Hilandor 1 Posted October 16, 2003 Does anyone know where i could find some tutorials on setting up a sever, ive checked everywhere and see nothing, im a complete newbie but must learn this and learn it quick any help is most appreciated Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ex-RoNiN 0 Posted October 16, 2003 Umm, what sort of server? Apache? Windows? FTP? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hilandor 1 Posted October 16, 2003 this is what im not sure off the site were creating will have a comprehensive list of hotels & bed&breakfasts in it perhaps over 4000 entries the users need to be able to just click through and read stuff there is no interaction with users people wishing to list their hotel will need to fill an online form to add entry all i know is someone said that i should be using SQL cos this means i dont have to make 4000 seperate html pages i can just access a database for the lists. hope that helps slightly like i say im a complete novice newbie at this server stuff and i want to run all this from the house Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theavonlady 2 Posted October 16, 2003 Networking for Dummies. Databases for Dummies. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ex-RoNiN 0 Posted October 16, 2003 this is what im not sure off the site were creating will have a comprehensive list of hotels & bed&breakfasts in it perhaps over 4000 entries the users need to be able to just click through and read stuff there is no interaction with users people wishing to list their hotel will need to fill an online form to add entry all i know is someone said that i should be using SQL cos this means i dont have to make 4000 seperate html pages i can just access a database for the lists. hope that helps slightly like i say im a complete novice newbie at this server stuff and i want to run all this from the house Right, that means you want to set up the server yourself? Ok, hmm, are you familiar with Linux/Unix? If yes, Apache is the way to go. If not, you are probably better off going for Windows NT Server, it is a slightly bit easier to use and configure BUT security is appalling. SQL is Structured Query Language, which is used to query a relational database. I suggest Oracle, but it is bloody expensive and you can not use the free version on a public site I don't think. It is worth asking though. Rather than using html for the site, I recommend using either CGI/Perl or PHP, offers more security, better interaction with the database and more customizable and more professional look. You will need a high speed internet line, I mean serious stuff, with up/downstream being at least 2mb each. You also need a powerful machine to run this, twin-athlon mp's at least. That is all just random information on top of my head, running and maintaining a server is a very complex and difficult task. I will look around for a few websites forums.devshed.com is a good place to start btw Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hilandor 1 Posted October 16, 2003 ahh thanks very much both of u il look up the links u mentioned i realise its a mammoth task and oh best connection i get is adsl with an upload of 256 so not sure how many users that would accomodate Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ex-RoNiN 0 Posted October 16, 2003 ahh thanks very much both of u il look up the links u mentioned i realise its a mammoth task and oh best connection i get is adsl with an upload of 256 so not sure how many users that would accomodate It would be much cheaper and much better if you went ahead and got a proper webhost to run your site, then all you would need to configure is the site itself, not the entire server. Plus the site would be quicker (a LOT!). Placebo has a webhost that charges 30 quid a month for unlimited traffic, a lot cheaper than building your own webserver and maintaining it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hilandor 1 Posted October 16, 2003 yeah me and my partner have put a lot of thought into that i thought having it at home means we can back it up as often as we require if the hosting site goes down we lose business a monthly fee for the hosting is costly compared to running it at home ( need connection at home either way so the cost of that is not important) and apart from the time and learning needed to have server at home i see no other downsides ( although if u care to mention anything i missed then feel free to mention) we need all the criticism we can take etc before we plunge into this, Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WhoCares 0 Posted October 16, 2003 Just a wild guess, the site would be something like this with the content of that (Accomodation section). Couldn't you have done that 2 years ago? Do you remember, back then I asked you about BnBs in Inverness Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hilandor 1 Posted October 16, 2003 lol yes i remember that and yes something like that but we have a unique idea with regards to each hotel etc which will make it very different from these standard sites We have been intouch with business gateway ( help for small business) and the advisor reckons cos we live in scotland and tourism is huge and our idea hasnt been done ( or not to any good standard ) that its very viable but all thiis after we phone over 500 hotels for our market research Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ex-RoNiN 0 Posted October 16, 2003 yeah me and my partner have put a lot of thought into that i thought having it at home means we can back it up as often as we require if the hosting site goes down we lose business a monthly fee for the hosting is costly compared to running it at home ( need connection at home either way so the cost of that is not important)and apart from the time and learning needed to have server at home i see no other downsides ( although if u care to mention anything i missed then feel free to mention) we need all the criticism we can take etc before we plunge into this, No mate, you spend a monthly amount to have the site running. However, you write the site at home, then you upload it to the server via ftp. I am not sure how it works with databases, but I think you can back it up to your machine by slightly modifying the commit script. But as far as I know, a decent host would back up every 24hrs anyway, you could possibly come up with a specific back up period for a small extra fee. Go for a big name host company, they usually are online 24/7 anyway. Plus, the hosting company can afford something that you can not - redundancy. If your server blows the PSU or the cat craps on your CPU, your server will be down for hours until you can repair the damage. The hosting company will simply run on failsafe for a while, thus your site stays up. Also, consider the cost of setting up the server. For such a large database, I would say that you need at least a twin-cpu machine with 1gb of ram. Looking at a cheap AMD solution, twin Athlon MP2200+ with HSF will cost you around 120 quid each, that is just for the CPU. YOu need an appropriate board, 60-100 quid again. 1GB of ram, that's an extra 150 quid if you buy cheap memory. Two or three harddrives, 80 quid each if you go for cheap models? Then you need to purchase the OS, you need to purchase the server software, you could go for free solutions but I am not sure what the licenses are like. Keep in mind you may have to buy a business license, rather than a home license. Same goes for the database. Keep in mind that this is about as cheap as it gets, a webserver handling multiple access to multiple entries in a database is probably better off being a Xeon because of its hyper threading technology which would be really beneficial. Trouble is, a single Xeon CPU costs 300 quid upwards. The hosting company will have all of this available already. The time and trouble it will take to build this and maintain this are just not justified IMO. And if you can only get a standard net connection with 256k upload, then you won't be able to take many users onboard. Slow sites are avoided sites. IMO you are much better off going for a hosted solution. But I would definitely contact them first and ask them about database back ups, cgi/perl support, php support etc. Oh, and you need to purchase your domain name, too! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
denoir 0 Posted October 16, 2003 and apart from the time and learning needed to have server at home  i see no other downsides  First, you need very good bandwith. ADSL won't cut it. If you plan on having a few visitors then 10 Mbit will do. If you are expecting many visitors then 100 Mbit is needed. Second, for stability a webhost is much better. They have clusters of computers, RAIDed disks, a lot of back up computers and uninterruptable power supplies. Something really nasty must happen to get them, and your site, offline. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Supah 0 Posted October 16, 2003 and apart from the time and learning needed to have server at home  i see no other downsides  First, you need very good bandwith. ADSL won't cut it. If you plan on having a few visitors then 10 Mbit will do. If you are expecting many visitors  then 100 Mbit is needed. Second, for stability a webhost is much better. They have clusters of computers, RAIDed disks, a lot of back up computers and uninterruptable power supplies. Something really nasty must happen to get them, and your site, offline. Yeah apart from hacking and dDOS not much can really go wrong ... you'd think Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WhoCares 0 Posted October 16, 2003 I'm not sure, but I think many ISPs do not allow to host web servers on a standard (private) DSL-line. I am also not sure about the mapping of a domain name to such a server, as the IP is often dynamically assigned on ADSL connections. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hilandor 1 Posted October 16, 2003 yep i know i didnt include a lot of stuff with regards to downsides lol this is where your giving me the ideas at the moment indeed with what everyone has wrote online hosting is by far the best method ( just trying to convince my partner too) The only problem is we dont expect to have masses of users it would be good but this has to build up and i was just thinking of reducing costs i.e monthly hosting subscription is what .. about 30 a month if hosted at home ( if we knew what we were doiing) then that cost has gone and could be best used for upgrading equipment etc my idea was to start small and cost effective and if it works then perhaps consider an online hosting although i realise the " cats crapping" and my bairn eating my server senario does anyone have any idea how many users a adsl 256 upload would support roughly Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hilandor 1 Posted October 16, 2003 here are the specs of the server we were looking at and its only a couple of hundred qiud SGI Origin 200 Server (Part number L1-S6602-4) Dual R12K 270Mhz Processors with 4Mb Cache (Other CPU options available, 512Mb ECC System Memory - Upgradable to 4Gb - 5 x 9Gb SCA (Hot-Swap) Ultra SCSI System Drive in SGI original sleds - you can remove the 9Gb drives and fit upto 146Gb drives in these machines with no problem at all. On-board SCSI controller with additional internal connections. 3 PCI Expansion slots for additional requirements Expansion sockets available for GigaChannel (PCI & XIO expansion) and additional tower (To make the machine a 4 CPU system, purchase a 2nd tower and connect the two via a craylink cable). 10/100 Ethernet Interface Rackmount chassis (Fits a industry standard 19" rack system, taking up 4U in height. Please ensure Rack is of sufficient depth to fit this machine - we recommend a 900mm deep rack for airflow purposes) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Supah 0 Posted October 16, 2003 The only problem  is we dont expect to have masses of users  it would be good but this has to build up  and i was just thinking of reducing costs  i.e  monthly hosting subscription is what .. about 30 a month  if hosted at home ( if we knew what we were doiing)  then that cost has gone and could be best used for upgrading equipment etc  And then you grow to the point where you need pro hosting and all that equipment becomes completly useless over night really, online pro hosting is the way to go. The ISP thing (wether they will allow it) is a good thing too. Lots of ISP dont like that and could disconnect you for it Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
