theavonlady 2 Posted July 7, 2005 I'd like to remember you that France had already in the past suffered from terrorist attacks by the algerian GIA, with many deads, wounded and handicaped for life victims... I predict you will suffer more in the future, in spite of France's not being in Algeria for decades nor in Iraq ar present. Time will tell. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
miles teg 1 Posted July 7, 2005 I agree with you Avon Lady that Europe will suffer more if Islamic fundamentalism is not stopped. Fundamentalist Muslims in Europe use all the great freedoms and tolerance they have their to further recruit and spread their preachings of hatred and intolerance. I've already stated my solutions for this problem in the past but you never agreed with me. What do you propose as a solution Avon Lady? Invade more countries? Create concentration camps for European Muslims? Killing millions of them, terrorist or not, Nazi style? Unless you're psychic how can you tell who is a "good" Muslim or a "bad" Muslim? Although.... I get the feeling that you don't believe there is such thing as a good Muslim and its understandable given where you live and your experiences with Muslims. But I would like to know what your ideas are to how to solve terrorism. Chris G. aka-Miles Teg<GD> Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theavonlady 2 Posted July 7, 2005 I agree with you Avon Lady that Europe will suffer more if Islamic fundamentalism is not stopped. Â Fundamentalist Muslims in Europe use all the great freedoms and tolerance they have their to further recruit and spread their preachings of hatred and intolerance. I've already stated my solutions for this problem in the past but you never agreed with me. I have a lot to respond to your post. However, I'm afraid that the rules of this forum don't allow me to fully state my opinion here. A few things I can say: Quote[/b] ]What do you propose as a solution Avon Lady? Invade more countries? Whatever it takes to defend your own. Whether this includes invading foreign lands or not, I leave up to military strategists. One need not only look abroad for enemies in this war. Quote[/b] ]Create concentration camps for European Muslims? There are 2 definitions for "concentration camps": 1) extermination camps; 2) detention camps. The first is an abhorent idea. The second leads to the question: then what? Quote[/b] ]Killing millions of them, terrorist or not, Nazi style? Never have I alluded to such attrocious ideas but thinking that I could advocate this comes so easy to your mind. This is not the first time. Quote[/b] ]Unless you're psychic how can you tell who is a "good" Muslim or a "bad" Muslim? Besides obvious cases, you cannot. Quote[/b] ]Although.... I get the feeling that you don't believe there is such thing as a good Muslim This is a lie. Quote[/b] ]and its understandable given where you live and your experiences with Muslims. Wrong again. Quote[/b] ]But I would like to know what your ideas are to how to solve terrorism. First, correctly define your enemy. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Akira 0 Posted July 7, 2005 Well with the London Terror attack thread briefly locked due to somes callousness, I'll post what I was going to post until it got locked. Quote[/b] ]Indeed. Dead aren't even cold and already the usual suspects arrive with the common "saw this coming" or "should have known this would happen."Whether this has anything to do with the war on terror or not is irrelevant right now. Have the common decency to allow those affected to come to grips with the tragedy before jamming your politcal views in their face. And in case you didn't notice, the statement mentioned Iraq and Afghanistan as the reason. That means Germany, France and other nations that supported and sent troops into Afghanistan can expect the same. Though I'm sure when it occurs to you, people will be a little more sensitive to your trauma then you were to theirs. People make me sick. In any case, it appears that the bombs were remote detonated and not suicide bombs. So I guess fanatical fundamentalism isn't the reason, nor the promised 72 virigns. Apparently the perpetraters don't feel strongly enough about their convictions to lay their life down. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thunderbird 0 Posted July 7, 2005 Avon...hmm Avon... What about to keep your opinion about moslems/arabs etc only for you ? You repeated it more than once and you still repeat it... only few people do agree with ya though... You live in israel and the terrorism that your "army" fight against ins't the same than in europe or in the rest of the world... as somebody said each attack has a reason behind it, It's necessary that you learn to differentiate between the events and people. edit :your paranoiac attitude's a bit weird though... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theavonlady 2 Posted July 7, 2005 Avon...hmm Avon... What about to keep your opinion about moslems/arabs etc only for you ? Why should I? Can we shut your mouth, too? If you feel I've violated a forum rule, please report me to the moderators. Quote[/b] ]You repeated it more than once and you still repeat it... only few people do agree with ya though... It is not a crime to be in the minority, nor does it make you wrong. Quote[/b] ]You live in israel and the terrorism that your "army" fight against ins't the same than in europe or in the rest of the world... I will claim that even should Israel disappear off the face of the globe, the western world will be in no less a danger than it is today - in fact, more so, . "Give them a finger and they'll take a hand". Quote[/b] ]as somebody said each attack has a reason behind it, There's an excuse for everything. Quote[/b] ]It's necessary that you learn to differentiate between the events and people. Differentiate! Sounds awfully familiar to me: LIVE, FROM CNN! LONDON, England (CNN) -- A previously unknown group calling itself the "Secret Organization Group of al Qaeda of Jihad in Europe" has released a statement claiming responsibility for the subway and bus bombings in London. CNN could not confirm the authenticity of the statement, which was posted Thursday on a Web site connected to Islamic radicals. The statement said Islam and "Arabism" could "rejoice for it is time to take revenge from the British Zionist Crusader government in retaliation for the massacres Britain is committing in Iraq and Afghanistan." "The heroic mujahideen have carried out a blessed raid in London," the statement said, translated from Arabic. Quote[/b] ]edit :your paranoiac attitude's a bit weird though... That's easy for you to say! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Placebo 29 Posted July 7, 2005 Stop the childish bickering both of you please. If you cannot discuss topics in a mature way then don't discuss such topics. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Garcia 0 Posted July 7, 2005 All that funny AQ - ties that have been setup in the past were proven UNFOUNDED. Nethertheless Bush highlighted the 9/11 trauma 5 times in his speech on Iraq. How the f*** is 9/11 connected to Iraq ? Well it is connected....it produced even more willing bombers. Great way to solve a problem... There wasn't found any weapons of mass destruction either...it's kinda funny that the war was based on a lie...if I remember correctly, the 2 reasons the US and UK gave for attacking Iraq was connections to AQ and weapons of mass destruction... it's also kinda funny that a study just before the election in US showed that over 70% of the people that was gonna vote for Bush still thought Iraq had connections to AQ, that Iraq was in some way involved in 9/11 and that US DID find weapons of mass destruction in Iraq... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theavonlady 2 Posted July 7, 2005 All that funny AQ - ties that have been setup in the past were proven UNFOUNDED. Nethertheless Bush highlighted the 9/11 trauma 5 times in his speech on Iraq. How the f*** is 9/11 connected to Iraq ? Well it is connected....it produced even more willing bombers. Great way to solve a problem... There wasn't found any weapons of mass destruction either...it's kinda funny that the war was based on a lie...if I remember correctly, the 2 reasons the US and UK gave for attacking Iraq was connections to AQ and weapons of mass destruction... it's also kinda funny that a study just before the election in US showed that over 70% of the people that was gonna vote for Bush still thought Iraq had connections to AQ, that Iraq was in some way involved in 9/11 and that US DID find weapons of mass destruction in Iraq... Can you do the "Loop the Loop"? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sanctuary 19 Posted July 7, 2005 Facing an adaptation of the allegory of the mythologic Hydra -Hurting the body doesn't work as the unavoidable collateral damages will only reinforce it as it has been proved in Iraq. -Cutting a head doesn't work, it will eventually regenerate, and the other heads can perfectly move the body as after several terrorists leader death, new leaders sometime even more important are revelead in the news everytime. -Cutting all the heads at once could work as those heads are in fact military logistic, financial support and ideology providers, without those heads regenerating new ones could be difficult and so the body could be weakened. But leaving unrealistic/poetic/utopist/hate arguments out of the picture how to achieve this with the real actual and realistic possibilities that are existing in community of nations ? diplomacy ? but how diplomacy could deal with ideology providers , when their request is simply the death to who they don't like , and knowing there will be always people listening to them fool enough to join the body ? military ? but how military could make the difference between heads and body, and just how to make the difference in a military "way of handling things" between the Hydra and the innocent people living around it ? political ? may be a good way to cut the financial support heads, but how to really deal with all the other when there are difference of interest between all the politician leaders that may end in a simple wall. If the solution was simple there would not even be a question. But until now it seems none in the people that have an influence on the situation has provided such anwser without relying to naive/utopist/unrealistic/crazy/pleasure of arguing... argument. And that's the problem. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Garcia 0 Posted July 7, 2005 Yea yea, you got a nice article about connections between Iraq and AQ...so what? IIRC, there were people in UK (named kelly or something) that had a lot to do with the war on Iraq, that went public and said that US and UK had made up some bullshit just so they could go to war...sadly the guy commited suicide just after it...I don't give a shit about what you can throw at me...there is no proof of weapons of mass destruction, connection between Iraq and AQ or connection between Sadam and 9/11... ffs...the CIA had more to do with 9/11 than Iraq... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thunderbird 0 Posted July 7, 2005 com'on avon , as usual you repeat the same things since a while ... nobody care about your "exremist attitude"... Why don't you try to understand the facts instead of to make prejudices about some people that you absolutely don't know ... you are sure that you're right , so keep up your "racist" attitude , I can live with that Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theavonlady 2 Posted July 7, 2005 Yea yea, you got a nice article about connections between Iraq and AQ...so what? So stick your head in the sand. Quote[/b] ]...the CIA had more to do with 9/11 than Iraq... Uh-huh.........one of those.............. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Garcia 0 Posted July 7, 2005 I'm not sticking my head in the sand...I'm ignoring articles that don't tell the truth... Quote[/b] ]Uh-huh.........one of those.............. Well...I dunno what you know...but it seems you live in a bubble and think that whatever US and Israel says, they're right...but I would say CIA had more to do with 9/11 as they helped and trained Bin Laden to fight the russians...and after all he is the leader of AQ, and was the leader of AQ during the attacks on 9/11... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Placebo 29 Posted July 7, 2005 thunderbird84 I asked for the bickering to stop, you ignored me so 24 hour PR for ignoring a moderators instruction, it's disappointing to see someone who has put in so much effort to reform their character and reputation to throw it away on such a pointless argument. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ironsight 1 Posted July 7, 2005 Well...I dunno what you know...but it seems you live in a bubble and think that whatever US and Israel says, they're right...but I would say CIA had more to do with 9/11 as they helped and trained Bin Laden to fight the russians...and after all he is the leader of AQ, and was the leader of AQ during the attacks on 9/11... The CIA trained Bin Laden more than 20 years ago. How were they supposed to know he would turn against the western civilised world Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theavonlady 2 Posted July 7, 2005 I'm not sticking my head in the sand...I'm ignoring articles that don't tell the truth...Quote[/b] ]Uh-huh.........one of those.............. Well...I dunno what you know...but it seems you live in a bubble and think that whatever US and Israel says, they're right...but I would say CIA had more to do with 9/11 as they helped and trained Bin Laden to fight the russians...and after all he is the leader of AQ, and was the leader of AQ during the attacks on 9/11... That's very convincing. You've got company: Quote[/b] ]Exposed in TranslationBy Steven Stalinsky FrontPageMagazine.com | July 8, 2005 Within weeks of September 11, 2001, an Egyptian sheik serving as Al-Azhar University's representative in America and an imam at the Islamic Cultural Center and Mosque of New York City, Muhammad al-Gamei'a, was interviewed at an unofficial Al-Azhar University Web site, www.lailatalqadr.com. Sheik al-Gamei'a returned to Egypt shortly after his interview was translated. Many of his friends in the interfaith community were shocked at what this "moderate" said. In the interview, he claimed the Jews were behind the September 11 attacks and offered the following as evidence: "four thousand Jews did not come to work at the World Trade Center," and "Jews control decision-making in the airports and in the ... White House and the Pentagon." Another outrageous statement: "Muslims do not feel safe even going to the hospitals, because some Jewish doctors in one of the hospitals poisoned sick Muslim children, who then died." Sheik al-Gamei'a also predicted the collapse of America. Almost four years after Sheik al-Gamei'a made headlines, another influential Egyptian-born New York imam gave a series of interviews to the press in his homeland. He also did not expect his words would be translated by MEMRI. An imam at the Islamic Society of Mid-Manhattan and a lecturer on Islamic studies at Manhattanville College, Ahmad Dewidar, was recently called "the face of the next generation of Muslims in America." He has met with President Bush, Mayor Giuliani, Governor Pataki and U.N. Secretary-General Annan. Recently, Dr. Dewidar attended the annual Conference of the Supreme Council of Islamic Affairs in Egypt, where he gave a series of interviews. In one that aired on MBC TV on June 9, he discussed the spread of Islam in America. He referred to sermons he had heard in 1995 that stated, "We are going to the White House so that Islam will be victorious, Allah willing, and the White House will become Muslim House." To view the broadcast, visit www.memritv.org. On June 15, Dr. Dewidar was interviewed by the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood's Web site, www.ikhwanonline.com. When asked about how the attacks of September 11, 2001, impacted the spread of Islam in America, he said that he witnessed hundreds of Americans converting to Islam. Hinting at an American government conspiracy related to the attacks, he said, "Whether or not these events were planned, or pinned on the Muslims, or something else - [it] provided an opportunity for [the American government] to legislate dubious laws that restrict the growth and presence of Islam in the U.S." Regarding American skepticism toward Islam following September 11, 2001, he said, "The media - most of which is under Zionist control - has helped to spread this perception." Later in the interview he said that "the Jews" control the press. When asked, "What is the extent of the Muslim community's influence on American society?" He answered, "The Zionist community numbers only 3 million, but they control the government, the politics, the economy, and the media in the U.S." Also while speaking to the Web site of the Muslim Brotherhood, he denounced President Bush's policy in the Middle East, claiming it was dictated by Natan Sharansky: "This Jew has despicable goals, and we see their effects today in America's actions in the region, imposing its opinion and its outlook on democracy, education, and political involvement on our countries." Dr. Dewidar and Sheik al-Gamei'a's interviews shared some themes, such as blaming Islam's poor image in America on a Zionist-controlled press. They also both said the Zionists control political decision-making and economic institutions. Both were extremely positive on the future of Islam in America and discussed a trend of Americans converting to Islam following September 11, 2001. While the New York press has yet to pay this story adequate attention, it is being discussed by blogs such as Little Green Footballs. Others, such as Solomonia.com/blog, wrote about Dr. Dewidar's statements: "Before MEMRI - people could give these kinds of interviews abroad and no one would ever be the wiser. While still not broadcast widely, at least now, there's a chance of people wising up." On June 30, EconoPundit wrote: "MEMRI.org's most important contribution has been to make it harder for Middle East leaders to say one thing to their English-speaking audience while saying opposite and often contradictory things to their non-English-speaking constituents and allies. It now seems MEMRI's mandate has extended itself to U.S. Islamic leaders as well." Mr. Stalinsky is executive director of the Middle East Media Research Institute. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Garcia 0 Posted July 7, 2005 The CIA trained Bin Laden more than 20 years ago. How were they supposed to know he would turn against the western civilised world  I know, but it's not the point I don't blame the CIA, they couldn't know, and as this guy who was training Bin Laden said, they couldn't think "Hey, we can't do this, cause there is a chance he may turn on us in 20 years". But still, as long as there haven't been proven any connection between Iraq and AQ (even though Avon got some nice articles saying there was connection), CIA still got more to do with 9/11 than Iraq... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Akira 0 Posted July 7, 2005 All that funny AQ - ties that have been setup in the past were proven UNFOUNDED. Nethertheless Bush highlighted the 9/11 trauma 5 times in his speech on Iraq. How the f*** is 9/11 connected to Iraq ? Well it is connected....it produced even more willing bombers. Great way to solve a problem... There wasn't found any weapons of mass destruction either...it's kinda funny that the war was based on a lie...if I remember correctly, the 2 reasons the US and UK gave for attacking Iraq was connections to AQ and weapons of mass destruction... it's also kinda funny that a study just before the election in US showed that over 70% of the people that was gonna vote for Bush still thought Iraq had connections to AQ, that Iraq was in some way involved in 9/11 and that US DID find weapons of mass destruction in Iraq... Can you do the "Loop the Loop"? Can You? Unlike your opinion piece, these reports are based on actual facts. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Garcia 0 Posted July 7, 2005 Yea Avon...that's the thing you would belive...just because and article says that the jews were responsible of 9/11, it doesn't mean that they were...I've actually seen articles that can "prove" that Bush actually could have connection to 9/11 So you just go back to thinking that Sadam had a lot to do with 9/11...you can quote as many articles as you want...I bet there's an article somewhere saying that Ironsight was the pilot of one of the planes, but jumped out in a parachute in the last second...doesn't make it true... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theavonlady 2 Posted July 7, 2005 All that funny AQ - ties that have been setup in the past were proven UNFOUNDED. Nethertheless Bush highlighted the 9/11 trauma 5 times in his speech on Iraq. How the f*** is 9/11 connected to Iraq ? Well it is connected....it produced even more willing bombers. Great way to solve a problem... There wasn't found any weapons of mass destruction either...it's kinda funny that the war was based on a lie...if I remember correctly, the 2 reasons the US and UK gave for attacking Iraq was connections to AQ and weapons of mass destruction... it's also kinda funny that a study just before the election in US showed that over 70% of the people that was gonna vote for Bush still thought Iraq had connections to AQ, that Iraq was in some way involved in 9/11 and that US DID find weapons of mass destruction in Iraq... Can you do the "Loop the Loop"? Can You? Unlike your opinion piece, these reports are based on actual facts. Please factually prove all the points in the article I linked to as wrong and don't link me to sweeping generalizations issued a year ago that don't touch on any of the specifics. The point of the article that I posted is that the intelligence agencies are bungling facts again or they're jsut covering their backs after it turned out that the WMDs are nowhere to be found. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theavonlady 2 Posted July 7, 2005 Yea Avon...that's the thing you would belive...just because and article says that the jews were responsible of 9/11, it doesn't mean that they were...I've actually seen articles that can "prove" that Bush actually could have connection to 9/11 So you just go back to thinking that Sadam had a lot to do with 9/11...you can quote as many articles as you want...I bet there's an article somewhere saying that Ironsight was the pilot of one of the planes, but jumped out in a parachute in the last second...doesn't make it true... Enjoy your conspiracies. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ironsight 1 Posted July 7, 2005 Posted this in the Iraq thread but it also fits well in the War against terror thread. While we are getting attacked by terrorists in Europe, terror continues in Iraq: Quote[/b] ]Captors 'kill Egypt's Iraq envoy'An internet message purported to be from the militant group led by Abu Musab al-Zarqawi says Egypt's ambassador to Iraq has been killed. A video on the website showed a blindfolded man who gave his name as Ihab al-Sherif saying he had worked at Egyptian embassies in Iraq and Israel. Mr Sherif was abducted in Baghdad on Saturday. ID cards bearing his name appeared on a website on Wednesday. No killing was shown. The authenticity of the claim has not been verified. A statement released on Wednesday in the name of al-Qaeda in Iraq said Mr Sherif would be killed because he was an "apostate", who had betrayed his faith. It also criticised the Cairo government for its support of the US and Iraqi administrations. Al-Qaeda claims to have beheaded several foreign hostages in Iraq under the leadership of Zarqawi, a Jordanian fugitive. The Egyptian government has not commented on the claim that Mr Sherif has been killed. 'Delayed announcement' A written statement on the website on Thursday said "the verdict of God against the ambassador of the infidels, the ambassador of Egypt, has been carried out". It said the group had been planning to abduct more foreign envoys in Iraq. "The reason we delayed the announcement of capturing the ambassador of the dictator Egypt was to be able to capture as many ambassadors as we can," it said. Mr Sherif had been in Baghdad since early June. BBC News R.I.P. Ihab al-Sherif What a wonderfull world we are living in. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Placebo 29 Posted July 7, 2005 Avon I've asked you before to edit your posts instead of being so lazy. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
berghoff 11 Posted July 7, 2005 Quote[/b] ]What a wonderfull world we are living in. indeed but that has been for hunderds of years like this. Always a war somewhere. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
