The american dream

[bn880 5]

This is... my American dream... well.. actually a German dream heh. which came through yesterday

http://www.europeanmotorsports.net/Pictures/Y26047.jpg

Not bad at all, just remember to share the road.

(I just see the drivers that get their little dream car and think they can now block traffic or make any kind of traffic infraction because of their amazing automotive marvel)

[toadlife 3]

You guys and your European cars...

Heres my materialistic american dream..

[toadlife 3]

it was $2.33 a gallon (that's 3.79 liters).

Wow, its only $1.35 right now were I am.

4.70 USD per gallon here.

Is that a US gallon? There's a big difference.

[bn880 5]

You guys and your European cars...

Heres my materialistic american dream..

http://www.acura.com/assets....ior.jpg

That's ok, I got something 5-10 times cheaper that can out accelerate you greedy bastiges.

[Major Fubar 0]

In Australia petrol costs @ $2.16 US per gallon ($0.90 AUD per litre)...if I'm converting correctly...

[Harnu 0]

Since we're on the topic of materialistic car dreams, how can you forget the 1967 Shelby GT 500!

[ralphwiggum 6]

(I just see the drivers that get their little dream car and think they can now block traffic or make any kind of traffic infraction because of their amazing automotive marvel)

yeah. last guy that gave me such attitude ended up getting chased by me on freeway at speed of 85mph.

Heres my materialistic american dream..

his pic

 

so what is uniqie about 'American' aspect? I think social dynamics is. US has been traditionally a fertile ground for social class change. Jimmy Hoffa was a ruthless union leader, and his son is now a lawyer leading the union.

a poor kid who can bitch about his life in ghetto can rap his way to Brentwood or Malibu.

as long as you are putting up your best, there is a chance to get to better life. comparing to EU, US's tax rate is less, meaning more money ends up in your pocket. thus your reward for an action is paid a bit more, thus more incentive to give it a shot.(of course this is a contributor to materialism and its dominance).

[Major Fubar 0]

Oh, and my American (Australian) dream:

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[Mister 5 0]

My American Dream? Two chicks at the same time...

[Tex -USMC- 0]

Quote[/b] ]Government has nothing to do with whether I succeed or not- it's one function is to secure my rights, and my opportunity. Ultimately, whether I succeed or fail rests on one entity: me.

Amen, Tex.

[sarcasm] Oh, but no! We need our elected officials to make more legislation against the big, evil, greedy, corporate boogy-men that are out to run our lives and dominate the world!   [/sarcasm]

Of course we do, tell that to all the poor guys.  

Amen my ass, it's not only up to you wether you succeed, there are many external events which are 80% of the deciding factor in success, you just have to go along with the right flow.

Look who's being cynical now!

He wanted to know about the American Dream, so there it is. The American Realityâ„¢ is quite different, of course.

[canukausiuka 1]

Quote[/b] ]Government has nothing to do with whether I succeed or not- it's one function is to secure my rights, and my opportunity. Ultimately, whether I succeed or fail rests on one entity: me.

Amen, Tex.

[sarcasm] Oh, but no! We need our elected officials to make more legislation against the big, evil, greedy, corporate boogy-men that are out to run our lives and dominate the world!   [/sarcasm]

Have to say I agree with this as well. I get extremely tired of the "victimized" method of achieving things in this country. People just claim that they were discriminated against, and then suddenly they expect people will support them. I admit that some people have it worse off than others: bad schools, bad neighborhoods, bad parents. But even those that have been through bad shit can still make something of themselves, if they aspire too hard enough.

To make my point, the county I live in is hardly ideal:

Tishoming County

but in the primaries earlier this month, a black candidate for Sheriff lost by 47 votes. This with a black population of less than 4%, in an area mostly portrayed as backwards and racist, and quite poor. How could you explain that if the system was holding him down? He worked hard, made a reputation for himself, and came very close to winning the primary (he's had a recount of the votes, which I doubt he would have done if it hadn't been for the much-publicized precendent in FL, but thats OT).

What I'm saying is that the "American Dream" still exists. It is that ability, though maybe not easy, to make something of yourself. Not by whining, not by begging the government, not by suing people who haven't done anything wrong, but by self-improvement. Yes, its driven in part by ambition, but there are more altruistic reasons for many. How many kids dream of becoming rich, and moving their family out of the slums? How many of those who do move up in the world give back (okay, the motives may not be as good as the action itself)?

Of course, each person has their own dream. Mine is to find a career in a field that I enjoy, buy some land and a house of my own, and raise a family. Sure, I can fantasize all day about being rich, but even then, the things I want to do are not all for myself... I feel a lot more loyalty to my family's needs than to my own. And I feel the same about wants. That's not to say there aren't assholes who could care less about their family, and are working just for number one. But I think (maybe I'm overly optimistic) they are the minority. Regardless, though, the collection of these dreams, and the ability to work towards them... that is the "American Dream".

Of course, to call it the "American Dream" is not so accurate now as it once was. The "dream" is very universal where freedoms exist, but the "dream" really got started in the US, from the first colonists who began to enjoy freedoms here that could not be found elsewhere at the time. Of course, now you can find opportunity and freedom in most of the western world (I would still argue that it's easiest to find opportunity, freedom, and acceptance here, but not the most equal. People who come here looking for the "American Dream" should remember that the government is not the one managing it. We are.)

[Tovarish 0]

Looks like my American (Canadian) dream comes true tomorrow at 7pm EST, when my girl and I pick up the keys to our modest one bedroom appartment and make a temporary dining table and seats out of the banana boxes our stuff is packed in. .

Wow, this is my last night in this room and it looks so freaking weird...the only thing still in place is my computer ...go figure, I'm still a geek . God know when the next time I'll post on these forums from home will be (Bah, I can always visit from school).

[brgnorway 0]

Quote[/b] ]Technically speaking the "American Dream" is actually the "French Dream" as the basic concepts of it was developed by French philosophers during the enlightenment period. This had its roots in the emerging bourgeois social class that had wealth but not nobility. The Amercian revolution and soon thereafter the French revolution were the embodiment of those principles.

Well, I knew that - but I wouldn't call that the inspiration for the present and unclear definated "American dream" .

Of course the enlightenment period had had a great influence on the "founding fathers" of USA, but to say that their "dream" was result of the french burgouis' prosperity and call for greater political freedom would be to stretch the case too far. Actually, one could very well argue that especially Locke's ideas of the distinction between state and society and the individuals right to freedom of property had a more important role for the founding fathers. After all, it was first and foremost Locke's ideas that became revolutionary in it's content in USA.

It is an undoubtable fact that the french revolution played a significant role for the the more modern definition of the consept democracy , but people often forget that the french enlightenment philosofy in large part was influenced by the english revolution.

In addition to this one must not forget that even if the concept of the "burgois" was a concept given meaning by the french revolution - historically the idea of the free citicen can easily be traced back to the (trade) city states of renaissance Italy.

Quote[/b] ]Well, most classical figures are Diderot (also the founder of the first encyclopedia), Montesquieu (defined the basics for the modern state) and of course Voltaire. There were of cousrse other influential European thinkers such as John Locke, Adam Smith and Gotthold Lessing.

I read them all when I studied political science - I just didn't understand what you meant because I understand the American dream to be somewhat more orientated towards symbolic consuming.

By the way - I'm sorry the referendum went down the drain. I guess it makes it even harder for us "yes people" in Norway  

I almost forgot, this is the only materialistic dream for me - and it's definately not american:

[IsthatyouJohnWayne 0]

Good post brgnorway and i more or less agree (except for the car)

Anyway call me crazy but i tend to think it makes more sense to pay attention in everday life to the reality rather than the dream (not saying one cant have dreams). I mean the soviet dream of a workers utopia was wonderful, the reality of the USSR from day to day rather less so...

[brgnorway 0]

Quote[/b] ](except for the car)  

....you are supposed to like it - it's not an option! !  You'r english  

By the way, does this ring a bell? I'm not a number - I'm a free man!

Quote[/b] ]Anyway call me crazy but i tend to think it makes more sense to pay attention in everday life to the reality rather than the dream (not saying one cant have dreams). I mean the soviet dream of a workers utopia was wonderful, the reality of the USSR from day to day rather less so...

Yes indeed, the swedish political scientist Herbert Tingsten said it so well: "From Ideas to Idyll" or the death of the ideologies. His point was that the modern democracy was no longer focused on the ideologies but rather the "small steps politics" . We have become pragmatic - and so has the american dream!

[Oligo 1]

To me, the "American Dream" is essentially about control. It is a brilliant way of keeping the peace in society instead of control by Gestapo tactics. Let me quote:

"We have been told that one day we will all be millionaires and movies gods and rock stars."

We believe that simple slogan, so we toil away to realize that dream. We toil and eventually we die of exhaustion or old age, accomplishing almost nothing. But because of our belief in the American Dream we made no trouble, we lived a quiet life. Our belief in the Dream kept us realizing that life is bleak and simple and that we are just parts in a machine designed to produce more people and more wealth. And that machine, by the way, has no purpose whatsoever, it just is.

No, what we should say is:

"We have been told that one day we will all be millionaires and movies gods and rock stars, but we won't. We are slowly learning that fact and we are very pissed off."

But who to be pissed off at?

(The above quotes are from the novel Fight Club by Chuck Palahniuk)

[WhoCares 0]

I think there are various 'American Dreams':

It started with the first settlers, leaving Europe and make a second start into a better life. This interpretation of the dream is still valid for many of those imigrating today.

(Maybe some were also searching for the 'Land of Milk and Honey' - until they reached the Euphrates and Tigris this spring )

However, this can't be the 'American Dream' for those that are already in for several generations. That's why for those it transformed to the 'from dishwasher to millionaire'-story.

What is mostly discussed in this thread now, is the change in the definition of the goals and the way to reach them.

Egoism and ruthlessness come to my mind. Former ethical qualities like considerateness, modesty and tolerance are more and more jettisoned in our day.

While definatly not unique to americans but valid for most individuals especially in the western hemisphere, I think this is slightly more distinct in them (the americans).

A reason for this might be a higher social pressure, maybe generated by the medias, a lower social coverage (social insurances), whatever...

[Ex-RoNiN 0]

I don't understand this obsession with work, tbh. It may be a remnant from Puritan Times, who knows.

Thing is, work and career are two important aspects of American Life, right? My mate who lives there told me that her friends would look at her strangely if she decided to give up her career, buy a hotel on a Greek island and live off that for the rest of her life. Why, though? Why do they think that working 9-6 in an office is superior to living on a beautiful island, doing easy work and earning easy money, with tons of culture just a boat ride away, with beautiful beaches just down the road etc.?

It may be because I am Greek, but someone that earns lots of money very easily without almost no work is, in my eyes, a lot better off than someone that has to work his rear off. If I had a choice, I would win the lottery, buy a bunch of hotels all over the mediterranean and spend the rest of my life driving my yacht along all those islands and exploring them all.

I spent the past 2 weeks doing my placement in a large IT company and I have already decided (with another 50 weeks ahead of me before I return to uni for my final year) that there is no way that I am going for an IT career. I hate having to go to the office from 9-6, I hate having to stare at a screen all the time and I hate the idea of having to do this for another 30 yrs. Career is not a good thing for me, I don't think. Maybe I should just go through life, exploring as many different aspects of life as possible, who knows.

In the end of the day though, all this doesn't matter. Everyone should do what he or she likes best. If someone wants to have a career, go ahead and make a career! If someone wants to be a lazy bum and live off his parents, then go ahead! As long as it makes you happy, its fair enough IMO. Just leave people alone and let them do what they wanna do

[bn880 5]

I spent the past 2 weeks doing my placement in a large IT company and I have already decided (with another 50 weeks ahead of me before I return to uni for my final year) that there is no way that I am going for an IT career. I hate having to go to the office from 9-6, I hate having to stare at a screen all the time and I hate the idea of having to do this for another 30 yrs. Career is not a good thing for me, I don't think. Maybe I should just go through life, exploring as many different aspects of life as possible, who knows.

It is hard isn't it! I know I've done it as well, it honestly makes me more tired than physical work. However as long as I can find something interesting to work on where I'm not a slave I'll just put up with staring at screens. In the end it's better then many alternatives, and I don't have means to start a profitable business either (and I'm not a good business person anyway).

Damn life, it's so frustrating.

I'm not a career oriented person either, if I can work on interesting projects and just live a "comfortable" life I'll be satisfied. I don't have this vision like some do of forcing my way up the ranks in various companies. While in the meantime destroying my free time and health completely. (I guess I need an ambition injection also)

[canukausiuka 1]

I'm not a career oriented person either, if I can work on interesting projects and just live a "comfortable" life I'll be satisfied.  I don't have this vision like some do of forcing my way up the ranks in various companies.  While in the meantime destroying my free time and health completely.    (I guess I need an ambition injection also)

Exactly. For most of us, we dream of reaching a level of satisfaction, not fantasies of being CEO of a major company, or a Hollywood star, or anything like that.

Of course, I believe our discussion here has a bit of a problem. I dont think there are that many poor OFP players, especially not that would actively visit these forums. So what we have been hearing is a middle class and up opinion, and their opinion of what the lower economic classes might think. I wonder what many of the lower rungs believe the "American Dream" to be.

[Harnu 0]

My American Dream? Two chicks at the same time...

[offtopic] F*ck an A man! (Office Space, the best movie! ) [/offtopic]

Ontopic:

Thank you for all of your thoughts guys. I just started the essay today and have about a page and a half done (Not double spaced yet ).

Once I'm finished (Wednesday or thursday) I'll post the whole essay here.

P.S. If I use something you've said here, I'll PM you so I can give credit where credit is due.

[toadeater 0]

If someone wants to be a lazy bum and live off his parents, then go ahead!

That reminds me, the two biggest lazy bums living off their parents in America:

If you haven't heard of them, they're the Hilton sisters, heiresses to the Hilton hotel chain fortune. Not only do they not have to do a days work in their life , they also look like THAT.

Talk about having everything for nothing. To top it all off, they make even more money from modelling, endorsements, etc.

What about all the starving Iraqis out there?

It's gotta be a deal with the devil? They'll probably melt and turn into zombies in 10 years, right?

[toadlife 3]

Those Girls need to eat some more food.

[Ex-RoNiN 0]

Those Girls need to eat some more food.

I could feed them, oh yes I could

[brgnorway 0]

Those Girls need to eat some more food.

I could feed them, oh yes I could  

hehe - you dirty kamaki boy