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SKULLS_Viper

Man killed by teen video gamers

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I hope sony pursues him for legal fees with all the punitive power they can muster.  What an idiot.

Yes, I can just see Mr & Mrs Joe Blow taking Sony to court. Imagine the legal forces Sony can afford to wield against these people. They haven't got a chance...

As an aside: anyone know how many copies of GTA3 and Vice City have sold around the world? It would be an interesting figure to comapre against 1 incident allegedly caused by the game...

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hmm-

Quote[/b] ]

Date of Incident: 2/3/01

Source: Entertainment Weekly, 4/6/01

Overview: Jackass copycat sets himself aflame.

Specifics: Imitating what he had seen on MTV’s Jackass, Thomas Hitz, 12, of Lake Mary, Fla., doused his hand in bug spray and lit it. Seconds later his shirt burst into flames. Hitz then dove into a nearby swimming pool to extinguish the fire. He was treated for second- and third-degree burns. His friends, ages 8 to 13, were doubled over with laughter, just like Jackass star Johnny Knoxville’s onscreen sidekicks. “I don’t blame myself, I kind of blame the show,†says Hitz. “We did it because we saw [it] on Jackass and we were copying the show. In real life kids don’t think. They think they’re invincible, so they don’t worry about what will happen.†He goes on to say that he and his pals were trying to follow Knoxville’s career path. And even though MTV doesn’t solicit videotaped material for Jackass, Hitz hoped to win fame and money by sending in his own tape. He had already taped himself and his friends doing back flips off of a roof and jumping on pogo sticks in traffic.

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“I don’t blame myself, I kind of blame the show,â€

I'd love to break a chair over this kid's head and blame it on Jerry Springer.

Quote[/b] ]He had already taped himself and his friends doing back flips off of a roof and jumping on pogo sticks in traffic.  

That's right kid, keep playing in traffic.

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This topic is a pet peeve of mine, because basically every hobby and interest I've ever had has come under media attack at one time or another:

- Action (violent) movies and TV shows

- Horror movies

- Dungeons & dragons RPG

- Heavy metal music

- Action (violent) computer games

At some point each and every one of these things has been made the scapegoat (by the "unbiased" media) for a homicide or suicide case(s). Maybe people who want to throw this kind of pointless blame around wont be happy until:

a.) All we watch is Barney and Father Knows Best reruns

b.) The only movies we watch are Julia Roberts or Reece Witherspoon romantic comedies

c.) The only hobbies we have knitting and prayer groups

d.) The only music we listen to is the Carpenters and Hanson

e.) The only computer games we play are Tetris or Barbie Makeover Simulator

What a wonderful world that would be...just shoot me now. rock.gif

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What a wonderful world that would be...just shoot me now.  rock.gif

Hmm, if someone did that. Would your family and loved ones file a lawsuit against those 'unbiased' media outlets that inspired your will to be shot? wink_o.gif  tounge_o.gif

Now that's a lawsuit worth fighting: An effort to censor those 'doogooder' (read: EVIL) organisations that try to censor what can be sold/shown/heared to the public. You know the ones, the mum's that lobby for X movie to be changed because it has X in it and shouldn't have been given a X rating so that this age group shouldn't have been able to see it. The old farts that petition for live music venues to be closed down, even though the venue was there before the retirement village was concieved to be built next door.

In general, minority groups (and no I don't mean as in Race's or Religion's) that demand this and demand that are just stupid pains in the asses.

Whats worse is when the law or governing body's implement the outrageous and pointless demands that they lobby for.

On a lighter note: I really don't care if kids jump off of buildings trying to imitate superman or whatever. If their stupid enough to do such a thing then they don't deserve to have their genes passed on to another generation. IE, if they were stupid enough to take themselves out now, then let all the stupid ones do that, so that the gene pool rids itself of idiots. Basically, it's Darwins theory of evolution in action, survival of the fittest, or in this case, self-elimination of the dumbest.

I'm a fan of the 'Darwin Awards' and have been so since I found out about it's existance in a magazine . If you don't quite know what the darwin award is it's

Quote[/b] ]Named in honor of Charles Darwin, the father of evolution, the Darwin Awards commemorate those who improve our gene pool by removing themselves from it.

Check out http://www.darwinawards.com and browse around. It's worth a laugh.

[edit] 1995's winner is the best I think [/edit} biggrin_o.gif

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Quote[/b] ]Monkey Think, Monkey Do

(from Gear magazine, December 2001)

by Chuck Palahniuk

If we create an idea, will it inevitably come to fruition?

Chuck Palahniuk on all those bad, bad thoughts that can't be unthought.

This summer a young man pulled aside in a bookstore and said he loved how in Fight Club I wrote about waiters tainting food. He asked me to sign a book and said he worked in a five-star restaurant where they monkey with celebrities' food all the time.

"Margaret Thatcher," he said, "has eaten my sperm." He held up one hand, fingers spread, and said, "At least five times."

Writing that book, I knew a movie projectionist who collected single frames from porno movies and made them into slides. When I talked to people about cutting these frames into G-rated family movies, one friend said, "Don't. People will read that, and they'll start doing it."

Later, when they were shooting the Fight Club movie, some Hollywood big names told me the book hit home because they, themselves, had spliced porno into movies as angry teenage projectionists. People told me about blowing their noses into hamburgers. They told me about changing the bottles of hair dye from box to box in the drug store, blonde into black et cetera, and coming back to see angry wild-dyed people screaming at the store manager. This was the decade of "transgressional novels," starting early with American Psycho and continuing with Trainspotting and Fight Club. These were novels about bored bad boys who'd try anything to feel alive. Everything people told me, I could sell.

On ever book tour, people told me how each time they sat in the emergency exit row on an airplane, the whole flight was a struggle not to pop that door open. The air sucked out of the plane, the oxygen masks falling, the screaming chaos and "Mayday, Mayday!" emergency landing, it was all so clear. The door, so begging to be opened.

The Danish philosopher, Soren Kierkegaard, defines dread as the knowledge of what you must do to prove you're free, even if it will destroy you. His example id Adam in the Garden of Eden, happy and content until God shows him the Tree of Knowledge and says, "Don't eat this." Now, Adam is no longer free. Thee is one rule he can break, he must break to prove his freedom, even if it destroys him. Kierkegaard says the moment we are forbidden to do something, we will do it. It is inevitable.

Monkey think, monkey do.

According to Kierkegaard, the person who allows the law to control his life, who says the possible isn't possible just because it's illegal, is leading the inauthentic life.

In Portland, Oregon, where I live, someone is filling tennis balls with hundreds of match heads and taping them shut. They leave the balls on the street for anyone to find, and any kick or throw will make them explode. So far, a man's lost a foot, a dog, its head.

Now the graffiti taggers are using acid glass-etching creams to write on shop and car windows. At Tigard High School, a teenage boy takes his shit and wipes it around the walls of the men's bathrooms. The school knows him only as "The Una-Pooper." Nobody's supposed to talk about him because they're afraid of copycats.

As Kierkegaard would say, every time we see what's possible, we make it happen. We make it inevitable. Until Stephen King wrote about high school losers killing their peer groups, school shootings were unknown. But did Carrie and Rage make it inevitable?

Millions of us paid money to watch the Empire State Building destroyed in Independence Day. Now the Department of Defense has enrolled the best Hollywood creative people to brainstorm terrorist scenarios, including director David Fincher, the man who made the Century City skyline collapse in Fight Club. We want to know every way we might be attacked. So we can be prepared.

Because of Ted Kacyzynski. the Unabomber, you can't mail a package without going to a post office clerk. Because of people dropping bowling balls onto freeways, we have fences enclosing highway overpasses.

All of this, reactive. As if we can protect ourselves against everything.

This summer the man convicted of killing my father said, hey, the state could give him the death penalty, but he and his white supremacist friends had built and buried several anthrax bombs around Spokane, Washington. If the state killed him, someday a backhoe would rupture a buried bomb and tens of thousands would die.

What's coming is a million new reasons not to live your life. You can deny your possibility to success and blame it on something else. You can fight against everything - Margaret Thatcher, property owners, the urge to open that door mid-flight, God... everything you pretend keeps you down. You can live Kierkegaard's inauthentic life. Or you can make what Kierkegaard called your Leap of Faith, where you stop living as a reaction and start living as a force for what you say should be. What's coming is a million new reasons to go ahead.

What's going out is the cathartic transgressional novel, now that we have someone to hate more than each other.

Ideas are dangerous. If monkey is presented an idea, monkey will make it happen. But should we ban all ideas because of that?

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Quote[/b] ]Ideas are dangerous. If monkey is presented an idea, monkey will make it happen. But should we ban all ideas because of that?

Hmmm, after reading than article, it's a tough question. To ban ideas, society would never advance, let alone be able to refine. Monkeys are different. The Una-Pooper displayed his monkey like mind by his smearing his shit on the wall. Why someone would do this, I don't know. But I do know that they would need help. The boys that shot the cars are barely more than monkeys. Copying what they had seen, without having any evidence of a conscience until it was too late.

The gene pool will unfortunately, be always tainted with nutcases. And unfortunately, by killing the poor motorist who worked at a juvenile centre, they set the human race back yet again. But, it must also be remembered that genious's can blur the line between sanity and insanity. And without genious's, where would the human race be today?

Shame on those monkeys. You don't deserve the prestigious title that is 'gamer'.

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hmm-
Quote[/b] ]

Date of Incident: 2/3/01

Source: Entertainment Weekly, 4/6/01

Overview: Jackass copycat sets himself aflame.

Specifics: Imitating what he had seen on MTV’s Jackass, Thomas Hitz, 12, of Lake Mary, Fla., doused his hand in bug spray and lit it. Seconds later his shirt burst into flames. Hitz then dove into a nearby swimming pool to extinguish the fire. He was treated for second- and third-degree burns. His friends, ages 8 to 13, were doubled over with laughter, just like Jackass star Johnny Knoxville’s onscreen sidekicks. “I don’t blame myself, I kind of blame the show,†says Hitz. “We did it because we saw [it] on Jackass and we were copying the show. In real life kids don’t think. They think they’re invincible, so they don’t worry about what will happen.†He goes on to say that he and his pals were trying to follow Knoxville’s career path. And even though MTV doesn’t solicit videotaped material for Jackass, Hitz hoped to win fame and money by sending in his own tape. He had already taped himself and his friends doing back flips off of a roof and jumping on pogo sticks in traffic.

I never had any human fireball problems when i set my arms on fire tounge_o.gif

Quote[/b] ]The Hamel family hired attorney Jack Thompson and filed suit Thursday against TAKE2interactive, the video game maker. Thompson says it's time to send a message to the video game makers.

TAKE2 weren`t the makers though that would be rockstar,it would be like someone suing codemasters instead of b is if they had said they were copying OFP.

Well i guess pulishers have bigger pockets wink_o.gif

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Quote[/b] ]In Portland, Oregon, where I live, someone is filling tennis balls with hundreds of match heads and taping them shut. They leave the balls on the street for anyone to find, and any kick or throw will make them explode. So far, a man's lost a foot, a dog, its head.

man i know of stupid disrepectful things like random vandilismm and theft but that just takes the biscuit crazy_o.gif

If they want to d o stupid stuff like that they should take it too the woods or somewhere else where the only one they`ll blow up is theirself.

Quote[/b] ]As Kierkegaard would say, every time we see what's possible, we make it happen. We make it inevitable. Until Stephen King wrote about high school losers killing their peer groups, school shootings were unknown. But did Carrie and Rage make it inevitable?

I kinde disagree with this as that incident seemed more like revenge even if they did shoot other innocents.

Quote[/b] ]According to Kierkegaard, the person who allows the law to control his life, who says the possible isn't possible just because it's illegal, is leading the inauthentic life.

The ironic thing is,instead of following one set of "rules" there a different lot rock.gif

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Why are you so preoccupied with safety? Have you had any problems with tennis balls exploding lately? Jackasses on your flight popping emergency exits? Anthrax bombs? Didn't think so. No doubt that many folks value their skin much higher than I do mine, but honestly, don't allow yourself to be frightened by shadows. When you have a good reason to be scared, then fine, but anecdotes and scare tactics do nothing to clarify the realities of a possibly dangerous situation. But that's besides the point: ultimately, freedom is the antithesis of security- if you want one, you must be willing to trade the other, in degrees or in totality. Pick one and deal with the consequences- that's just how it is.

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@ Sep. 09 2003,03:44)]But that's besides the point: ultimately, freedom is the antithesis of security- if you want one, you must be willing to trade the other, in degrees or in totality. Pick one and deal with the consequences- that's just how it is.

You're absolutely right. However, only a fraction of the people in this world realize this. Most people think you can have both freedom and security.

Anyway, what I was trying to say with my earlier post is that I am not at all surprised by the fact that some dimwit imitated Grand Theft Auto or Jackass. Whenever a new idea is presented, some monkey will imitate it, it is inevitable. This is just something we should accept, hell, at least it weeds out total morons from the society. But of course society has to try to assign blame. Nobody is responsible for what they do anymore, it's ridiculous.

If I poured gasoline on my head and lit a match, I wouldn't blame anybody else for getting burned. That kid knew perfectly well that if you pour flammable liquid on yourself and light it, you will get burned. Yet he is blaming Jackass, which is by the way quite educational since it actually shows what happens to real people when they do stupid shit (it's not like a cartoon where nobody ever gets hurt).

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- Dungeons & dragons RPG

You too, interesting. Nice to have another D&D player on the forums smile_o.gif

And Tetris is a very violent game, and so are all those Barbie games. Not to mention all that sexual content!

If there is ever going to be another thread about these kind of things I want the topic to read:

"Parents of kids that kill and blame it on video games killed by angry gamer."

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Quote[/b] ]This topic is a pet peeve of mine, because basically every hobby and interest I've ever had has come under media attack at one time or another:

- Action (violent) movies and TV shows

- Horror movies

- Dungeons & dragons RPG

- Heavy metal music

- Action (violent) computer games

You're an accident waiting to happen biggrin_o.gif Allot of people have these interests but rarely do they let them lead them to such acts as the young men this topic is about. That in it self is some proof. Were these things really stimulants towards violence then we should have loads of these occurances. Yet we dont. There is no statistically viable link between the two. If a person has a tendency to violence he will do these things wether he listens to Marrilyn Manson or ABBA (though ABBA makes me feel violent wink_o.gif thank you sweden "for the music"*barf* smile_o.gif )

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and as time goes......

http://www.cnn.com/2003/LAW/10/22/videogame.lawsuit.ap/index.html

Quote[/b] ]Lawsuit filed against Sony, Wal-Mart over game linked to shootings

KNOXVILLE, Tennessee (AP) -- A $246 million lawsuit was filed against the designer, marketer and a retailer of the video game series "Grand Theft Auto" by the families of two people shot by teenagers apparently inspired by the game.

The suit claims marketer Sony Computer Entertainment America Inc., designers Take-Two Interactive Software and Rockstar Games, and Wal-Mart, are liable for $46 million in compensatory damages and $200 million in punitive damages.

and the lawsuit is now targeting the retailer, not just the maker.

Quote[/b] ]The 6th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals ruled in the case last year that it was "simply to far a leap from shooting characters on a video screen to shooting people in a classroom."

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and as time goes......

http://www.cnn.com/2003/LAW/10/22/videogame.lawsuit.ap/index.html

Quote[/b] ]Lawsuit filed against Sony, Wal-Mart over game linked to shootings

KNOXVILLE, Tennessee (AP) -- A $246 million lawsuit was filed against the designer, marketer and a retailer of the video game series "Grand Theft Auto" by the families of two people shot by teenagers apparently inspired by the game.

The suit claims marketer Sony Computer Entertainment America Inc., designers Take-Two Interactive Software and Rockstar Games, and Wal-Mart, are liable for $46 million in compensatory damages and $200 million in punitive damages.

and the lawsuit is now targeting the retailer, not just the maker.

Quote[/b] ]The 6th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals ruled in the case last year that it was "simply to far a leap from shooting characters on a video screen to shooting people in a classroom."

Just as long as the parents don't have to live with the idea it was a conscious decision to shoot someone made by thier sons/daughters, it seems there is always someone else they can blame.

How often do these "inspired killings" happen?

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Like I said earlier, I would love to get some background info on how these kids were raised and what kind of families they come from.

Man, I hope this gets bounced right out of court, otherwise it's going to start making game designers second-guess the reaction that a disturbed mind is going to have to their game, until basically all action and violence is censored from games.

I can undertsand the families of the victims being pissed off...but can they honestly believe the game is to blame, and not the obviously lacking upbringing these moronic kids had?

Anyone know the sales figures for GTA and Vice City? 1 incident out of millions of sales hardly seems to constitute a pattern, does it?

$246,000,000.00 - what a joke. Thats not an attempt at justice, that's just greed...cashing in on the life of their family member. If they were interested in justice, they would be trying to get the game designers held accountable for 2nd degree manslaughter or something...vultures...

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I agree.. but hey this is America, the only country where kids somehow gets inspired by violent games and movies, heavy metal music etc!?

Be reasonable and get rid of the second amendment, the right of the people to keep and bear arms.

But I know USA will never do that 'cause it isn't the senators kids who gets killed.

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Quote[/b] ]"We want to send a message with a huge verdict to Sony and TAKE2interactive and the entire video game industry that if they're going to continue to market adult-rated games to children with these horrific consequence
Quote[/b] ]Hmm, good argument - except these games aren't marketed to children

Actually they are marketing them to teenagers. They make a game that appeals to 13 - 20 year olds and then slap a label on it that says you have to be 17 to buy it. They do so knowing that their target audience will find a way around the age requirement. There aren't any substantial punishments for the merchants or parents who purchase them for people who purchase them for people under 17. I have seen GTA Vice City, and it's predecessors, and can definately say that those games were not written for adults.

I do agree that media culture has had a major influence on our lives. Some movies, some television, some video games, and the whole rap/gangsta culture thing haven't been doing us a whole lot of good as humans.

I wanted to add a little bit to this post. My hobbies include, and have included over the years:

PnP rolepalying games (Runequest being the best)

Video Games

Paintballing

Shooting

Boxing

and Martial Arts

Between that and my job I have had more than an average exposure to violence and violent culture. I don't believe that violent games, genres, etc. will cause a well adjusted person to commit violence. But I don't think we're talking about well adjusted individuals in this case. We're talking about amoral children that are in the age range where they feel ten feet tall and bulletproof and also don't exactly have a thought process that recognizes things like consequences. Through my employment, I deal with 18-25 year olds on a regular basis and don't see much of an emphasis on personal responsibility for much of.... anything. Now I will qualify that last statement by saying that the majority of those people have elected to get into trouble to one level or another. But many of the same juvenile thought processes are still going on in the 20+ year olds. Such as the "pack mentality" i.e. if others are doing it, or with me, then I can really act out and we never rat anyone out no matter what they do. So when I see GTA (and it's glorification of random violence), or hear a rap song where someone's talking about shooting someone, I don't see anything but garbage.

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Quote[/b] ]While I can symapthise with the families of the deceased,they are looking at the wrong target. Like I said, sue the idiot parents who raised their children with no common sense and/or no regard for human life, let them have access to adult rated games and let them have access to guns.

But Fubar, the parents don't have enough money to quench these peoples' greed for cash. Instead, these idiots will sue anyone who is even remotely connected to the incidents, as long as they have lots of cash. First it's Take2 and Rockstar, then it's Walmart for selling these games, then it's gun companies, then it's Valve for creating Half-Life and starting the violent FPS craze, then it's Sony for selling the PS2, etc... There's a huge amount of sueable companies for them, and all the idiots need are effective lawyers and stupid juries.

Quote[/b] ]I do agree that media culture has had a major influence on our lives. Movies, television, video games, and the whole rap/gangsta culture thing haven't been doing us a whole lot of good as humans.

I am another member of the group that has played GTA III, enjoyed it, and not felt the urge to grab one of many available guns and go on a rampage. Basically, the dumber/younger you are, the more the media affects you. As long as you're semi-mature or are fairly smart, you'll realize that games are fantasies, not realities.

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The Son of Sam serial killer said that a black labradore dog told him to commit the killings...should the victims families have sued the local labradore breeders?

Any number of things could trigger a disturbed mind. Do I think GTA was a factor in this incident? Yes. Do I think it is the underlying cause of the incident? No.

How many deaths a year can be directly and indirectly attributed to alcohol? Should we ban alcohol? (Seeing how well that worked last time). What we do is put a minimum age restriction on it...much like is now done with violent games.

And I don't agree that these games are targetted at adolescents - heck, I'm 31 and I love games like GTA and Postal. I'm sure they appeal to people under 17...so does pornography, liquor, cigarettes, driving a car, and all the other things in this world that we put age restrictions on. Maybe the penalties for game vendors who are lax in checking IDs should be increased.

In short, the majority of resposible gamers should not be punished for the actions of an incredibly small minority. People need to start taking responsibility for their own (and their children's) actions, and not look for a quick fix and a quick buck.

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Fubar,

I realize that people over 30 enjoy these games as well, but I believe that the target demographic is really teenagers. If they set the age limit at 30 for GTA it would be a huge commercial failure. Also think back to when you were 17. Did you think the same way you do now? Our thought processes definately mature as we age. We understand things differently because we can take the long view on life. We can play a game like GTA, but our concept of right and wrong has already been established. At 17 we're still in pretty new territory when it comes to life. That's why I don't see a whole of value in games that seem to revel in pointless violence against innocents.

Unfortunately, responsible and intelligent gamers do have to bear the burden placed upon them by the stupid. I am an avid paintballer and I just got done getting some political action accomplished in keeping the Department of Natural Resources from banning paintball on public lands. They aren't intrinsically anti-paintball, but their opinions are formed by the morons who decide to shoot up houses, vehicles, road signs, pedestrians, wildlife, etc. The majority of these brain surgeons are bored teenagers. As a paintballer, the whole group is being punished for the actions of a few and I've had to devote time and resources to try and undo some damage. That's just life. One moron sends a much more powerful message than a hundred responsible people.

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