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Consigliere

Women in the military

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Quote[/b] ]I dont think people would except to find gory pictures when they see "Adult section"

We can compromise and have pictures of porn stars being shot blues.gifblues.gifghostface.gif .

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Well people don't signup to their national armed forces to kill and especially not to get killed. rock.gif

Agreed! The military isn't just about killing, has everyone forgotten about hearts and minds operations? Im joining to save lives and not just the lives of my fellow soldiers, the lives of people from different countries with different religions etc. in some cases putting my own life at risk to do so. I'll have to kill, I know this, but it isn't why im joining at all.

Edit: On-topic... tounge_o.gif

Women in the military - 'Why fix something that isnt broken?'

I think its perfect the way it is.

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Quote[/b] ]Women in the military - 'Why fix something that isnt broken?'

The U.S. military is definitely suffering from integration, especially the double standards in physical testing. Equality is a good concept, but not when many of the women onboard Navy ships can't carry a stretcher up a ladder mad_o.gifcrazy_o.gif .

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Well knowing jackshit about the US Military I'll pointout my post is referring to the British Armed Forces (not to certain about the RAF)  smile_o.gif

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And I know nothing about the UK's experience with women in the military tounge_o.gif .

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Women are allowed in all fields apart from Submarines, combat infantry and armoured corps.

Yes most military action is nowadays getting more orientated towards protecting interests by gaining cooperation, thus the humanitarian effort is now a large part of a lot of military actions.

But let's look at Chechnya, do you think the soldiers there are loving the experience and think the military is an eye opening and opportunity expanding enitity. I doubt it somehow, as they roll over people in armoured vehicles i would think they are more likely to be thoroughly depressed and want to go home. I find it really depressing that people cannot see my point, i am not saying that the military is a death machine that you join to kill and get killed, i'm saying that killing is a fundamental part of it.

Maybe all the euphamisms for death are blinding you, when they say "Tank has been neutralized" they mean 4 people were just ripped apart inside a metal tomb. When they say "Splash one Bandit" they mean a highly intelligent individual who has worked hard to become a pilot and would like to progress to become a civilian airline pilot has actually just been burned alive screaming to death inside an aircraft. Or how about "he's down", this actually means someone is lying on the ground in shock as he desperately hangs on to life with a large hole through his gut, he can see his breakfast.

Nah, i'm sure people are sensible enough to realise this is what happens. You don't need grumpy old Jinef telling you.

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Women are allowed in all fields apart from Submarines, combat infantry and armoured corps.

Yes most military action is nowadays getting more orientated towards protecting interests by gaining cooperation, thus the humanitarian effort is now a large part of a lot of military actions.

But let's look at Chechnya, do you think the soldiers there are loving the experience and think the military is an eye opening and opportunity expanding enitity. I doubt it somehow, as they roll over people in armoured vehicles i would think they are more likely to be thoroughly depressed and want to go home. I find it really depressing that people cannot see my point, i am not saying that the military is a death machine that you join to kill and get killed, i'm saying that killing is a fundamental part of it.

Maybe all the euphamisms for death are blinding you, when they say "Tank has been neutralized" they mean 4 people were just ripped apart inside a metal tomb. When they say "Splash one Bandit" they mean a highly intelligent individual who has worked hard to become a pilot and would like to progress to become a civilian airline pilot has actually just been burned alive screaming to death inside an aircraft. Or how about "he's down", this actually means someone is lying on the ground in shock as he desperately hangs on to life with a large hole through his gut, he can see his breakfast.

Nah, i'm sure people are sensible enough to realise this is what happens. You don't need grumpy old Jinef telling you.

bravo

I agree with you and one just has to look back in history that death and killings are fundamental to military activities

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Maybe all the euphamisms for death are blinding you, when they say "Tank has been neutralized" they mean 4 people were just ripped apart inside a metal tomb. When they say "Splash one Bandit" they mean a highly intelligent individual who has worked hard to become a pilot and would like to progress to become a civilian airline pilot has actually just been burned alive screaming to death inside an aircraft. Or how about "he's down", this actually means someone is lying on the ground in shock as he desperately hangs on to life with a large hole through his gut, he can see his breakfast.

I think you are missing the basic operating principle of the military. You are killing the enemy who is bad by definition. There is a very good reason to why they say "tank neutralized" and "splash one bandit". It's a purposeful detatchment. Without it a military could not function.

The funny thing is the schitzofrenia of today's politics of war. "We're helping the Iraqi people by dropping cluster bombs on them"

I don't know, perhaps it's a good thing that moral aspects are instered in warfare - even though today it's plain hypocracy and quite absurd. But perhaps in the end it does raise consciousness...

Regardless, we've obviously not evolved to the point where we can handle conflicts without killing. Until then the military provides a neat clean package to deal with it. The enemy is evil and your cause is just. It has to be that way, and it has to be detached from normal life ethics. No point in thinking too much about it. And for a soldier it's only auto-destructive to think about it. All a soldier needs to be sure of is that the enemy is evil and that his cause is just.

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I don't think Jinef is missing the principle, he is just trying to explain the reality to some people... but anyway.. how about an Adult Section? lol Or Mature?

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No point in thinking too much about it. And for a soldier it's only auto-destructive to think about it. All a soldier needs to be sure of is that the enemy is evil and that his cause is just.

Of course in the field the enemy is "evil" but that's only because they just shot your buddy or to make it easier to kill him. Don't think it's an easy thing killing someone. It has a major impact on the soldier. Thinking that he did the right thing and that the enemy is evil just makes it easier to understand. A lot of soldiers come back frustrated or traumatized.

I know a few guys who went to Bosnia and served with DuthBat to defend Sebreniza. Bosnia is a perfect example of a war in which soldiers have to much to think about and no enemy to fight. These soldiers had to watch the enemy slaughter civilians and children for no real reason. These UN soldiers couldn't do a thing about it. (Dutch soldiers where even ordered to stand guard with unlaoded rifles and with no mags on them). I can tel you none of these guys thought that they were doing the right thing. I can recommend watching the BBC movie "warriors". It shows how much frustration build up among (british) UN soldiers.

back on topic:

Quote[/b] ]The U.S. military is definitely suffering from integration, especially the double standards in physical testing. Equality is a good concept, but not when many of the women onboard Navy ships can't carry a stretcher up a ladder .
AGREE!! If the female soldiers are not as good as the males, than some day they will be responsible for the death of a fellow soldier! I will join the Marine Corps in my country and I thank god on my knees that women aren't allowed there.

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Quote[/b] ]BBC movie "warriors". It shows how much frustration build up among (british) UN soldiers.

Seen the movie. Generally a great movie.

Reality indeed is the reality there.

I will try to explain that to you.

When i go on a mission i leave my country behind.

I change to another reality, the mission reality.

Everything that i experience there i take as totally normal and given. You live there. You see a lot of things and do a lot of things that you can´t even imagine here in my home country. But that´s given.

After a while at home you get some "Brain-bad-taste", not depressions, but you think about certain extraheavy things.

This way it works for me for a long time as a soldier and i hope it will work on that way.

Just my 2 cents.

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But let's look at Chechnya, do you think the soldiers there are loving the experience and think the military is an eye opening and opportunity expanding enitity.

I doubht they are, but isn't a large part of Russia's military in Cechnya conscripts? Or is that still a very small base of people?

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I think what Jinef is saying can be summed up nicely if a tad flippantly by some graffiti I saw outside my local AFCO;

Quote[/b] ]Join the army, meet interesting people and kill them

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The military is not about killing and dying. Killing and dying is the ugly part of the military that noone wants but is often nessesary.

Saying that the military is about killing and dying is like saying the police is about shooting badguys and putting kids in jail.

On the car insurance thing I do think it is sexist but I dont mind because they are probably right. If it was the other way around though you bet your ass the feminists would be all over this because it is descriminating, but now its better for women so they dont care. If men drive more and crash more its not so strange that they should pay more. If women dont drive at all and just let the car stand in the garage, the insurance company really doesnt care as long as they dont crash it. Its not about how often you crash compared to how often you drive, its just about how often you crash.

Its very stupid that women have easier tests to join the military (or anything else). In the military there are no men and women, there are soldiers. There are soldiers that can do theire jobs, and there are soldiers that cant do theire jobs. All this equal stuff is just nuts. They try to make it more equal but get the opposite effect. Instead of having equal tests they have tests that are not equal to make the numbers in service more equal. This is so crazy.

One funny thing about feminists is that they dont like the magazines for men with partially naked women in them. To show how wrong it is they make a magazine with completely naked men (and get no reaction ofcourse because they are the only fanatics). It is funny how you think something is wrong and want to show it by making something that is even more "wrong". If I think killing is wrong I dont go and kill your mother to prove my point.

Another funny thing they do is that they go and spraypaint commercial for women underwear where there are pictures in public places of women wearing only underwear, ofcourse they dont have the same reaction to the commercial for male underwear. Also the animals rights activists release animals into the wild that are breed for theire fur. This way they go off and die in the forest instead because they cant survive in the wild. They protest about breeding animals for theire furs because they say they care about the animals, so naturally the only sane thing to do is to release them into the wild and let them starve to death. I think feminists and animals right activists are kinda the same, fanatics with very little brain power.

Another funny group of people is "Reclaim the Streets", I dont know exactly what they are about but they go out and vandalise. If they want to reclaim something, why destroy it first?

People are just mad at stuff and need to let some steam out, so they stop using theire brains and start acting instead because it makes them feel good. If they could only stop for a second and think.

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