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Harnu

The american dream

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suddenly, the words of 'model'(no matter how superficial it can be) attracts posters and drives topic off road. wink_o.gif

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(Un)fortunately anorexic blondes don't pop my cork...

Gimme a buxom brunette any day...

Anyway, back to the topic raised above: I have never understood the obsession with career either.

To me, work is an evil device that drains 1/3 of my life away, in exchange for which I get some money and two days a week to truly enjoy my life...

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I can imagine caring about my career if I really liked it, but how often do you find a job like that, and that pays enough to live on?

I worked at a bookstore in college where I made about $.02 over minimum wage, but I loved it... I'd have stayed there forever if I made enough money. But as it is, everyone wants to work at bookstores (especially in college, where if you're not a hot girl who can be a stripper, it's either working at McDonald's, the cafeteria, the Wal-Mart or a bookstore), so they can afford to pay people less.

I've found in the course of my life that the amount of money that you get paid for your job is relative to the amount of your soul that you have to give up for that job.

I think that's why used car salesmen will almost always make more money than someone who is doing something that they actually want to do.

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I can imagine caring about my career if I really liked it, but how often do you find a job like that, and that pays enough to live on?

I love my job and get paid more than enough to live on. rock.gif -- But I guess it depends on the economic conditions in your area and a little bit on luck too.

I've found in the course of my life that the amount of money that you get paid for your job is relative to the amount of your soul that you have to give up for that job.
I don't get this one...are you implying that if you make a good living your wasting your soul? sad_o.gif
I think that's why used car salesmen will almost always make more money than someone who is doing something that they actually want to do.

heheh...Salesmen == Spawn of Satan

I hate salesmen. crazy_o.gif

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The first thing I learned at work was my ABC's

All

Bosses are

C***s

tounge_o.gif

OK, I have worked in 1 or 2 jobs I liked, and the bosses haven't been stinking A-holes, but the majority haven't been remotely enjoyable.

The bane of my existance is "Middle Management" - you know, those jerks who suck up to the bosses enough to get token promotions, but aren't intelligent enough or good enough at their job's to get promoted to the upper tier of the company...these scumsucking parasites delight in brown-nosing the bosses of the company, and then taking out their loss of dignity on anyone unfortuante enough to be in a lower position than them...

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Quote[/b] ]
I can imagine caring about my career if I really liked it, but how often do you find a job like that, and that pays enough to live on?

I love my job and get paid more than enough to live on. rock.gif -- But I guess it depends on the economic conditions in your area and a little bit on luck too.

I guess you're one of the lucky few. smile_o.gif

Quote[/b] ]
I've found in the course of my life that the amount of money that you get paid for your job is relative to the amount of your soul that you have to give up for that job.
I don't get this one...are you implying that if you make a good living your wasting your soul? sad_o.gif

Not at all! Some people can make quite a good living without giving up any of their hopes and dreams. My brother-in-law is in the Air Force making huge amounts of money (relatively - like $40k/year as an E-4 because of his MOS). Sure, he's got a minimal risk of getting killed and military service isn't exactly the most liberating job in the world, but given what he makes and what he gives up to make it, he's very happy. And I think he's made a good compromise. Some people can and do make a living as a skydiving instructor, SCUBA diver, pilot, etc. - but those jobs tend to pay a lot less than your average job in an office building. You, for example, say you love your job and get paid a lot to do it, so you are an example of how to balance out your life. You probably don't have to sacrifice a lot of your time, energy and lifelong ambitions for your job. And even if you do, you probably don't mind because it's worth it to you.

It's like in order to make a good living you (you = most people) usually have to take a job that you don't really want. Like all those people who work in cubicles - I really doubt that they want to be there. But they get paid well enough to be treated like cattle and tolerate it.

Part of this is because of simple mediocrity - most people are incapable of doing what they really want to do, I think. Or they're willing to sacrifice their dreams to pursue more immediate goals (paying off student loans, having money for children, etc.) or because they made a poor decision in their past (got married early, got divorced early, picked a major they didn't really want in college, etc.) that only serve to deter them from what they really want to do.

Companies compensate for this, I think.

Boss: "You do this really crappy job that needs to get done, knowing full well we can downsize you whenever we want to, keep you cooped up in a cube 40 hours a week (more if we require it, without paying you extra), limit your contact with co-workers (it's counterproductive!) and we'll give you health benefits, $35,000 a year and two weeks of vacation."

You: "Well, I did just graduate from a second-rate college with a Liberal Arts degree and I've got $20,000 in student loans to repay. My only job choices are working as a kayaking instructor in Alaska - which pays minimum wage, but it's what I've always wanted to do - or this. I'll go for the $35k a year. Maybe I can even get that new sports car I always wanted!"

It all leads down a vicious cycle - he'll get his car, have to make payments on it, find a girlfriend, get married, get sucked into credit card debt, get sucked into mortgage payments, get sucked into paying for children and saving for their college costs... all of which keeps the modern American from being happy, I think. They simply can't do what they want to do because it's impractical. Hence, the more of your soul you give up for your "career", the more you get paid for it.

Doctors, for example, practically give up their entire lives to get the grades for med school, pay for med school, and then get residency, etc. But they get paid buckets of money.

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The bane of my existance is "Middle Management" - you know, those jerks who suck up to the bosses enough to get token promotions, but aren't intelligent enough or good enough at their job's to get promoted to the upper tier of the company...these scumsucking parasites delight in brown-nosing the bosses of the company, and then taking out their loss of dignity on anyone unfortuante enough to be in a lower position than them...

Ah yes. I've heard many different stories about the brown nosing double M's from many different people. The other 'double-M' that drives me nuts is Micro Management.

Unfortunately the manager I work with is a quadruple-M. he likes to micro manage everything.

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Being a Red Blooded American, I'll through my two cents in.

The "American Dream" is all about success. Personally, I chose to join the military after school and learn a skill set which provided a foundation for my current career. As of this day, I have a nice home (3 bedroom/2 bath ranch), 2 cars and one truck, a wife and so many electronic gadets that I cannot name them all. I have been eyeing a 1997 Corvette though. Since gas is $1.30 here, I might add this fine piece of American Engineering to my inventory.

I've noticed a few flames about Americans in general, and how we should keep our noses out of other countries affairs, but I find it ironic that when I go shopping I see products produced in many other countries. I imagine my dollars are helping a few folks beyond the coast line. I suppose some countries could pull their products as a form of boycott?

All in all, we Americans like so many other people, are free to make our own choices for our living. If we want to be a bum and live off of the government we can. If we want to work and buy nice things ( TVs, Cars, ) we can. Its all about choices -- The American Dream.

I choose to succeed.

--- May the flames begin --- unclesam.gif

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I work a retail job at Best Buy, selling computers at $7.00 an hour. I'm not on commisson, so it's a fairly easy-going place to work, and the hours spent explaining to some idiot that the computer case is not in fact his modem is well worth being able to spend the rest of the time shooting the shit with knowledgeable customers about technology. Not that I want to make a career out of it or anything- more and more I'm thinking of going to law school post-college (despite my rabid dislike of attorneys tounge_o.gif ).

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I've noticed a few flames about Americans in general, and how we should keep our noses out of other countries affairs, but I find it ironic that when I go shopping I see products produced in many other countries. I imagine my dollars are helping a few folks beyond the coast line. I suppose some countries could pull their products as a form of boycott?

It goes two ways. We buy your products and you buy our products. Trade smile_o.gif

But, since you brought it up, there is an imbalance. The EU for instance is importing more goods from USA than USA is importing from the EU. But, since you're the strongest industrial power around, that's not very surprising. smile_o.gif

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And Trade is a wonderful thing, I'm always looking for a new beer or wine from overseas to try. biggrin_o.gif

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Thank you everyone for your input!  As requested from a few people, here is my essay.  Not 100%, but close.

Quote[/b] ]The American Dream

The American Dream: Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.  Or is it opportunistic selfish greed, material possessions, and an abused idea?  Depending on how it is looked at, and whom you ask, you’ll get varying opinions.  Here are some more ‘controversial’ opinions and views on The American Dream, but they still show how it has changed, as well as some of the downsides to it.

“For me, [The] American Dream is just a vague synonym for opportunism and selfishness, that’s all, no more, no less.

To clarify: in my opinion the original notion of [The] American Dream has been abused, The American Dream, once upon a time, wasn’t only about a way of life with material possessions, it was much more than that.  A new life, a new culture, but now… The American Dream is just an excuse to some severe deviance†– Yann from Chatellerault, France.

This is exactly how the dream has changed from generation to generation.  People have come to American from all parts of the world seeking something better.  They have come looking for a better life, a better job, even better education.  Millions of people took a huge risk.  They sacrificed everything they knew to try and make a better life.  Not only for them, but for their children, their family, and their future.  But now, it seems it can be so much more corrupt than that.  Some people taking what they can while they can, only looking out for themselves.

“…Complete disregard for both people and resources (such as the environment) that you have to abuse to be successful.†– Lucas from Stockholm, Sweden

In the business world of America, this has become all too true.  With large companies not caring for anyone.  And in recent cases, those companies don’t even care about the investors that support them.  This was especially true with the case of Enron.  Company executives stealing and lying to achieve their dream of making thousands of more dollars, getting newer, larger homes and cars.  And taking whatever they could to satisfy their dream of greed.

Lucas also goes onto tell how people can spend most of their lives trying to obtain their own goals set in their own ‘American Dream’.

“You waste your life on trying to accomplish some materialistic goal while you don’t have time to actually enjoy life (What’s good about a Ferrari if you have to work sixteen hours a day?).

Not everyone starts off with the same disposition in life.  Some can become president with minimal effort, while others work their asses off for nothing.â€

This shows how some people really can’t, or have a very hard time, achieve their dreams.  While there are some that have to work hard to work several jobs or hours more than usual to achieve their own goal.  Yet, others can do nothing, and become or achieve something great.

The American dream, coming from Americans, seems so much better and clean cut that what other people and other cultures may think of it.  For this American, it is spending at least four years in the United States Marine Corps in the service of this country.  Then afterwards, starting a small business in an attempt to get that big house and great or.  Of course, the great family, and the white picket fence around the front yard with a dog running around is part of the dream.

Mostly, this is the basic dream for Americans, with some deviation here and there.  For instance, most wouldn’t go into any Armed Forces branch, but most everyone wants something like a nice house, family, car, or just to be happy.

“…The American dream is that all people can have life liberty, and the opportunity to pursue happiness…I have the opportunity to achieve whatever happiness I desire- all I have to supply is the initiative, intelligence, and work ethic required to realize my dream… Ultimately, weather I succeed or fail rests on one entity: Me.†– Matt Sullivan from Midland, Texas

This, from an average American, knowing that that the only way he can reach his dream is to work hard and apply himself.  Knowing well that not all people have to do this, it doesn’t deter his efforts in achieving his dream.

People from separate aspects of life can give you a bit of a different answer.  Sometimes the answers may be modest, and their dream may not even include anything about themselves, except wanting to be happy.

“I want my kids to make it in the world.  Not to struggle from paycheck to paycheck like the rest of us.  I want to grow old and soak it all in, watching in pride and hope that something I did or didn’t do helped them in succeeding in life.  I can die a happy man if I get to see that†– Unnamed United States Marine

Everyone has his or her own dream; each view on it can seem better or worse than the next.  Sometimes how the dream is achieved is not the greatest thing about it.  But one of the best things about The American Dream is that it encourages Ambition, which is needed for progress to take place.  However if it erodes compassion and selflessness it doesn’t seem to be worth it anymore.  While the dream can be filled with extravagant things and great goals, however, it is not always wise to allow it to encompass your life completely.  It can give great goals and high work standards but taking it too far, “It can become the American Nightmareâ€1.

1: Quote by ‘Tovarish’ from Ottawa, Canada

I Don't have Tovarish's name yet.  Hopefully he replies my PM so I don't have to explain to my teacher his name  biggrin_o.gif

I know the essay looks small on here. (atleast with my board setting) But it's really two pages, four when I have it double spaced how he wanted it.

It's not exactly Euro quality for some of the things you guys do for school, but I only had an hour here and there to work on this.

Edit- Copying and pasting it from word to here messes up the format a little bit. The superscripts and the indents especially.

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Not bad. You make it sound like all non-Americans contempt American values while all Americans follow a Soviet style dogma biggrin_o.gif

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Not bad. You make it sound like all non-Americans contempt American values while all Americans follow a Soviet style dogma biggrin_o.gif

Well, I am bias  tounge_o.gif

Anyway, does it really sound like that?  I guess my wording does kinda make it that way... hmmm.  Maybe I ought to do a little revising...

edit-

Looking over past versions of the essay. I was realllllllly bias biggrin_o.gif I just did a little more revising. Isn't all that biased anymore sad_o.giftounge_o.gif

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good job Harnu smile_o.gif

I couldn't write that well when i was your age.

(but then again, I was excelling in math and physics tounge_o.gif)

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I like it. I think you might want to remove 'ass' from your essay - at least bleep it out. In high school I got a couple of F's for putting mild (very mild) profanity in my papers. I allways protested, since some of the most famous writers in the world had used much worse, but arguing with most teachers is like trying to argue politics with a goldfish.

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Well, technically, doesn't ass mean donkey?

...but in the interests of your grade, you may want to subsitute dunderhead or jackanape for ass wink_o.gif

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Nice essay. I'm sure you will get a nice grade for that. It's funny, though, how your "marine corps -obsession" shines through the text. wink_o.gif

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I enjoyed it. Good job.

If I am still allowed to add a thought:

 I am noticing a trend that people are moving more and more towards doing something that they either enjoy or gives them the ability to express themselves a bit more creatively or intelligently.

For example:

50's-60's Get a stable job, buy a house, marry and read about James Bond type lifestyles

70's-80's Demand more than a stable job, don't worry about a house but rather rent/own a few places in different locations, pretend you are James Bond

90's Realize that you cannot be James Bond so go after anything that allows you to enjoy life. Most likely you'll make good or decent money

2000's Find out your economy is in the toilet. You have nothing more to lose, so become the Botanist, Game-Designer, Consultant, Professor, Rapper... you always wanted to be (and hope you make a buck or two off your website to pay for food!).  

ok... I exaggerated a bit, but you get the point.

A majority of youths are into striking it rich, but I think more of the adults (and the kids as they grow up) are into a more realistic stride of life. I myself packed in my uniform, tools, and manual labor skills (printing industry) and went back to school. I went from a measily $28,000/year yet climbing rapidly to $9000/year and financial aid because I was "bored". My father tries not to work for one company for more than five years because "that's when they getcha!". My mother quit her job as a paralegal to do Interior Decorating out of her home (and is not doing well, but she enjoys it). I think more and more people here are finding that being challenged and creative is more important than money. Unfortunately the economy has stumped this process a bit, but it'll snowball on the upturn. Money will always be a part of it and no matter what country you're from, it always will be. I just don't think it is anything like it used to be. Kids want to be rich, it's the adults that never matured that end up being the greedy bastards. (We have alot of em, but we are also a very large country)

Edit: I did want to add something about middle-management... I almost forgot. They are not all bad. My fiance is in Human Resources. Her company promoted her to middle management to cover the responsibility... and didn't pay her a nickel more. She wants to be a director of Human Resources because she hates how companies always stick it to the employees. She is trying to climb the ladder of knowledge and experience, but they stuck her in middle management because they A) want her to feel like she's getting somewhere while B) making her the scapegoat thats just close enough to the top that you can keep one foot on her head.

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Nice job on the essay...

I just had one last thought... back in the 50's-70's most American households had the father working and the mother staying at home raising children. The trend of both parents working started in the late 70's and now is common place.

What does this say about American society??? Both Mom and Dad have to work full time jobs to reach the "American Dream"rock.gif

I know this could lead to a varied discussion .... but just a thought.

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Good point!

But I think that has something to do more with equality than economics. I imagine that the reason we have both parents needing to work is due to the double income in the early years becoming the standard. The economy just inflated to fit the standard.

but... I could be wrong, it is only a quick guess.

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