Egyptian plane crashes near sharm el-sheikh

[ran 0]

Quote[/b] ]Egyptian Plane Crashes Into Sea; All 148 Die

Sat January 3, 2004 12:52 PM ET

(Page 1 of 2)

By Opheera McDoom

SHARM EL-SHEIKH, Egypt (Reuters) - An Egyptian Boeing 737 carrying 148 people, most of them French tourists on New Year family holidays, crashed into the Red Sea off the resort of Sharm el-Sheikh Saturday, killing all on board.

The plane, operated by Egyptian charter company Flash Airlines, disappeared from radar screens minutes after take-off from Sharm el-Sheikh airport at 0244 GMT and crashed into deep water a few miles to the southeast.

Egypt's civil aviation minister, Ahmed Mohamed Shafiq Zaki, said the cause of the crash was "entirely technical," and a senior aide said there was no sign of terrorism.

"There was a problem at take-off," France's deputy transport minister Dominique Bussereau told reporters at Paris's Charles de Gaulle airport, the charter's final destination. "It tried to turn back and when trying to do this it crashed."

Zaki said the pilot might have been planning to turn back but did not do so. Technical problems might account for the pilot's failure to tell the control tower that the plane was in trouble, he told Reuters at Sharm el-Sheikh airport.

The French government said there were 133 French passengers aboard, and a French medical official said many of them were children on family holidays. It said the other two passengers were a Moroccan man and a Japanese woman.

Officials said there had been 13 Egyptian crew aboard, some of them off duty.

Egyptian military aircraft and ships, helped by small boats from nearby diving centers, launched a rescue operation at first light. Eyewitnesses said they were finding pieces of human bodies but no complete corpses and no survivors.

"There's lots of personal stuff, small bags and toys. We have collected very small pieces of the plane but the body of the plane has sunk," said one rescue worker.

"The chances of finding complete bodies look slim because of the force with which the plane hit the surface of the water," said local authority spokesman Yasser Imam.

The plane was heading for Cairo to refuel, change crew and take on more passengers before flying on to Paris.

French Prime Minister Jean-Pierre Raffarin and Transport Minister Gilles de Robien rushed to Charles de Gaulle airport, where distraught friends and relatives who had gone to meet the flight were being told of the crash.

JUDICIAL INQUIRY

French Justice Minister Dominique Preben asked prosecutors to open a judicial inquiry for manslaughter, saying this would provide a legal framework for French and Egyptian investigators to work together to find the cause of the crash.

Egyptian Foreign Minister Ahmed Maher said Egyptian authorities would run the investigation. French experts would be welcome, but "what matters is to find out the truth, and Egypt has enough capacity and experience to find out the truth."

The crash coincided with intense U.S. concern about possible attacks on civilian airliners, which has led to the cancellation of seven U.S.-bound flights in just over a week.

The plane crashed in the Strait of Tiran, between the Sinai peninsula and Saudi Arabia, where the water is hundreds of meters (feet) deep -- too deep for divers to reach the flight recording devices, diving school managers said.

Zaki said evidence from witnesses and equipment on the ground suggested the crew had lost control shortly after take-off because of a technical fault and crashed while trying to bring the plane back on course at low altitude.

He said France was sending some equipment and experts on Sunday to help the investigation.

French President Jacques Chirac telephoned his Egyptian counterpart Hosni Mubarak to obtain details of the crash and expressed his "deepest shock" at the tragedy, his office said.

Flash Airlines is an Egyptian charter airline based in Cairo and flying to European cities. It flew two Boeing 737-300 planes manufactured in 1993, according to its Web site.

The plane was maintained regularly in Norway and there was no sign of any mechanical fault before its last flight, the official Egyptian news agency MENA reported.

Sharm el-Sheikh, a major diving resort, is considered one of the most secure places in Egypt because of its isolation and Mubarak's frequent presence. Police man checkpoints on the paved roads into the resort and check travelers' identities.

The last major crash involving an Egyptian plane took place in May 2002, when a Boeing 767 belonging to the state airline EgyptAir crashed near Tunis airport, killing 15 people.

In October 1999, an EgyptAir Boeing 767 plunged into the sea off Nantucket, Massachusetts, killing all 217 people on board.

Reuters page

-edit-: could a mod please correct the mistake i made at Sharm El-Sheikh

[shadow 6]

I just heard about it an hour ago.

This is terrible. No, worse, a catastrophe.

My condolences to the familys left behind.

Just saw a interview on tv, a norwegian man who had flown with the same company a year ago. He was considering switching airline during a middle-landing. The plane started taxiing before people had sat down and all the handbaggages cabins were open etc.

Makes me wonder how the maintenance was done on the plane that went down.

[Badgerboy 0]

The fleet was comprised of 737's, made around 1993. They were usually serviced in Norway.

[bn880 5]

Yes this is terrible indeed...

but it should start to ring some bells finally as to the life expectency of some aircraft. I don't agree that any aircraft can be guaranteed to be 100% safe for the life span Boeing suggests. There are various components that will not be replaced if no defects are visible through inspection, and any mechanical/aerospace engineer without a knife at his throat can tell you, you can't wait to spot defects for some parts, you must replace them anyway after some flight hours. That includes entire wiring/computer systems, structural components etc. Making the whole maintenance process exceed the cost of a new plane..

[ran 0]

I never fly on Boeing planes ....... so much problems and flaws ........ a good old C160 Transall anytime .... or a business class on an Air France A320 ...........

well , this is a tragedy , but yet the causes are unexplained , investigations have just started and we won't know anything until the black boxes are retrieved

TV footages shown here of the famillies arriving and waiting at Roissy/CDG were quite disturbing

[python3 0]

yeah, its really sad. I mean they camr from a great vacation destination and then that happens. Really feel bad for the victims. They say the water where the plane crashed is really deep and divers can not go that far down to retrieve the black boxes. Maybe they will use submersibles or something else?

[ran 0]

yeah, its really sad. I mean they camr from a great vacation destination and then that happens. Really feel bad for the victims. They say the water where the plane crashed is really deep and divers can not go that far down to retrieve the black boxes. Maybe they will use submersibles or something else?

french equipment is on its way

[Acecombat 0]

Oh god i heard this terrible news myself , its a tragedy indeed kids on holidays and on return this ...

So according to the authorities the plane went down ? It didnt explode first or anything ? So wouldnt the people have a chance of survival? I mean if the pilot had glided or sorta made a rough landing on the water maybe they could have atleast survived the downfall and then float/wait for backup? .... maybe this theory of mine is seriously flawed nd bull but i do remember a Indonesian or malaysian or maybe a Singaporean pilot do the same with a problm striken aircraft by softly landing it on a river by glidling it straight through , all passengers survived (i think) excpet one who probably fell in the water on landing...

Still its a very horrific way to die i'd rather have a bullet in my head then die such a painful slow death underwater...

[python3 0]

i think a plane crashed off the coast of benin on route to Lebanon. Crashed over the water too. Some of the passengers survived though. The 737 must have went down much harder. Really sad news though

[waffendennis 0]

my condeleances to the family's of the people who have gone to their next place.

[Major Gripe 0]

Oh god i heard this terrible news myself , its a tragedy indeed kids on holidays and on return this ...

So according to the authorities the plane went down ? It didnt explode first or anything ? So wouldnt the people have a chance of survival? I mean if the pilot had glided or sorta made a rough landing on the water maybe they could have atleast survived the downfall and then float/wait for backup? .... maybe this theory of mine is seriously flawed nd bull but i do remember a Indonesian or malaysian or maybe a Singaporean pilot do the same with a problm striken aircraft by softly landing it on a river by glidling it straight through , all passengers survived (i think) excpet one who probably fell in the water on landing...

Still its a very horrific way to die i'd rather have a bullet in my head then die such a painful slow death underwater...

From what I've read it wasn't a smooth landing at all. The pilot didn't have any control and the plane crashed with some force. Apparently no complete corpses have been found only body parts, which illustrates how hard an impact it was. It would be the impact that killed them not drowning but its still a really shitty way to die, I wonder if the passengers knew the plane was going down?

[ran 0]

I wonder if the passengers knew the plane was going down?

you tend to feel these things .. especially seating when in a 15 degrees descent

[Pipski 0]

maybe this theory of mine is seriously flawed nd bull but i do remember a Indonesian or malaysian or maybe a Singaporean pilot do the same with a problm striken aircraft by softly landing it on a river by glidling it straight through , all passengers survived (i think) excpet one who probably fell in the water on landing...

Is that the one that the holidaymaker got the footage of? Big passenger plane brought in to a perfect flat landing in the sea about 150m off the beach? Nice piece of piloting iirc.

Quote[/b] ]

I wonder if the passengers knew the plane was going down?

What a strange thing to say!

[ozanzac 0]

Minutes after take-off. Probably an engine failure. And if the maintainance of this aircraft was poor, it would have put excessive load on the second engine, causing it to fail too.

Tradgedy's like this should no longer be acceptable. Airlines have the responsibility to provide safe traveling conditions for its passengers. And aircraft maintainance should never be compromised.

[ozanzac 0]

Quote[/b] ]Quote (Major Gripe @ Jan. 04 2004,03:01)

maybe this theory of mine is seriously flawed nd bull but i do remember a Indonesian or malaysian or maybe a Singaporean pilot do the same with a problm striken aircraft by softly landing it on a river by glidling it straight through , all passengers survived (i think) excpet one who probably fell in the water on landing...

Is that the one that the holidaymaker got the footage of?  Big passenger plane brought in to a perfect flat landing in the sea about 150m off the beach?  Nice piece of piloting iirc.

That plane had been hijacked, ran out of fuel, and the pilot put it down in a way which gave passengers a maximum chance of survival. More than one passenger died in that incident, but most on-board did survive. It was a truly commendable peice of flying.

Edit: It was an Ethiopean Air 767, hijacked and destined for Australia. 127 people were killed. Including all the hijackers.

[Acecombat 0]

The incident i was talking about wasnt a hijacking but a genuine engine failure with the plane.

The airline i cant remember which one was it but it was definitely South East Asian.

[Dauragon 0]

I never fly on Boeing planes ....... so much problems and flaws ........ a good old C160 Transall anytime .... or a business class on an Air France A320 ...........

well , this is a tragedy , but yet the causes are unexplained , investigations have just started and we won't know anything until the black boxes are retrieved

TV footages shown here of the famillies arriving and waiting at Roissy/CDG were quite disturbing

since when do you choose what aircraft you fly in when you reserve a ticket ?

[ran 0]

I never fly on Boeing planes ....... so much problems and flaws ........ a good old C160 Transall anytime .... or a business class on an Air France A320 ...........

well , this is a tragedy , but yet the causes are unexplained , investigations have just started and we won't know anything until the black boxes are retrieved

TV footages shown here of the famillies arriving and waiting at Roissy/CDG were quite disturbing

since when do you choose what aircraft you fly in when you reserve a ticket ?

since compagnies tell you about the type of plane used by each flight

CSA and Air France for exemple inform the users about the type of plane used

i never fly on charters and second-zone compagnies , only national flag carriers and military transports

[Badgerboy 0]

The incident i was talking about wasnt a hijacking but a genuine engine failure with the plane.

The airline i cant remember which one was it but it was definitely South East Asian.

I know the incident you are speaking of, it was filmed by a holiday maker.

And it wasn't a smooth landing! Loads of people were killed in that incident.

I don't think any large civil jet aircraft has ever succesfully ditched properly into the sea. With the giant wingspan, its impossible to keep the wings perfectly level, so if a wingtip just so much as clips the water, the plane will start to roll/yaw and break up.

Only one I saw on film was an RAF Nimrod (Basically a Comet), and it was a perfect ditch. The crew had time to evacuate the a/c, inflate their rafts, and row off. Probably the only large 4 engined jet aircraft to do so well.

[Acecombat 0]

The incident i was talking about wasnt a hijacking but a genuine engine failure with the plane.

The airline i cant remember which one was it but it was definitely South East Asian.

I know the incident you are speaking of, it was filmed by a holiday maker.

And it wasn't a smooth landing! Loads of people were killed in that incident.

I don't think any large civil jet aircraft has ever succesfully ditched properly into the sea. With the giant wingspan, its impossible to keep the wings perfectly level, so if a wingtip just so much as clips the water, the plane will start to roll/yaw and break up.

Only one I saw on film was an RAF Nimrod (Basically a Comet), and it was a perfect ditch. The crew had time to evacuate the a/c, inflate their rafts, and row off. Probably the only large 4 engined jet aircraft to do so well.

No i am sorry but that isnt the one IIRC and am correct in my memory i read about it in Readers Digest , but i cant remember which flight or where it happened .... and it wasnt filmed at all it happenednear country sides and the plane glided over a river and came to haltby a bridge...

[robbo 0]

Quote[/b] ]Hunt starts for Egyptian jet's flight recorder

By Opheera McDoom

Cairo

January 5, 2004

A team of French experts was expected in Egypt overnight with special equipment to track down the flight recording device of an Egyptian plane that crashed, killing all 148 people on board.

The Boeing 737 crashed into the Red Sea off the resort of Sharm al-Sheik, where British Prime Minister Tony Blair and his family were on holiday.

Security around Mr Blair was immediately stepped up. The disaster happened soon after take-off, only hours before his wife, Cherie, and their four children were due to fly home from the same airport.

Although officials said there was no indication that the plane was brought down by a terrorist attack, the proximity of Mr Blair and Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak, who was also on holiday in Sharm al-Sheik, raised suspicions.

The tragedy followed a week of terrorist alerts that led to several flight cancellations in Europe and America because of fears over suicide bombers.

The jet, which was due to refuel in Cairo before heading for Paris, disappeared from radar screens two minutes after take-off. Most of the dead were French tourists on New Year holidays.

Search and rescue teams made slow progress as they trawled the waters of the Red Sea.

The Governor of the Egyptian province of South Sinai, which includes the swimming and diving resort, said the teams had picked up parts of 12 or 13 bodies on Saturday.

The rescue teams will seek clues to what went wrong on board the airliner, operated by the private Egyptian charter company Flash Airlines.

The French experts will also try to locate the flight recorders.

A spokeswoman for Boeing said it was too early to speculate about what happened, "even though the reports are saying it was mechanical".

- Reuters, Telegraph

Interesting to see that the Blair family were about to leave from the same place

[ozanzac 0]

Quote[/b] ]I never fly on Boeing planes ....... so much problems and flaws.

I never fly on charters and second-zone compagnies , only national flag carriers and military transports

Hey look, it's Rainman.

[theavonlady 1]

Can anyone who reads Finnish, tell us what relevant facts about this charter company or this plane can be found in this Finnish paper's article?

[Gollum1 0]

It basically says that in October the same plane that crashed had made a routine flight to Kruunupyy (about 100 km from where I live) and some of the interviewed passengers say that they swore never to travel with that airline again.

It felt like the plane was going to fall apart, nothing worked, the captain was smoking in the cockpit and the smoke was directed into the passenger area through the ventilating system. Terrible, overall.

[Acecombat 0]

Sue the bas**** i say.

Must be saving money on the maintenance putting everyones life at risk.

Btw i heard someone told me that FOX first said that it was a terrorist attack? Is this true