HD weapons for human players...

[Major Fubar 0]

Simple poll - do you like to have High Dispersion weapons for human players in missions (SP and MP), or not?

Personally, I really don't like it. It takes away from the skill level and introduces too much of a random factor into the game, especially in multiplayer. Many people say "it makes mission more challenging" - yes it does. But so would initialising all players with setdammage 0.9. Do we want that in missions too? How about you only start missions with 1 mag? Many factors can make missions more challenging, but also can detract form the fun.

IMHO, HD weapons are great for when you want to simulate untrained soldiers with AI, but it is just too frustrating for human players - and a LOT of people I have played MP with recently seem to feel the same way.

(Yes, I know I can always edit the missions if I want to - but I can't when I'm playing on someone elses server. And yes, I also know "My server, my rules" applies )

[thirtyg 0]

I'm with you Fubar, while some variability in accruacy is needed, the HD weapons provide too much variability in shot accruacy for human players, taking out the skill level of individual players.

On the other hand i cant stand weapons that will put a hole in a 50 cent piece from 300m evertime.

Maybe some type of low dispersion weapon is required to stimulate the RL shot groupings from rifles.

[Major Fubar 0]

Thanks thirtyg. Hmm, maybe Low Dispersal weapons would be an idea, maybe for Jam V3.0 (or not, it's up to the makers).

I just want to restate that I am not criticising the concept of HD weapons, or even having them as the player weapons in missions, but just wanting to get a general feeling, in case I ever get off my ass and make some missions of my own.

[bonko the sane 2]

ermm....tricky poll u got there,if u had "Yes i like HD ammo once in a while" option I would vote that.

So I abstain.

In the new Tonal MP missions I quite enjoy them as I really feel like Im a badly trained Guerrila\3rd World country Army Member.

But if Im playing as a developed country army soldier my preferences go 100% to the FDF modified recoil.

[Major Fubar 0]

I was going to put in a third option, but I really think this is a yes or no question.

[canukausiuka 1]

I voted yes, but that's because I dont like the extreme accuracy most of the guns have. I'd prefer Low-Dispersion to High-Dispersion, though. Just enough to give me a few more warnings before I get nailed

[ozanzac 0]

I voted no. Why? Because the trajectory is just too random. Lets face it, most firearms shoot straight and are fairly well calibrated in accordance with the weapons sites, and those firearms that don't shoot accuratly, have predictable trajectories.

Ever gone paintballing and notice your marker doesn't shoot straight. (No hire ones ever do!) After a while, you should be able to accurately predict the trajectory of the paintball, and thus you become harmoneous with your weapon.

The inacuracy of a firearm comes from the user, not the weapon. And I must admit, IRL and in games, I'm a crack shot! Which is why I get frustrated using HD weapons.

[Acecombat 0]

I agree FUBAR HD should be restricted for AI only much fun in watching them 'try' to hit us

Also HD is ok in terms of human usage but it gets frustrating in MP most when you get killed and cant shoot straight let alone with the LAG bothering you too..

[RED 0]

I voted no, I like the AI having HD weapons though. Sometimes it is good for human players to have HD weapons though, a good example of this is in the BAS campaign.

RED

[Eviscerator 0]

I voted no, HD weapons for players is kinda starting to piss me off in multiplayer, so ive been sticking to the SVD and RPG's while playing Tonal/OPFOR missions. HD is primarily for the use of the AI to make the gameplay a lot better, the battles last longer and they hit you less. It is however up to the mission maker to decide what type of weapons/magazines to use, JAM provides both magazines for mission makers to use so there is no reason for a mission maker to feel they HAVE to use HD magazines. As for low dispersion weapons...these are just the normal magazines. The normal magazines in JAM have realistically scaled accuracy(based on MOA figures) and recoil, there is no reason for another set of low dispersion magazines when there is already one set.

[thirtyg 0]

The normal magazines in JAM have realistically scaled accuracy (based on MOA figures) and recoil, there is no reason for another set of low dispersion magazines when there is already one set.

Excellent... didn't realise this was already a feature of JAM.

I suppose given the limitations of the OFP engine it is impossible to have an excellent system like JAM if you wanted individual rifle characteristics.

Using a MOA based on ammunition is always going to be somewhat unrealistic given that each rifle will have different recoil, barrel length etc (not to meantion user... thats where HD is useful) and therefore slightly different MOA groupings at a given range.

Playing around with the normal JAM mags shows you have created a fairly realistic system in JAM. Hopefully one day we will see it on the delta/rangers.

Out of curiosity at what range are the JAM mags/sights zeroed in at?

[Eviscerator 0]

Same as the BIS mags, which is...400m i think. And yeah getting the recoil and accuracy correct on magazines that are used in a wide variety of magazines is hard, however we took the most generic rifle of each type and took that MOA, the recoil is scaled by the amount of grains of gunpowder in each bullet and tweaked till it feels about right.

[nyles 11]

But if Im playing as a developed country army soldier my preferences go 100% to the FDF modified recoil.

I agree, the FDFmod way is the only way I like! It feels so real. HD is good for AI, but even the fact that when you pick up a weapon with HD mags, you will suffer from this again.

The way I'd like it, would be FDFmod accuracy and recoil (with maybe a tad, and only a tad) less recoil for 5.56x45 and 5.45x39 based weapons. On the other hand I would like to see more damage to the weapons. The decreased accuracy gives some great oppertunities to adjust the damage instead. You hit less (unless you concentrate and aim properly) but when you hit, the target will notice it.

JAM is a nice idea regarding weapons sharing the same magazines and I also like many of the new sounds, but as the damage has been based on OFP values and the accuracy being as usual (except for HD), I don't really like it.

[Heatseeker 0]

Nop, i think HD should be for a.i. only, i think its a great way to create more realistic and interesting firefights, the usual lethal 300m burst or pk rounds to the head were very frustrating.

On a side note i cannot say how much i like JAM initiative, it makes weapons feel more realistic (no more burst on AK) and the sounds really improve one of OPFs biggest flaws, JAM owns .

[shadow 6]

I voted NO to HD-weapons. I hate them. Usually it's my aiming abilities that are the reason to me missing my target (and that's the way it should be). But with the high-dispersion I can't hit the broad side of a barn at point blank

That's also the reason I just played the first and half of the second mission in Nagual's campaign. The HD-weapons are too frustrating to use. I know like Evis said: they are meant to be used for the AI to make the firefights last longer. But when you run out of your own ammo and have to pick up some more, all you see lying around are HD-mags

[-TU--33ker 0]

I voted no, because I hate BAS for ruining the first mission of their campaign by giving the player a HD FAL!

The militia kills you first before you can hit anything!

[ruff 102]

yeah i voted no

the hd are only good for ai to simulate untrained soldiers

i rekon hd was the best invention for ai therefor if ur assaulting a small base with delta force u dont expect half ur men to die

in rl deltas will be alot more accurate and will only be wounded

and most deltas that died in one conflict was somalia and thats because they were taking on a whole city and decide to do suicide missions

i know its getting off topic but overall it sets a realism factor in the game that untrained soldiers miss more and fire more frequent

while trained soldiers fire a few shots and drop them

[joltan 0]

$33ker @ Oct. 06 2003,13:52)]I voted no, because I hate BAS for ruining the first mission of their campaign by giving the player a HD FAL!

The militia kills you first before you can hit anything!

While I voted 'No!', too, I had no problems with that mission. Advance slowly, use cover (and grenades when nescessary). Was an easy mission, although I really liked sneaking around town on my own.

[-TU--33ker 0]

IIRC I had only one grenade from the beginning.

I really loved the way everything started, Blew up the BMP and advanced into the town. But you have to face the enemy anyway, so I tried to shoot some militia guy somewhere around the BMP to test the new weapon and din't hit him! I was around 90m away from him and he didn't move! I've spent 16 rounds untill I had him on the ground but he still killed me with his fourth shot!

I think someone who's supposed to be something like a rhodesian scout should be a good marksman!

I know that you can finish the mission, but I stopped playing after I realized that I couldn't do it the way I liked it and that BAS have taken the option that many players would use: Kill fast and disappear. You have to shoot a lot to kill a single untrained militia soldier and you have to hope that he doesn't kill you first.

I'll try it again, but I still don't like it...

[Acecombat 0]

LOl Tu33ker you need to learn how to aim man ..

Its way too easy just go for cover and fire from bushes the AI surprisingly doesnt sees through bushes

[nyles 11]

LOl Tu33ker you need to learn how to aim man ..

Its way too easy just go for cover and fire from bushes the AI surprisingly doesnt sees through bushes  

Still that doesn't defeat the point of still needing several rounds if not clips to kill a single enemy at a medium or long ranges, regardless of standing still or being prone.

[Acecombat 0]

Yes correct i said that earlier too , i was just telling our other friend here how to finish th 1st mission

[Major Fubar 0]

C'mon guys, this thread isn't about the BAS campaign, there's a whole other thread for that

[Heatseeker 0]

Ok, ok, i guess it all depends on mission design, usually OPF gameplay involves alot of long range shooting in large open battlefield with little more than bushes and trees sooo a acurate good rifle is definetly a must. But... if someone decides to do a cqb TDM mission in a large town with lotsa objects and places to hide, maybe set in night time HD can be fun and provide some really wild firefights, maybe a Black Hawk Down style MP mission set in the alleys of a town somewhere on a African Island .

[-TU--33ker 0]

LOl Tu33ker you need to learn how to aim man ..

Its way too easy just go for cover and fire from bushes the AI surprisingly doesnt sees through bushes  

What do you think I've been doing the whole time? I'm not an OFP newbie.