Scandinavian airline yields to usa

[Longinius 1]

SAS, a major Scandinavian airline, will from now on hand out information to the US government about its passangers heading to the US of A.

http://www.expressen.se/expressen/jsp/polopoly.jsp?d=10&a=59494

This information can include name, gender, travel route, address, phone number, method of payment and special requests.

Now, I am not to fond of ANYONE tracking my movement at their own leisure. I understand why its being done, but if anyone is investigating me, I'd sure as heck like to know. I dont want to end up in some government database for god knows what reason.

[GoOB 0]

Well luckily I do not travel often by aircraft, but on the other hand any trip longer than to the city is rare for me. I disapprove of this very much. I do not wan't to be tracked by any goverment. And seriously I feel this is an invasion on me as a person. It is like that time a guard came up to me and accused me of smoking in the subway (I never came close to putting a fag in my mouth), and those clerks beliveing you have stolen something from their shop (the worst theft I have commited was trying a piece of candy from those little boxes were you buy candy by the kilo)

[bn880 5]

Doesn't sound bad to me, after all they are passengers heading to the US of A, so the US of A has a right for that info IMO.

EDIT: Well maybe I shouldn't talk, I'm used to the Eastern European border tactics that were in place in the 80's... so having your personal info sent when you fly into a coutnry doesn't bother me one bit.

[Longinius 1]

They have a right to ask me for my info, or I atleast have the right to know who is party to my info. But for it to be handed out to a government agency without my knowledge, is something I disapprove with.

[bn880 5]

yeah it should be stated in full on your ticket or before you buy that when flying to the USA you will have your personal info sent to this and this agency. If you disagree then you don't buy. (edit: also they should provide some law and guarantee from the US where you sign that says your info will not be abused)

Hopefully it will be like this.

[Winters 1]

Im sure there will be some type of disclosure about this fact, Though it will prolly be so small in size you will need the Hubbel to read it.

[Bluesman 0]

A few years ago movies like "Enemy of the State" was fiction. Now it's for real. George Orwells nightmare state is about to become reallity. I bet they'll monitor the color of our "leavings" in toilets sooner or later.

It's a bit like those disclaimers "Privacy Policy". They are valid until they get desperate need for cash. Then your info is for sale to the highest bidder.

So much for personal integrity.

BM

[theavonlady 2]

A few years ago movies like "Enemy of the State" was fiction. Now it's for real.

A slight exageration.

[theavonlady 2]

A few years ago movies like "Enemy of the State" was fiction. Now it's for real.

A slight exageration.

On the other hand.................... look what we did!

[Bluesman 0]

A few years ago movies like "Enemy of the State" was fiction. Now it's for real.

A slight exageration.

On the other hand.................... look what we did!

Well that region is a special situation .

I mean the terrorists real win is if they can take away peoples freedom and liberties, not if they manage to kill a few thousand people. In fact that's their long term goals, to bring everyone down to their level.

BM

[Renagade 0]

Well we can always nuke the area and make it a big seaside resort

What kind of security will ur information be under with the plane stuff

[DracoPaladore 0]

A few years ago movies like "Enemy of the State" was fiction. Now it's for real.

A slight exageration.

On the other hand.................... look what we did!

Well that region is a special situation .

I mean the terrorists real win is if they can take away peoples freedom and liberties, not if they manage to kill a few thousand people. In fact that's their long term goals, to bring everyone down to their level.

BM

Terrorists already won. They instilled fear and terror to the government and people which has made them edgy, impersonal, and lying. As well as jacking the bill of rights(or whatever it's called :S).

But then again, Scandinavia isn't the United States. So they basically are nothing to the Americans constitution until they touch land.

[Dauragon 0]

SAS? Special Air Service

[EiZei 0]

Scandinavian Airlines. Too bad the goverment-owned Finnair decided also to cooperate.

[Bluesman 0]

Should add that this particular decision doesnt bother me that much. It's the long term implications of total control that does.

Personally I'd rather risc getting blown up or shot rather than give up all my liberties and integrity. Life should be worth something imho.

BM

[iNeo 0]

It's just your name etc, amongst a "few" others per day... they won't be tracking someone in particular if they don't have a reason.

[Longinius 1]

Yeah, right. Thats a real good excuse. But I am not buying it. But if you want to live in a police state, thats your call.

[denoir 0]

I'm more worried about the new passports. From next year passports will have to include a biometric mark (fingerprint) if you want to enter the US without a visa. We in Sweden have very strict constitutional regulations when it comes to that so at least the finger prints will not be stored in any database. That doesn't however prevent other countries from scanning the passport and entering it into their database.

And that's bad. Untracked freedom of movement is a fundamental pillar of democracy. I'm worried that we are building an infrastructure that may be abused in the future. You don't know what kind of government you'll have in the future. If you have an infrastructure that allows the tracking of the activities of the citizens, this might easily abused to for example track down political dissidents.

Our privacy and freedom of movement is something we must safeguard. Especially today when more and more things are done by computer which keep records of all activities.

Sure, keeping track of everybody would help to fight crime and terrorism - but at what cost? We aren't exactly doing our society a favour by turning it into a police state. Letting the police to search your home every now and then without a reason would also help reduce crime but you don't see many people advocating that. The computer record case is very similar but unfortunately people don't see it as it is on a higher level on abstraction. But it is just as intrusive.

But hey - if you have nothing to hide then you have nothing to worry about, right?

[stgn 39]

A few years ago movies like "Enemy of the State" was fiction. Now it's for real.

A slight exageration.

On the other hand.................... look what we did!

Well that region is a special situation .

I mean the terrorists real win is if they can take away peoples freedom and liberties, not if they manage to kill a few thousand people. In fact that's their long term goals, to bring everyone down to their level.

BM

Terrorists already won. They instilled fear and terror to the government and people which has made them edgy, impersonal, and lying. As well as jacking the bill of rights(or whatever it's called :S).

But then again, Scandinavia isn't the United States. So they basically are nothing to the Americans constitution until they touch land.

Scandinavia may not be but Denmark is becoming USA light.

the goverment is planing a homeland security agency(or what the americans call it) and it is only in denmark and USA you have the biggest traktors, if John Deer made a new tracktor there whouldent go long be fore it would be in Denmark too.

this is no criticisem of USA nor Denmark just some facts.

STGN

[Tex -USMC- 0]

But hey - if you have nothing to hide then you have nothing to worry about, right?  

To me, the important part of this question is not what you are hiding, but rather who/what are you hiding it from. We all generally agree that if our government was completely good and trustworthy, then it would be in our best interest to give it as much latitude as needed for fighting crime. Unfortunately, we have no guarantees as to the nature of our government, either in the future or in the present. Would tracking databases and unlimited surveillance reduce terrorism? Absolutely. But what happens when the government's intentions shift, or the definition of terrorist is changed to include political opponents? Then we're fucked, and we'd deserve it to- after all, we're the ones saying stupid shit like "Well, I don't have anything to hide, so I think it's fine" or "Whatever they have to do to make me safe"- no wonder the government thinks it can lead us around like sheep.

[denoir 0]

That was exactly my point. The sentence you posted was meant to be sarcastic

[Tex -USMC- 0]

That was exactly my point. The sentence you posted was meant to be sarcastic

I know- I figured I'd just elaborate for the hell of it. Hehe, we've had enough conversations on this subject to be able to predict responses

[Jinef 2]

George Orwell would turn in his grave.

Next it will be cameras in old people's and more vulnerable people's homes, 'for their own safety'.

Then it will be audio recording in all our homes, big brother is coming true. We will be fully known and monitored in 30 years.

[Baron Hurlothrumbo IIX 0]

I agree with Denoir.

@STGN: the biggest agricultural machines are Combines; the width of the table (the sawtooth area below the big turny wheely thing* ) is usually the measure of how big the combine is: AFAIK the US is the only place which routinely buys the largest headers/ tables, due to their enormously huge fields. I don't really see the relevance, though.

*technical term

[Schoeler 0]

I'm not so sure. I mean how much does this differ from systems that are already in place in a lot of countries? To enter any foreign nation you must have a passport, so tracking is already somewhat in place isn't it? Who's to say that an intelligence agency hasn't already been recieiving that information? It would surprise me if they weren't. Look at the NSA, they use that system echelon to track phone calls. Say the words "terrorism" or "George Bush" on an international call, or in certain key domestic phone conversations, and your call is recorded and analyzed in Fort Detrick Maryland by a communications specialist. Every country has a right to know exactly who it is that is entering their borders and what their business is. I'd bet if I entered certain countries right now, with my military background and the fact that my family works in the defense industry, their intelligence agencies would know who I was and where I was going and why I was there. Everybody spies on everybody else. To me, this at least seems like an open acknowledgment of activities that were already occurring.