The Iraq thread 3

[quicksand 0]

Sorry to be the bad news bringer from sunny Iraq but..

Iraqi Deputy Foreign Minister Killed

Quote[/b] ]BAGHDAD, Iraq - Gunmen ambushed and killed an Iraqi deputy foreign minister as he went to his Baghdad office Saturday, the Foreign Ministry said.

The assailants shot Bassam Salih Kubba in Baghdad's Azimiyah district, a Sunni Muslim neighborhood where support for Saddam Hussein`s regime had been strong. He died later of his wounds, said Thamir al-Adhami, the Foreign Ministry spokesman.

Kubba, 60, was one of several deputy foreign ministers, and was responsible for legal issues. He was the ministry's most senior career diplomat.

He served as the acting chief of the Iraqi mission to the United Nations (news - web sites) in New York and as the Iraqi ambassador to China. Kubba also served on the committee which ran the ministry after the fall of Saddam's regime.

He held a master's degree in international relations from St. John's University in New York.

The attack was the second on members of the interim government in the last four days

Quote[/b] ]Gunmen raid police station near Baghdad in fourth such attack this week

YUSUFIYAH, Iraq (AP) - Gunmen stormed a police station south of Baghdad, drove off the poorly armed police and blew up the building Friday in the fourth such attack against Iraqi security installations over the last week, officials and witnesses said.

A prominent Sunni Muslim cleric, meanwhile, expressed disappointment with the recent U.N. resolution endorsing the transfer of power to the Iraqis and he called for a complete end to the American presence here.

Police in this Euphrates river town, 10 miles south of Baghdad, called for help from American forces when they came under attack. But the Americans didn\'t reach the town until about five hours after the attack, police Lt. Sattar Abdul-Reda.

Abdul-Reda said the attackers arrived in seven cars, surrounded the station and opened fire with small arms and rocket-propelled grenades. The 10 policemen inside were armed only with Kalashnikov rifles and pistols and fled the station after realizing they were outgunned, Abdul-Reda said.

The gunmen entered the building, rigged it with explosives and blew it up, the lieutenant said.

It was the fourth attack on police stations across the country in the past week. On June 5, gunmen killed seven policemen before blowing up the police station in Musayyib. The following day, gunmen believed loyal to radical Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr blasted a police station in the Sadr City area of Baghdad. Al-Sadr\'s followers overran a police station Thursday in Najaf and ransacked the building.

The attacks on police stations occurred as the U.S.-run occupation authority plans to hand over greater responsibility to Iraqi forces ahead of the June 30 transfer of sovereignty. U.S. officials acknowledge that the Iraqis lack sufficient training and equipment to handle the job without considerable U.S. and allied support after the transfer.

[Monkey Lib Front 10]

"Al-Sadr said he would cooperate with the new government on the condition that it provide a deadline for the end of the US-led occupation of Iraq."

You forgot to put bold letters on that part,which is the most important.The deadline which the interim gouverment isn`t hurrying even a tad to give.

Quote[/b] ] What a waste of lives

Indeed,of more then 50,000 Iraqis+900 coallition soldiers in the illegal war,more then 1.000 Iraqis in the useless siege of Fallujah that has strenghten the resistance,40 Iraqis at a wedding,thousands more because of the grose inabillity to provide security and the continuos frustration and fear of Iraqis concerning this occupation which made a radical cleric to have the support of 68% of the Iraqis,all this one year after the mission was accomplished and Iraqis sarted trowing flowers at US soldiers.

erm source your figures plz.

[Monkey Lib Front 10]

You may not like em but fox news does get some cool pics and vids

Huey and Cobra gunships engaging Iraqi Rep Gaurd

[theavonlady 2]

Anyone checked Ebay?

Quote[/b] ]UN inspectors: Saddam shipped out WMD before war and after

SPECIAL TO WORLD TRIBUNE.COM

Friday, June 11, 2004

The United Nations has determined that Saddam Hussein shipped weapons of mass destruction components as well as medium-range ballistic missiles before, during and after the U.S.-led war against Iraq in 2003.

The UN Monitoring, Verification and Inspection Commission briefed the Security Council on new findings that could help trace the whereabouts of Saddam's missile and WMD program.

The briefing contained satellite photographs that demonstrated the speed with which Saddam dismantled his missile and WMD sites before and during the war. Council members were shown photographs of a ballistic missile site outside Baghdad in May 2003, and then saw a satellite image of the same location in February 2004, in which facilities had disappeared.

UNMOVIC acting executive chairman Demetrius Perricos told the council on June 9 that "the only controls at the borders are for the weight of the scrap metal, and to check whether there are any explosive or radioactive materials within the scrap," Middle East Newsline reported.

"It's being exported," Perricos said after the briefing. "It's being traded out. And there is a large variety of scrap metal from very new to very old, and slowly, it seems the country is depleted of metal."

"The removal of these materials from Iraq raises concerns with regard to proliferation risks," Perricos told the council. Perricos also reported that inspectors found Iraqi WMD and missile components shipped abroad that still contained UN inspection tags.

He said the Iraqi facilities were dismantled and sent both to Europe and around the Middle East. at the rate of about 1,000 tons of metal a month. Destionations included Jordan, the Netherlands and Turkey.

The Baghdad missile site contained a range of WMD and dual-use components, UN officials said. They included missile components, reactor vessel and fermenters – the latter required for the production of chemical and biological warheads.

"It raises the question of what happened to the dual-use equipment, where is it now and what is it being used for," Ewen Buchanan, Perricos's spokesman, said. "You can make all kinds of pharmaceutical and medicinal products with a fermenter. You can also use it to breed anthrax."

The UNMOVIC report said Iraqi missiles were dismantled and exported to such countries as Jordan, the Netherlands and Turkey. In the Dutch city of Rotterdam, an SA-2 surface-to-air missile, one of at least 12, was discovered in a junk yard, replete with UN tags. In Jordan, UN inspectors found 20 SA-2 engines as well as components for solid-fuel for missiles.

"The problem for us is that we don't know what may have passed through these yards and other yards elsewhere," Buchanan said. "We can't really assess the significance and don't know the full extent of activity that could be going on there or with others of Iraq's neighbors."

UN inspectors have assessed that the SA-2 and the short-range Al Samoud surface-to-surface missile were shipped abroad by agents of the Saddam regime. Buchanan said UNMOVIC plans to inspect other sites, including in Turkey.

In April, International Atomic Energy Agency director-general Mohammed El Baradei said material from Iraqi nuclear facilities were being smuggled out of the country.

[Pathy 0]

*holds breath*....................

...............*thinks better of it*

[bucket man 2]

Isn't SA-2 an AA missile and not surface to surface missile that could be used to carry WMD's?

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]Isn't SA-2 an AA missile and not surface to surface missile that could be used to carry WMD's?

SA-2 can be modified for surface to surface usage. Furthermore, Iraq has used SA-2 engines on missiles (s to s) before and modified SA-2s too.

http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/iraq/facility/al_rafah.htm

Quote[/b] ]

Iraq also apparently had a program for modifying Soviet-supplied surface-to-air missiles for use against ground targets. The SA-2 was to be modified into the Fahd 300 and 500; the SA-3 was to be used to produce the Baraq, and the SA-6 was to be used to produce the Kasir.

http://www.janes.com/defence/news/jdw/jdw030214_1_n.shtml

Quote[/b] ]

Blix also confirmed that the two declared variants of the Al Samoud surface-to-surface missile were capable of exceeding the 150km range restriction imposed by theUN. In an October 2002 report the UK Government stated that the range of Al Samoud had been increased to 200km.

The Al Samoud is a liquid propellant missile with a 500mm diameter. However, in a December report to the UN Security Council Blix said that Iraq had declared a variant with a 760mm diameter.

Blix said that Iraq confirmed that it had imported 380 SA-2 engines to integrate with the Al Samoud, in contravention of resolution 687.

Quote[/b] ]

The missile's payload is thought to be around 300kg. UK and US sources claim that Iraq has the expertise to develop chemical or biological warheads for the system.

[denoir 0]

Anyone checked Ebay?

Quote[/b] ]UN inspectors: Saddam shipped out WMD before war and after

SPECIAL TO WORLD TRIBUNE.COM

Friday, June 11, 2004

.....

Ah, the "World Tribune", the bringer of such world headlines as "Hippopotamus in Kalinograd zoo gives birth for 24th time, breaks record".

Perhaps you should check where you take your news from Avon. Pick a more main stream source

http://news.google.com/news?hl....rl=http

and check against the conclusions they are trying to make in your article. What they have found is scrap metal from the Al-Samoud 2 rockets. There was actually a dispute if they were banned or not, as Iraq claimed that the guidance system limted their range. Anyway, regardless of that, how you can make WMD of scrap metal from rocket engines is well.. something that I would be interested to hear.

One thing they are also conveniently forgetting to mention is that because of lack of US control at the time of the invasion, sites with chemical and biological agents that were under UN seal were looted.

Incidentally at the outrbreak of war, Iraq was in the process of under UN supervision destroying all Al Samoud II missiles. That process was interrupted by coalition bombs. You can take a gues where the 80+ missiles that weren't destroyed went.

[theavonlady 2]

Anyone checked Ebay?

Quote[/b] ]UN inspectors: Saddam shipped out WMD before war and after

SPECIAL TO WORLD TRIBUNE.COM

Friday, June 11, 2004

.....

Ah, the "World Tribune", the bringer of such world headlines as "Hippopotamus in Kalinograd zoo gives birth for 24th time, breaks record".  

© Copyright 2004, Reuters, all rights reserved.

Quote[/b] ]

Perhaps you should check where you take your news from Avon. Pick a more main stream source

http://news.google.com/news?hl....rl=http

<a href="http://rds.yahoo.com/search/news/S=53720272/K=unmovic/v=2/SID=w/l=NSR/R=1/SIG=13p6urinq/*-http://news.ft.com/servlet/ContentServer?

pagename=FT.com/StoryFT/FullStory&c=StoryFT&cid=1086445581085&p=1012571727102" target="_blank">Financial Times</a>

NY Times

Quote[/b] ]and check against the conclusions they are trying to make in your article.

The headline says WMDs shipped out before and after the war. They state this is the UN's conclusions.

Quote[/b] ] What they have found is scrap metal from the Al-Samoud 2 rockets. There was actually a dispute if they were banned or not, as Iraq claimed that the guidance system limted their range. Anyway, regardless of that, how you can make WMD of scrap metal from rocket engines is well.. something that I would be interested to hear.

Both the World Hippo - er - Tribune and NYT articles refer to other things, particularly dual use items. Quote from the NYT article:

Quote[/b] ]His spokesman, Ewen Buchanan, said that items removed from the site included fermenters, a freeze drier, distillation columns, parts of missiles and a reactor vessel — all tools suitable for making biological or chemical weapons.

"It raises the question of what happened to the dual use equipment, where is it now and what is it being used for," Mr. Buchanan said.

He said that a fermenter was a good example of a dual use item that was potentially dangerous if it fell into the wrong hands. "You can make all kinds of pharmaceutical and medicinal products with a fermenter," he said. "You can also use it to breed anthrax.

Quote[/b] ]One thing they are also conveniently forgetting to mention is that because of lack of US control at the time of the invasion, sites with chemical and biological agents that were under UN seal were looted.

This was mentioned by the World Tribune in the first paragraph. At least I understood it as such:

Quote[/b] ]The United Nations has determined that Saddam Hussein shipped weapons of mass destruction components as well as medium-range ballistic missiles before, during and after the U.S.-led war against Iraq in 2003.

Quote[/b] ]Incidentally at the outrbreak of war, Iraq was in the process of under UN supervision destroying all Al Samoud II missiles. That process was interrupted by coalition bombs. You can take a gues where the 80+ missiles that weren't destroyed went.

Right under America's nose! You got me thinking.

[billybob2002 0]

EDIT....

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]and check against the conclusions they are trying to make in your article. What they have found is scrap metal from the Al-Samoud 2 rockets. There was actually a dispute if they were banned or not, as Iraq claimed that the guidance system limted their range. Anyway, regardless of that, how you can make WMD of scrap metal from rocket engines is well.. something that I would be interested to hear.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/world/20040610-103512-5542r.htm

Quote[/b] ]

Mr. Perricos told the council that the 20 SA-2 missile engines were discovered when U.N. experts visited "relevant scrap yards" in Jordan last week.

   The U.N. team also discovered some processing equipment with U.N. tags — which show that it was being monitored — including heat exchangers, and a solid propellant mixer bowl to make missile fuel, he said. It also discovered "a large number of other processing equipment without tags, in very good condition."

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tm....ctors_5

Quote[/b] ]

The U.N. team also discovered some processing equipment with U.N. tags — which show it was being monitored — including heat exchangers, and a solid propellant mixer bowl to make missile fuel, he said. It also discovered "a large number of other processing equipment without tags, in very good condition."

[denoir 0]

Washington Times? I'm impressed that they could spell "proliferation" correctly.

Anyway, you're both missing the point. The UN warned that things that could be used to produce WMD (or other harmeless things) have been found in Jordan, Holland and Turkey scrap yards. They did not find scrap parts of nuclear, biological or chemical weapons. That is WMD.

WMD is not defined as "stuff with wich you can make ice cream or anthrax with". And the UN report said nothing about WMD being exported at all. They've found some stuff that could potentially be used to produce BC weapons, but this covers a huge territory. A fermenter? A freeze drier? These two things are very common in medical applications, food processing, agrigculture etc... I'm surprised that they're not mentioning that they found a hammer and nails. It could be used to make all nasty stuff. Or empty bowls Or plastic bags Imagine how many bad nasty things you can put in a plastic bag

Seriously, if you feel like worrying over something, worry over this:

Quote[/b] ]Last month, The New York Times reported that large quantities of new reconstruction equipment and sensitive military material was being plundered in Iraq and trucked to Jordan to be sold as scrap. Mohamed El Baradei, director of the International Atomic Energy Agency, warned the Security Council in April that nuclear facilities were unguarded and that large amounts of material, some of it contaminated, were being smuggled out of the country.

[theavonlady 2]

Washington Times?   I'm impressed that they could spell "proliferation" correctly.

I'm unimpressed by your being impressed.

Quote[/b] ]Seriously, if you feel like worrying over something, worry over this

Absolutely. I recall such warnings about unguarded Iraqi nuclear facilities shortly after the capture of Baghdad.

One more everyday news, here's another one:

Quote[/b] ]Another Iraqi Government Official Killed

59 minutes ago

BAGHDAD, Iraq - Gunmen killed the Education Ministry's cultural affairs officer Sunday, the second attack on an Iraqi official in as many days, authorities said. Kamal al-Jarah, 63, was ambushed outside his home as he was leaving for work at about 7:30 a.m. The attack happened in a predominantly Sunni Muslim neighborhood of northwest Baghdad where support for Saddam Hussein (news - web sites)'s regime had been strong.

U.S. convoys have often come under attack in the neighborhood of Ghazaliya.

The official died of his wounds at the Yarmouk Hospital, said Abdul Khaliq al-Amri, a ministry official.

Al-Jarah was mainly responsible for dealing with exchange programs and relations with foreign countries and UNESCO (news - web sites). He had worked in the education field for 40 years, al-Amri said.

The attack came only one day after gunmen killed a deputy foreign minister as he went to work. Bassam Salih Kubba was Iraq (news - web sites)'s most senior career diplomat.

The attack on Kubba, a Sunni, was the second assassination of a senior Iraqi figure in the past month. The head of the now-disbanded Iraqi Governing Council, Izzadine Saleem, was killed in a suicide car-bombing May 17.

[billybob2002 0]

Quote[/b] ]Washington Times?   I'm impressed that they could spell "proliferation" correctly.

Taken from the yahoo link:

Quote[/b] ]

The U.N. team also discovered some processing equipment with U.N. tags — which show it was being monitored — including heat exchangers, and a solid propellant mixer bowl to make missile fuel, he said. It also discovered "a large number of other processing equipment without tags, in very good condition."

Same stuff but different link...

Quote[/b] ]One more everyday news, here's another one:

Bush & co. were right about it is going to be difficult days ahead.

[Baron Hurlothrumbo IIX 0]

Quote[/b] ]Washington Times? I'm impressed that they could spell "proliferation" correctly.

Taken from the yahoo link:

Quote[/b] ]

The U.N. team also discovered some processing equipment with U.N. tags — which show it was being monitored — including heat exchangers, and a solid propellant mixer bowl to make missile fuel, he said. It also discovered "a large number of other processing equipment without tags, in very good condition."

Same stuff but different link...

Quote[/b] ]One more everyday news, here's another one:

Bush & co. were right about it is going to be difficult days ahead.

'Missile' != 'WMD'.

[ralphwiggum 6]

Bush & co. were right about it is going to be difficult days ahead.

only after they realized that it was not going to be like the scenario they fantasized about.

[quicksand 0]

Car bomb attack on foreigners;Helicopter Crash;Clashes in Sadr City;Kurdish Cleric Gunned Down;Soldier killed etc.

Quote[/b] ]

BAGHDAD, Iraq - A car bomb exploded at rush hour Monday along one of central Baghdad's most heavily trafficked streets, killing at least 12 people. Witnesses said three civilian sport utility vehicles — the kind favored by Western contractors — passed by as the blast occurred.

The attack came a day after another car bomb killed a dozen people near a U.S. garrison in Baghdad and gunmen assassinated a senior Education Ministry official

All three of the SUVs were damaged, and one could be seen burning. Also, a two-story house was heavily damaged. At least one charred body was removed from the rubble.

Terrified bystanders dragged bloodied bodies and crammed them on the back of pickup trucks to rush them to hospitals.

Much of their anger was directed at Americans. Crowds shouted "Allahu Akbar," or "God is Great," and "Down with the U-S-A."

After trying in vain to restrain the crowd, American troops and police began leaving the area. The crowd, meanwhile, poured kerosene into a car and set it on fire.

It was the 16th car-bombing in Iraq (news - web sites) since the start of the month, U.S. officials said. On Sunday 12 people were killed in a similar attack near the U.S. Army's Camp Cuervo in eastern Baghdad. The dead included four policemen, officials said, but there were no American casualties.

Thirteen Iraqis were injured in the blast, which occurred about 9:15 a.m. after police flagged down a vehicle traveling on the wrong side of the road. The driver detonated the explosives as police approached.

A second member of the new Iraqi government was assassinated Sunday. Kamal al-Jarah, 63, the Education Ministry official in charge of contacts with foreign governments and the United Nations (news - web sites), was fatally shot outside his home in the city's Ghazaliya district, a predominantly Sunni Muslim neighborhood where support for Saddam Hussein (news - web sites) had been strong.

Al-Jarah's death occurred one day after Iraq's deputy foreign minister, Bassam Salih Kubba, was mortally wounded in another Sunni neighborhood while driving to work. The Foreign Ministry blamed Saddam loyalists for the killing.

Two other top Iraqi officials narrowly escaped death over the weekend in what appears to be a campaign to target key figures in the new Iraqi administration as it prepares to take power June 30.

The surge in violence in the capital occurred as fighting broke out Sunday around the Taji air base on the northern edge of the city. An American soldier was killed and two others were wounded during an ambush north of Taji, the command said. One assailant also was killed.

A U.S. Army OH-58 helicopter crashed near Taji later Sunday, but the two-member crew survived "in good condition," the U.S. command said. The cause of the crash and whether it was related to the fighting was unclear, but the U.S. command said there was no indication the aircraft was shot down.

Also in Baghdad, at least six people, including three Shiite militiaman, died in overnight clashes with U.S. troops in the capital's Sadr City neighborhood, Sheik Hassan al-Edhari, an aide to radical cleric Muqtada al-Sadr, said Sunday.

The violence in the capital, nearly two weeks before the formal end of the U.S.-led occupation, stunned the interim government, which had hoped to gain public support as the legitimate representatives of the Iraqi nation.

"These assassinations are an attempt to stop the march of Iraq toward complete sovereignty," Industry Minister Hakim al-Hasni told Al-Arabiya television. "They are not a resistance because they are resisting their own people. They are killing the highly qualified people. What kind of a resistance is this?"

During a visit Sunday to a new crossing point along the Iranian border, interim Prime Minister Iyad Allawi said his Cabinet was "discussing serious and drastic measures once sovereignty is transferred to take against terrorists and those trying to undermine the progress of Iraq." He did not elaborate.

Rather than going after top government figures who are well protected, the insurgents appear to be targeting middle and upper level officials who lack adequate security.

In Washington, Secretary of State Colin Powell (news - web sites) said U.S. forces would do "everything we can to "try to defeat these murderers." However, Powell told "Fox News Sunday" that "it's hard to protect an entire government."

The chief of Iraq's border police, Maj. Gen. Hussein Mustafa Abdul-Kareem, was slightly wounded Saturday in a shooting in Baghdad.

Police Maj. Gen. Majeed Almani Mahal was hospitalized with wounds received Saturday in an ambush in Baqouba, 40 miles northeast of Baghdad, officials said.

In Kirkuk, an ethically mixed northern oil center, gunmen killed a locally prominent Kurdish cleric, Iyad Khorshid, late Saturday, Police said. The preacher had spoken out recently against attacks on Iraqi infrastructure, police and civilians.

A former Baath party official, Rajaa Mohammed Ali, was gunned down Sunday near her home in Baqouba, police reported. Also, two employees of the U.S.-funded Iraqi television network were found dead near the Syrian border. The cause of death was not known.

American authorities had feared an escalation of violence in the run-up to the June 30 handover of sovereignty as insurgents seek to derail the process or discredit the new government.

The Americans hope that establishment of a sovereign Iraqi government will drain support for the insurgency, allowing security to improve so that balloting for an elected administration can be held by the end of January.

But militants — both Saddam loyalists and those with radical Islamic motivation — have long considered Iraqis who cooperate with the American-run occupation to be collaborators.

Although the new government is supposed to become sovereign, its top figures were all appointed in a process in which the American occupation authorities played a major role in the selections. Iraqis will not have an elected government until a national ballot planned by the end of January.

About 150,000 U.S. and other coalition troops will remain in the country to help improve security after June 30 under a U.N. resolution approved unanimously by the U.N. Security Council on Tuesday.

Hard days?This is total rampage..If the interim gouverment steps one foot outside the the protected Green Zone they are finished.

A few days ago I`ve read that US millitary wanted to stop chasing the resistance and concentrate on training the Iraqi police.So what in the hell are they thinking?That they will run out of Aks,RPGs and explosives sooner or later

[DarkLight 0]

A few days ago I`ve read that US millitary wanted to stop chasing the resistance and concentrate on training the Iraqi police.So what in the hell are they thinking?That they will run out of Aks,RPGs and explosives sooner or later  

In theory.... yes...

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

Oh I just love the way some american authors see it

Link: http://www.military.com/NewContent/0,13190,Topol_061404,00.html

Allan Topol: Strains in the Atlantic Alliance

June 14, 2004

We have just returned from a European trip, timed to coincide with the commemoration of D-Day. What I was searching for was some first-hand view of the state of American European relations. My sense was that with respect to the United States on the one hand, and France and Germany on the other at the top governmental level, the tensions are being pushed to the breaking point. Moreover, Chirac and Schroeder are the ones to blame for this situation.

Politicians love to stand in front of cameras so it wasn't surprising that Chirac was all smiles and graciousness when photographed with Bush. No one should be deluded by those smiles. The bitterness that began in the days preceding the war in Iraq has intensified at the government level.

And for good reason. It wasn't just that Chirac and Schroeder disagreed about the attack launched by the U.S. organized coalition. People disagree all the time. Even friends disagree. However, France and Germany did more than that. They waged an aggressive anti war and anti American campaign that was unjustified.

Fair minded people would have to say that it was a close question as to whether a war to unseat Saddam Hussein was the right course of action. Once it was clear Bush was committed to doing it, Chirac and Schroder should have with held their support if they disagreed. They shouldn't have tried to obstruct the coalition effort.

Now that a new Iraqi government has been named, a glimmer of hope has begun to emerge that the United States was right. That the Iraqi people will be better off in the near future than they were under Saddam Hussein. With this development, Chirac and Schroder should have stepped forward, embraced this hope and actually done what they can to nurture it by public statements and at the U.N. Instead, they have been stunningly silent.

This behavior can only be explained in terms of egos and petty jealousies of ruling leaders. In London we saw Michael Frayn's marvelous new play Democracy, which laid out numerous personal animosities of German leaders at the time of Willie Brandt's rule. Nothing has changed. Add to that, enormous resentment of the United States, ironically at the same time we are being remembered as European's savior sixty years ago.

In France I heard, among ordinary people, who still have a love for the United States, dismay that their leaders have let the relationship deteriorate, and it's hurting them economically. Americans have ceased traveling to France in droves. American firms are basing their European operations in London.

Some Germans we listened to were gloating over the conduct of American soldiers at Iraqi prisons. After all, they said, we've suffered for years about the conduct of our people. "You're no better than we were."

Again, there is an economic price to pay. The Germans are upset about the removal of U.S. troops from Germany. They don't want our military to wage war, but they sure like the boost it provides to their economy.

On the continent, there is no willingness to acknowledge that terrorists the coalition kills in the Middle East will not one day blow up a French or German train. Or that our efforts are ensuring the continued flow of Middle Eastern oil which is the lynchpin for their societies. This is not surprising coming from people whose willingness to face reality led to the war whose end we are now commemorating.

England is another matter. Debates are being waged about the Iraqi war as they are in the United States. But concern about the price of petrol has pushed Iraqi issues down on the front page of newspapers.

There continues to be enormous hesitation on the part of the British to jump into the common market with both feet. I often wonder if given a chance whether most Britains would prefer to become the fifty-first state rather than a full fledged member of the EU.

We heard nothing of these significant political developments when we wandered around hill towns of Umbria and southeastern Tuscany. The landscape hasn't changed since the middle ages. The economy is vibrant. Prosperity visible.

The sun shines. The food and wine are marvelous. And Iraq seems millions of miles away. I'm not sure why we came home.

[quicksand 0]

Iran massing troops on Iraq border

Quote[/b] ]Beirut, Lebanon, Jun. 15 (UPI) -- Iran reportedly is readying troops to move into Iraq if U.S. troops pull out, leaving a security vacuum.

The Saudi daily Al-Sharq al-Awsat, monitored in Beirut, reports Iran has massed four battalions at the border.

Al-Sharq al-Awsat quoted "reliable Iraqi sources" as saying, "Iran moved part of its regular military forces towards the Iraqi border in the southern sector at a time its military intelligence agents were operating inside Iraqi territory."

This could be an important development..

[ran 0]

cool, soon a new Iran-Iraq war .... I hope the media coverage will be good, there aren't much war movies on TV these days

....

[Scorpio 0]

What the hell are they doing there?

[ralphwiggum 6]

building Iranian empire.

Considering that Iran recently wanted designation as a nuclear power, i won't be surprised if they are trying to be the next bully on the block.

On top of that, their internal social structure is ripe for instability as a good number of population seem to be moving away from Homeni's boys. A way(not the best way) is to vent/redirect situation outward, just like Falklands/Malvinas, Hitler.

Or Iran has nothing better to do and is trying to force US to stay and sustain more bleeding, or solidify US's occupation longer.

Recent accusations of Chalabi kind of goes well with this IMO. He wanted to buy favors for Iranians, while looking forward to being the first PM of Iraq. a good gesture would have been to tell Iran that their encryption system is compromised i guess.

[theavonlady 2]

a good gesture would have been to tell Iran that their encryption system is compromised i guess.

That's old news!

Quote[/b] ]Report: Israel broke Iranian code

By YAAKOV KATZ

Mar. 2, 2004

A secret Israeli intelligence unit, known as Unit 8200, broke a sophisticated Iranian code enabling Israel to monitor communications, including contacts with Pakistan regarding the development of Iranian nuclear weapons, the New Yorker magazine reported on Tuesday.

"On a trip to the Middle East last month, I was told that a number of years ago the Israeli signals-intelligence agency, known as Unit 8200, broke a sophisticated Iranian code and began monitoring communications that included talk between Iran and Pakistan about Iran's burgeoning nuclear-weapons program" Investigative reporter Seymour M. Hersh wrote in the article.

[billybob2002 0]

Oh crap....

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm....funeral

Quote[/b] ]

Iraqi Shiites Blame Police for Killings

Tue Jun 15,10:48 AM ET  

By SAMEER N. YACOUB, Associated Press Writer

BAGHDAD, Iraq - Dozens of angry Shiites accused Fallujah police Tuesday of handing over Shiite truck drivers to Sunni extremists who slaughtered them after they sought refuge at a police station. Iraqi authorities denied the charge.

Quote[/b] ]

On their return trip to Baghdad on June 5, the drivers were stopped by armed men who identified themselves as "mujahedeen," fighters who battled Marines to a standstill in April.

Quote[/b] ]

The six drivers escaped and sought refuge in a police station, the mourners said. However, they were handed over to a hard-line Sunni cleric because they were Shiites, the mourners said.

Quote[/b] ]

A 12-year-old boy, Mohammed Khudeir, said he was among those allegedly handed over by the police. But the cleric and his followers let him go, apparently because of his age.

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"We tried to seek police protection, but the policemen handed us over," Khudeir said. He said the cleric "handed us over to a group of Arabs who spoke with non-Iraqi accents. I was tortured for a while, but then I was released."

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The hard-line cleric to whom the police reportedly handed over the men dismissed claims he was involved in the killings, but said he was ready to stand trial in an Islamic court if credible evidence against him was provided.

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One man, Alaa Mery, said that on June 8, he went to Fallujah to negotiate for the hostages' release. He said he met with some Syrians who identified themselves as members of the extremist Wahhabist sect predominant in Saudi arabia and said they were holding the drivers because they collaborated with the Americans.

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"Fallujah clerics and people made a big fuss regarding Abu Ghraib torture, but now they are killing and mutilating Muslims," Mery said, referring to the American abuse of Iraqis at the Abu Ghraib prison. "They are not resistance. They are a copy of Saddam."

And who said that their are no non-iraqi fighters in the Fallujah area......