North korea threat poll

[theavonlady 2]

Quite ironic that couple of buried chemical mortar shells in Iraq gets plenty of airtime while Kim gets to openly perform experiments with chemical weapons on his own people.

So, should a world coalition get together and pressure the NK to stop the killings and allow international access to prisoners in NK concentration camps?

[Balschoiw 0]

Quote[/b] ]So, should a world coalition get together and pressure the NK to stop the killings and allow international access to prisoners in NK concentration camps?

Ever heard of the UN ?

That´s the place where this should be decided. Anyway I don´t see the point of your post.

[denoir 0]

Well, what should you do with a country that gases its own people to death

Yes I agree, gas chambers are nasty. Is it California and the states around there that use it, or do they use  injection?

Well, anyway, better than the electric chair, I suppose.

Seems blood is cheap lately in Sweden.

Not quite sure that I get your point, but we don't kill our citizens in any way.

[theavonlady 2]

Quote[/b] ]So, should a world coalition get together and pressure the NK to stop the killings and allow international access to prisoners in NK concentration camps?

Ever heard of the UN ?

That´s the place where this should be decided. Anyway I don´t see the point of your post.

Well then, shouldn't everyone get together at the UN and try to do something?

That was exactly the point of my post.

[ozanzac 0]

Quote[/b] ]So, should a world coalition get together and pressure the NK to stop the killings and allow international access to prisoners in NK concentration camps?

Ever heard of the UN ?

That´s the place where this should be decided. Anyway I don´t see the point of your post.

Well then, shouldn't everyone get together at the UN and try to do something?

That was exactly the point of my post.

It's not like human rights abuses, Nuclear Weapons programs, Ballistic Missile programs, drought and starvation in North Korea is only just beginning to get the attention of the U.N. , hell, the DMZ is 50 years old. And lets not forget that the Korean war was effectively a UN 'police action'.

Unfortunatly, it seems North Koreas biggest tiff is with the U.S., and up until recently, the DPRK was reluctant to talk with any other party except the Americans.

Apparently, our government sent a delegation to North Korea on Saturday and is under the impression that it (the delegation) will be able to make a real impact on peace talks.

Source: Australia begins talks with North Korea

[GoOB 0]

Well, what should you do with a country that gases its own people to death, Nazi experiment style?

Quote[/b] ]Witnesses have described watching entire families being put in glass chambers and gassed. They are left to an agonising death while scientists take notes. The allegations offer the most shocking glimpse so far of Kim Jong-il's North Korean regime.

I agree completely, from what I see and hear in media it seems that NK is a really opressive country. With tales of work camps á la Siberian Gulags but a step up the ladder with the occassional nerve gas test. And I really don't wish that on anyone or anything... Nor do I feel good about that the UN or any other world authority is sitting idly by. Even without the work camps NK seems to be a horrible country. With children starving and being forced to almost worship the small man with the funny hairdoo.

I once visited the former deathcamp at Dachau, watching the information plaques with clever re-writes such as "political prisoners" and similar things to make the fact that people were actually killed, tortured, maimed, abused, spit on, raped and treated like below dirt for no other reason than being gay, jewish, Russian or what have you.

[MSpencer 0]

We can't really touch North Korea unless they touch us first. If we do, we'll have china crawling all over SE Asia, and that will not be fun. Of course, North Korea is worse than Iraq, but did we have the PLA ready to march all over 1/3 of the world if we attacked them?

Communists normally stick together with communists.

On a lighter note, if they do attack, China can't help them out really, unless they planned it together.

Of course, the outcome of this war would be something like 10-20,000 US Marine casualties, less for the Army because it would take them so long to get there, and less for the Air Force because they're not a typical fighting unit. The Navy would also suffer. If you want to go to war with Korea, be ready to lose a lot of people, with the right motivation, even the most docile farmer can become a trained killing machine ready to cut down anything that moves.

[EiZei 0]

Communists normally stick together with communists.

Like China and USSR?

[Balschoiw 0]

Let´s face it.

China will try to seddle the conflict with the US. They already have started initiative. China is of course happy to have all eyes on North Korea. Noone would think the chinese may have bad plans for some day. Their military explosion goes merely unnoticed.

North Korea is in an extremely critical state right now. US cut their oil deliveries, UN halted the food programs because they got kicked out and a moviemaniac Leader of the country KIM Chong-il got some really impressive toys.

People are starving, their chief of state is running wild and they have a military with uncertain personel.

Any incident started from south korea or elsewhere could be a really bad thing. Don´t underestimate KIM. He´s a maniac and noone really knows what he would do.

Any move made on the diplomatic dancefloor has to be very careful. A military solution is not possible for the USA atm. They don´t have sufficient capacity at hand. KIM knows that and plays muscleman. If china should turn against him it could get interesting. The USA are no danger for KIM at the moment.

Edit:

Forgot some links

Congress nuclear weapon report on NK

NK ´s ballistic missile program

Hecker report on visiting nuclear installation in january 2004

[CanadianTerror 0]

Quote[/b] ]Communists normally stick together with communists.

If anything, I thought China wanted to invade Russia.

I think the communists helping communists days are over unless they really have something to gain by it.

[EiZei 0]

A military solution is not possible for the USA atm. They don´t have sufficient capacity at hand. KIM knows that and plays muscleman. If china should turn against him it could get interesting. The USA are no danger for KIM at the moment.

I wonder, if Kim nuked/blew up a US military base without being attacked first would that automatically mean that every member of NATO would declare war on DPRK?

[Badgerboy 0]

A military solution is not possible for the USA atm. They don´t have sufficient capacity at hand. KIM knows that and plays muscleman. If china should turn against him it could get interesting. The USA are no danger for KIM at the moment.

I wonder, if Kim nuked/blew up a US military base without being attacked first would that automatically mean that every member of NATO would declare war on DPRK?

Technically yes, I believe it comes under article 5.

I'm sure the US have enough warheads to respond in kind though.

(Nuclear weapons are not big or clever)

[Pipski 0]

(Nuclear weapons are not big or clever)

Some of them are pretty bulky.

[Apollo 0]

North Korea is an odd society stuck into a continueing "cultural revolution" China style with a personality cult for Kim Jong ill ,it's pretty messes up altoghether ,it's an elitetist society where family hereditry is of fundamental importance ,1 mistake made by a distant family member can make youre average North korean's life hell.It's such a tyranic country that the people are so used and indoctrinated to it that they actually accept it as normal.People are so used to the hardship of living there that they actually truly want one thing: to sacrifice themselfs for Kim jong ill ,it's maddnes but for people that ever learned of China's cultural revolution it will sound pretty similar.

The country has become an economical armpit.The North korean convential army is hughe and expensive and as such sucks up a majority of the BNP.Apart of Pjongyang wich is a sort of PR "model city" packed with the "elite" of the country the country has few basic means of transport ,no elictricity (check a sattelite picture of North Korea at night ,most of surrounded Asia is tottaly lit ,while the whole of North Korea is a black blob) ,not much infrastructure ,...

In times of the cold war North Korea was economicly supported by the communist powers ,however after the fall of the USSR North Korea had to look elsewhere for cash.

Extortian is a good way ,towards South Korea ,Japan and the U.S.A if nessecary ,and it has worked to a certain extend.But afcourse they need more cash ,and if the can't extort it ,then theyll sell weapons to third party's for cash.

From this perspective are ballistic missile's and nuclear warheads a good base for extortion.They build 10 or 20 nukes and they can extort any democratic country around them for the nessecary amount they need to get their economy out of the shambles.

An Invasion of North Korea with conventional weapons would be a bad idea.First of all consider that Kim jong ill has about 2.000.000 troops immensly loyal by indoctrination and trained ,even prepaired to fight the Americans.America's invasion force in Iraq was only 250.000 and already enourmesly expensive.To be on the safe side counting that an amount of troops providing 3vs1 odd's against an enemy are favourable the U.S would need 6.000.000 troops to invade North Korea.And that is

provided that China wouldn't aid North Korea ,because China knowing if it would support North Korea it would easily drop of a few million of well trained and equiped "militiamen" to fight the U.S under the command of North Korea ,just like they did in the 50's.With other word's ,it would probably be much cheaper to give in to the extortion than actually try to invade the country directly withought a deep consencus with China.

And then China is the determinal factor.North Korea was and is protected by China as a buffer to their region of influence.A concensus must be found with China to force North Korea to disarm ,when China would force them they would obviously give in in no time.Since there is no official peace treaty beween S. and N. Korea and since this border is a faultline between 2 distinct ideoligy's and power-bloc's it can be accepted that North Korea maintain's a large conventional force ,however it shouldn't have a nuclear arsenal and ballistic rockets able to strike distant country's.Only China would be able to force North Korea to to disband their WMD project's ,we must make it worthwile for China to do that ,there are thing's i presume that China needs wich the U.S or Europe can provide.

And with this in mind ,The U.S might think of aiding S. Korea somewhat more for their security if needed.

But the question still remains ,what to do with a psychopatic society that is facing bankrupcy and has dangerous but valuable weapons at hand?Maybe the biggest threat woud be the scenario in wich N. Korea sell's a nuclear device to Al-Qauida.Maybe it would be in the best interrest to finnancially support the North korean goverment ,dispicable leaders as they are ,in favor of North Korea disbanding a large part of its army and finnaly build up it's economy.But then i don't think that fit's his godness Kim jong ill.

[toadeater 0]

North Korea isn't going to unilaterally attack South Korea. That is the answer to your question.

[Akira 0]

Situation is more complicated as far as i know, because Korean war still goes on. Now we have only armistice, not peace. So even if US/ROK would attack, it wouldn't be pre-emptive strike, but just continuation of war, with UN "blessing" (well, old one, but still).

Other problem is China's reaction. In 50's China was "linked" only with Soviet Union, now has trade with most western countries, so it is higher risk for them for restrictions, and i think they would think twice before helping NK. Of course they still can use "veto" right to block any UN resolution.

When did China get their permanent seat on the security council? After the Korean war possibly?

1971 when Taiwan was kicked out and China installed.

[Akira 0]

Quote[/b] ]Communists normally stick together with communists.

If anything, I thought China wanted to invade Russia.

I think the communists helping communists days are over unless they really have something to gain by it.

China and Russia have gotten cozier. I'm not sure about their border issues though.

China and VietNam ain't too cozy at all.

China tolerates NK. It's better than having a unified capitalist Korea right at your border.

[theavonlady 2]

Group Seeks U.N. Probe on North Korea

Quote[/b] ]SEOUL, South Korea - A U.S.-based Jewish human rights group has urged the United Nations to investigate claims that North Korea conducted gas chamber experiments on political prisoners, comparing the alleged acts to those in the concentration camps of Nazi Germany.