in the head and badly wounded his translator in the Sunni Muslim Adhamiya district.

It was a South african "security personel" that got killed:

Reuters

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Pathy - racial epithets in any context are not acceptable and you've been around long enough to know that.

+2WL and 72hr PR for racist epithet.

&

24hr PR for flaming/flame baiting with last comment.

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I see on CNN that Bremer is making a push to allow the Baath Party back into the elections. They had previously been banned. Now he hopes to allow the Baath Party in to show the Sunni's that they are welcome in the government.

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Right....man that would be something to see, the Baath party taking power again, and trying Saddam Hussain? "We sentence you to life as president".  tounge_o.gif

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I see on CNN that Bremer is making a push to allow the Baath Party back into the elections. They had previously been banned. Now he hopes to allow the Baath Party in to show the Sunni's that they are welcome in the government.

funny how he first said no Baathist party officers would be allowed, and now that he sees the need for it. but then again, getting Iraq stable and leaving ASAP is the goal, so eh.

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Hey Ralph, get your sheep a haircut. 6 years of hippieness are enough wink_o.gif

While Bush was very fast with AQ links again, truth is somewhere else to be found:

Basra arrest bolsters revenge theory

Quote[/b] ]Evidence suggests homegrown terrorists - not al-Qaida - carried out bombings in response to attack on Falluja

An Iraqi suspected of involvement in Wednesday's devastating bomb attacks in Basra came from the Sunni city of Falluja, Iraqi officials said yesterday, suggesting that the blasts may not have been the work of al-Qaida but an act of revenge for the US's brutal offensive in the city.

According to British officials, Basra's governor, Wael Abdullatif, told colleagues on Wednesday night that an Iraqi caught running away from the scene of one of the explosions had travelled to southern Iraq from Falluja.

He was detained outside the police academy in Zubayr, 15 miles south of Basra, which was the scene of two of Wednesday's car bomb attacks.

As the death toll from the explosions rose to 74 yesterday, with 160 injured, Mr Abdullatif said the Iraqi authorities were pursuing several leads and expected to make more arrests shortly.

He gave no further details of the man in custody, but Iraqi officials said "seven or eight" Iraqis from the mainly Sunni town of Zubayr had been killed in the US military's offensive against Falluja.

Wednesday's blasts - all directed at police stations - now look unlikely to have been carried out by al-Qaida or foreign Islamists. The most likely theory is that they were the work of local Iraqis incensed by the deaths of hundreds of fellow Sunnis killed in Falluja by US troops.

"Violence creates violence," said Shaker Muhawesh, the managing editor of the Sunni Alsaah newspaper, yesterday.

"The Americans are over-using violence against Iraqi civilians. This is a mistake. The gap between the Americans and the Iraqis is growing. Since Falluja, even people who were neutral are turning against them."

The mood across Basra was subdued yesterday, with streets quiet and roads closed, as the first funerals of the victims took place. They included eight nursery school children and nine teenage girls. Their school minibuses were incinerated in the blast outside the al-Saudia police station. The explosions outside a total of three police stations were the most deadly attack in British-occupied southern Iraq since last year's invasion.

Yesterday hundreds of supporters of the radical Shia cleric Moqtada al-Sadr took to the streets to denounce the failure of British troops in the city to ensure security.

Chanting "No to America" and holding mock coffins and banners that read "We condemn Blair the criminal", the protesters demanded that British forces hand over control of Basra to Iraqis.

Yesterday Dominic D'Angelo, the British spokesman for Iraq's coalition provisional authority in Basra, said Mr Sadr's supporters were trying to sow "discord and doubt".

"The attacks were designed not only to injure the police, but were always destined to kill civilians as well," he said. "The coalition in the south is being effective and for quite some time has kept Basra in a pretty good state."

The governor, Mr Abdullatif, had announced that the suspect in custody was from Falluja after a meeting of Basra's provisional government, he said.

Speaking at his monthly news conference in London, Tony Blair said yesterday that "evil, barbaric people" should not be allowed to stop the reconstruction of Iraq. The UN would play an important role in rebuilding the country, he said, being the only body with "the international credibility to be able to certify and help guide the process of political transition."

George Bush has said that al-Qaida was behind the Basra bombings. Yesterday Major General Mark Kimmitt, the US military's spokesman in Baghdad, said the "nature of the attacks" suggested the involvement of Musab al-Zarqawi, the Jordanian militant linked both to al-Qaida and to previous suicide bomb attacks in Kerbala and Irbil. He admitted that the US had no further evidence for the claim.

I can´t hear that stupid AQ from Mr Bush anymore. For everything that goes wrong he blames AQ. Even if he knows better, it´s AQ. I know his brain capacities must be very limited, judging his political behaviour, but does he always be the first to scream AQ ?

It´s Resistance not AQ that delivers opposition to the coaltion in Iraq.

When will Bush get that ? crazy_o.gif

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Hey Ralph, get your sheep a haircut. 6 years of hippieness are enough  wink_o.gif

baaaaaaaaa! what do you care, you baaaaastard! crazy_o.gifbiggrin_o.gifwink_o.gif

Quote[/b] ]While Bush was very fast with AQ links again, truth is somewhere else to be found:

Basra arrest bolsters revenge theory

a very unsettling thing if true. more of these acts will happen and TBA had no plans to prepare for these...

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Quote[/b] ]baaaaaaaaa! what do you care, you baaaaastard!

...Joke alarm......Joke alarm......Joke alarm......Joke alarm......Joke alarm...

Ralphs colleagues in Iraq adopt to the changed situation:

iraqi-sheep-pimpin.jpg

...Joke alarm......Joke alarm......Joke alarm......Joke alarm......Joke alarm...

Mähhh  wink_o.gif

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Mähhh  wink_o.gif

speak English. tounge_o.gif

§3.7)Write in English (or Klingon)

In the English part of the board write in English and in the Czech write in Czech. Try avoiding writing in any other language since the majority of the members most likely won't understand it.

anyways,

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/04/22/iraq.main/index.html

Quote[/b] ]WASHINGTON (CNN) -- A proposed interim government that could assume power in Iraq on June 30 would "represent the diversity of Iraq" but would not include any legislature until elections could be held, a State Department official said Thursday.

seems like US will be in this for a loooooooooooooong time. we are not getting a full gov't in July 1st.

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Pentagon fury at war dead photos [bBC]

Quote[/b] ]The Pentagon has reacted angrily to the publication on US websites of photos of America's war dead arriving home.

Defence officials had banned publicity of the return of bodies from Iraq, but were forced to release images after a freedom-of-information court action.

Photos of coffins at the main military mortuary appeared on the web, prompting a Pentagon information crackdown.

Meanwhile, a US cargo worker has been fired after her photo of flag-draped coffins was used by a US newspaper.

Tami Silicio, 50, was dismissed by military contractor Maytag Aircraft Corp after she sent the photo to a friend who, with her permission, gave it to The Seattle Times for publication.

Since the beginning of the war, the media has been banned from Dover Air Force base in Delaware - the US military's largest mortuary - where the coffins of American soldiers have been arriving.

But photographs of flag-draped coffins were released last week to activist Russ Kick, who filed a Freedom of Information Act request to receive the images.

Renewed ban

After Mr Kick posted more than 350 photographs on his website, the memoryhole.org, the Pentagon barred further release of the images to media outlets.

"The photos will not be released through Air Force channels," said Air Force spokeswoman Lieutenant Colonel Jennifer Cassidy, who added that requests for their release could be made under the same act.

"They're not happy with the release of the photos," said Dover Air Force base spokesman Col Jon Anderson of the Pentagon.

Defence officials said the purpose of the ban was to protect the privacy of soldiers' families.

"Quite frankly, we don't want the remains of our service members who have made the ultimate sacrifice to be the subject of any kind of attention that is unwarranted or undignified," John Molino, a deputy undersecretary of defence, was quoted by the Associated Press as saying.

But the practice is widely criticised.

"We need to stop hiding the deaths of our young," said Jane Bright of California, who lost a son in combat last year. "We need to be open about their deaths."

The site http://www.thememoryhole.org/ seems to be down, but here are some samples of the pictures:

c1.jpg

c2.jpg

c3.jpg

c4.jpg

c5.jpg

(pics taken from the Drudge report website)

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i can kind of see why they dont want the pictures show there be alot of coffins there sad_o.gif

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i can kind of see why they dont want the pictures show there be alot of coffins there sad_o.gif

I must be too used to war. sad_o.gif

I don't see any reason why these pictures should not be shown.

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Is his time up yet?

Quote[/b] ]Shiite Cleric Threatens Suicide Attacks

1 hour, 4 minutes ago

KUFA, Iraq - A Shiite Muslim cleric threatened on Friday to launch suicide attacks if U.S. troops attack him and his forces in the holy city of Najaf.

Muqtada al-Sadr, was speaking during the Friday prayers sermon in Kufa, another Shiite Muslim holy city few miles from Najaf. The area is mostly controlled by his Al-Mahdi Army militia, whose members have clashed with U.S. troops several times since their uprising began on April 4.

"Some of the Mujahideen brothers have told me they want to carry out martyrdom attacks but I am postponing this," al-Sadr said in front of thousands of worshippers. "When we are forced to do so and when our city and holy sites are attacked, we will all be timebombs in the face of the enemy."

He condemned suicide bombings Wednesday in the southern city of Basra that killed 73 people because they targeted Iraqi police and civilians.

U.S. forces are deployed outside Najaf, but their mission to capture or kill al-Sadr has effectively been put on hold while negotiators try to resolve the standoff. U.S. commanders say they have no intention for the time being of entering Najaf, the holiest Shiite city.

Al-Sadr is wanted in the April 2003 killing of a rival cleric.

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Quote[/b] ]I don't see any reason why these pictures should not be shown.

Pictures of coffins were censored in both World Wars. Furthermore, the courts upheld the 1991 policy of banning the pictures because of privacy for the family.

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It has nothing to do with the privacy of the families as the coffins are sealed and anonymous. It has everything to do with bad publicity. And it's nothing unique for this war. Showing pictures of your dead soldiers is bad for moral.

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And it's nothing unique for this war. Showing pictures of your dead soldiers is bad for moral.

If that's the case and it's always been true, then that's how it should be.

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Quote[/b] ]It has nothing to do with the privacy of the families as the coffins are sealed and anonymous. It has everything to do with bad publicity. And it's nothing unique for this war. Showing pictures of your dead soldiers is bad for moral.

That whats the courts say.

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I know the initial British war dead were televised live when they were brought back. I thought the US had a free'er press than we did.

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With numbers they are just that. Numbers.

Start showing pictures and people start to say "Wait a second..."

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Maybe this is why Bush never attended a single funeral of a soldier who died as a result of his actions and attitude.

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