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ThruYerStErNuM

Unscripted war

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Lol man...a Tonal version of this would make my computer explode tounge_o.gif

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No...

Think of it as a huge capture the island mission....the enemy will react dynamically to your movements and you can call in reinforcements and stuff...

So there are no specific objectives or things that will always happen a certain way - it most definitely does not suck (when it works right :P)

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Too bad the AI kind of...dies after you set up 3 or so LZs.

And not to mention that especially nasty bug where you can't switch command of teams anymore, which totally ruins the mission mad_o.gif

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Too bad the AI kind of...dies after you set up 3 or so LZs.

And not to mention that especially nasty bug where you can't switch command of teams anymore, which totally ruins the mission  mad_o.gif

I've noticed that...roughly 3 LZs set up and it's "all quiet on the western front."

Sometimes it can take a good day or two before the enemy markers update...I'll send my boys in and clear the place out, then patrol it for a while without contact, and only after quite a bit of time does the game seem to remember "oh that's right I have scripts to run."  Strange.  I noticed the same thing with music....nothing for a while, then suddenly it kicks in again.

For example, I took a town and even a full day later it was still marked "heavy enemy activity" though when I cleared it all I found were three infantrymen and a mortar.  Almost two game days of peace and quiet later, the front lines suddenly updated.

Then, out of the blue, a whole mess of bad guys will attack me after one of those long dead periods.  It happend to me just yesterday, in fact.

The command bug usually doesn't bother me but it would be nice to have it killed - there are some occasions where I'd like to use that feature though I usually don't.

Some other things I've noticed:

1.  Frequently guys are missed when you select "clear corpses."

2.  Had some instances in which my loons were refusing to take stuff from ammo boxes when ordered.

3.  MGs at the LZs aren't very alert....had some baddies pop up nearby and I offed half of them with my trusty carbine before the gunner even noticed them.

4.  I found one single pair of NVGs in one of the ammo boxes....I'm not complaining but are those supposed to be available at all?

5.  Get crazy script errors when I place an LZ and it rotates to face the enemy positions (watch when you set one up - it actually repositions the stuff). This didn't cause any problems but it's all splayed out across the top of the screen.

6.  Had played this with v 1.96 and there were script failures in it (didn't calculate reinforcement points at all - gave me "string scalar variable loop" nonsense instead) - had to revert to 1.91.

7.  No Nam weapons in the trucks at your main base - they're pointless without Nam gear.

8.  There were a bunch of empty civvie planes on the Ia Drang map - get rid of them.  Nobody's going to use those for anything.

9.  You need to implement a script in the next version that alerts you if one of your teams is getting it's ass kicked in a firefight - on occasion I've accidentally left a team or two out to dry and before I got around to checking up on them, they were getting hammered.  Sometimes they make contact with lots of baddies while I'm busy.

10.  AI and pistols....damn, that's irritating.  I can't tell you how many times some jerk with a Tokarev has been blasting away at me - though it made me smile when I introduced him to the business end of a CAR15.  Not really your problem, I know, but it's irritating all the same.

11.  Sometimes the AI squads tell you that they know of enemy positions but refuse to actually engage those enemies - usually happens with the emplaced weapons or stragglers.

12.  The randomly placed heavy weapons are a good idea, but more often than not they're just sitting out in the open with no support at all.  Even stranger, I once found LZ columbus defended by an empty machinegun - not another soul in sight.

13.  What do the black exclamation points mean?  I thought it had something to do with emplaced weapons but it doesn't seem to have any discernable pattern...

14.  Sometimes defended and secured LZs don't accrue any points for hours.

15.  AI squads reach their waypoints and sometimes they patrol randomly, sometimes they just stand there - what's the catch?

16.  In the tutorial, it sounded like you could alt-click or something to select units on the map with your mouse - that's never worked for me.  I select them via the radio menu.

Now, that's a rather long list, but most of them are small problems that don't seriously f*ck up gameplay - I can live with the small bugs if the big picture works right.

Problem is, those bigger bugs tends to manifest themselves after a while and make everything grind to a halt.

I still think this is the best idea for OFP that I've ever seen and even with it's problems it's a crapload of fun...please find a way to iron this mission out and re-release it. smile_o.gif

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I can't download the f4 addon, the link at ofp.info and in the readme doesn't work. I've tried disabling the dl manager but that doesn't help.

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Great commentary Seal. Hope v2 will take the "rough" out of this rough diamond!

Agree that a Tonal version would be v. nice, though I've a hankering myself to lead a ragtag rebel force against TDF supply lines. I can see myself now, moving my UA mortar platoons and ZU-23-2's around the jungle and hammering through the desert with my fleet of technicals - Lawrence of Lorengau!!

Cheers,

Cornhelium

Edit: Here's the correct F4: http://ofp.gamezone.cz/index.p....&page=6

It's Remo's F4 (vitnamf4.zip) posted at that site on 30th March 03 (can't link you directly to the zip for some reason but the download link still works)

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*goes back to play some more before watching the NHL All-Star game later* tounge_o.gif

I'd volunteer to help with this project if I could, but unfortunately I don't know my ass from my elbow when scripting (at least with regard to the kind of stuff in this mission) wink_o.gif

Perhaps someone who knows this stuff inside and out could contact TYS and offer him a hand....

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I've given up on the f4 addon, I depbo'd the mission and edited the mission.sqm in notepad to remove the f4 from the reqired addons list.

The mission lags quite a bit, even with foilige on 0%, scale of war on minimum, ofpec blood off. I'm using the new ECP but it hardly causes any lag.

Overall the mission is pretty good, i havn't played much yet.

The remove corpses feature misses a few corpses

When i start i get messages from the choppers that they are going down, somehow they activate the ECP tailrotor failure script wow_o.gif Keep working on this mission, its very good.

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Has a "lite" version of this mission been made? I tried my best to enjoy it when this was first released but there were performance issues and the time acceleration caused problems and for some reason I couldn't disable it... and blah.

It's a great concept to be sure. I'd much rather play a dynamic mission at this point than anything else.

It just seems like it causes too many headaches to make it enjoyable. Then again I'm really picky about framerate lost due to lack of optimization.

I'll probably stick to playing the enemystack demo, CTI and my spawnmanager missions.

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I haven't tried this for ages, or looked into editing it but how hard would it be for someone to convert it for a Tonal war?

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i converted it to Tonal but still useing the SEBnam units. was just a matter of moving the triggers and objects around. looking at the scripts to change the units was over my head.

..and as for Tonal being too laggy for this, i dont think so, adjusting settings would make it playable. i drool at the thought of this on Tonal with the BAS units.

the main airstrip in the centre would be perfect for an operations base.

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im making so many changes - many performance improving - that i cant release the mess of what it currently is. I can release a stripped down version with non mission or ai driven gameplay, sortof a combination of what the last released version (only 1.01) and what i have now are. But with ever little time - I'll tell you all how to get whatever version you want.

I can make any version you want with any addons given all of the following information (it takes a long time to plan all this stuff, so give me details to work with and I can work much faster):

(Assume West is player side -west and east can be switched though)

1. A list of every group on the east side, in names of units, and the relative frequencies of each occurring in game (such lists would help out a lot) - keep in mind there can be types of groups with different frequencies of occurrence, like infantry vs tank vs air. Also - should the relative frequencies of occurrence change as the game progresses, and in what way?

2. (different from number 1), A list of every group on the west side that can come in through reinforcements, in unit names, and the relative frequency (or cost if that is the game type) of each group.

3. Where should the player start, and in what way (like chopper insertion, boat insertion, I can make a scripted starting battle fairly easily in the mission editor)

4. Does the enemy get virtual artillery, meaning they shoot but you can never find from where. How much, etc.

5. Speed and frequency of enemy attacks, or should they patrol their own turf more instead (this is where the tough scripting that almost no one but me would understand comes in)

6. Should they get extra randomly generated stuff, like camps, extra villages, wandering civilians, anything - don’t worry about lag, my scripts sort of auto delete them now. For this one, I need exact names of stuff to be generated, and a list of relative coordinates of each object in the random occurrence. (I can also do something like make civilians only occur in villages already existing on the map.)

7. What is required for west to get reinforcements, and how will they arrive and from where (reinforcement timing can be done automatically based on amount of fighting and deaths, or player command only as it is now). Give me names of objects for everything in the stuff that can be set up by the player too, and conditions in which they can be set up.

8. Places to send these reinforcements - be it LZs or camps the player sets up, or just straight to wherever the front line is determined to be, or where the most action is taking place.

9. What fire support will be available to player (as commander) and squad leaders.

10. Will support/reinforcements be available based on time, or other factors such as points earned from kills.

11. Will the player be able to spectate over his forces, take command of any group, or do the "switch with leader" thing, allowing immediate jumping around the island.

12. What addons do I need for the units you mention lol

So email or post details, and the more you have (hopefully) the faster I can release a version of Unscripted War.

As you can see, a completely realistic game could seemingly emerge if enough complexity is added through chain of command driven automatic west control, and a more mission driven progression based on intellegence shared by the AI. Also adding in scripted occurances for times of inactivity (such as sleep) and voice work for random characters would greatly add to immersion - but going that far would require BIS intevention  crazy_o.gif

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Hey TYS,

Wow - in a way I'm reluctant to suggest a new adaptation for UW because I feel you should just carry on with the new Ia Drang map and get UW to the state you want it to be in, then the adaptations could more easily be made.

...having said that, here's my dream UW  tounge_o.gif  :

Island is Tonal

East (Tonal Rebel Force) is player side. Resistance (Tonal Defence Force) is Enemy.

1. Government HD Squad 10%, Government HD Scout Team 5%, Government HD Scout Patrol 5%, Government HD Stick 10%, Government HD Vehicle Patrol 10%, Government HD Mechanised Infantry 10%, Militia HD Squad 15%, Civilian Mob 10% (Set to always stand up  wink_o.gif   [note 1] )

Gov. BMP 3%, Gov. BRDM PK/DsHK 3%, Gov. T-55 3%, Gov. UAZ PK/DsHK 2%, Gov. Mi24 2%

, Gov. Ural 7% [note 2] , Gov. Mi18 1% [note 2] , Gov. SU-25 1% [note 2]

2. Rebel HD Squad 15%, Rebel HD Vehicle Patrol 15%, Rebel HD Mechanised Infantry 10%, Militia HD Squad 10%, Militia Mobile HD Squad 10%, Civilian Mob 10% [note 1] )

Rebel DsHK 4%, Mortar positions 3% Rebel ZU-23-2 5%, Reb. BMP 2%, Reb. BRDM PK/DsHK 3%, Reb. T-55 2%, Reb. UAZ PK/DsHK 6%, Reb Ural

3. Start at the farmland area Bf36. Zinaba would be ideal but the swamps and jungle would make moving vehicles around a bit fiddly I expect.

Start at a well established base like with v1.01. DsHKs and ZU-23-2's will be the backbone of the Rebel forces, making the Western jungles a safe haven from air attack, so there should be plenty of both, plus some well-positioned mortars covering the roads to the base.

4. Note 2 . The enemy gets virtual artillery in the form of SU-25s which generate over Tatu and perform CAS in areas where East have been spotted. They stay for 5 minutes before flying back to Tatu and disappearing, unless shot down first. The Rebels can defeat this threat in 2 ways - (i) by building up plenty of ZU-23-2s and (ii) by destroying gov. Urals and Mi8s. For every Ural or Mi8 destroyed, the Government have to wait longer before another SU-25 can be generated. This is the equivalent of attacking the enemy's ammo and fuel supply lines.

5. Definetely patrolling own turf, with vehicles. Say an Ural generates with BMP/UAZ escorts at Ixtlan, with cycling waypoints at the OakaOasis, the main airport and Kimbe. Every time the Ural completes the waypoint cycle, the vehicles are refuelled and the the wait for an SU-25 stike decreases.

Also, the government would occasionally move tanks and mechanised infantry towards Rebel bases, (Scout teams inserted by Hind would also rule!) but most incursions west of the Kimbe/OakaOasis line would be done on foot as in v1.01.

6. Note 1 . Plenty of civilian mobs, maybe some of the new animals from Colonial Wars, nothing else. The civvies would generate at cities and villages, and in towns East of the Kimbe/OakaOasis line (ie. Gov controlled), they would attack Rebel forces until the area is cleared of Gov. forces and a Rebel Base set up. They would then attack Gov. forces as long as the area was held [note 3].

I find the random vehicles in 1.01 a bit distracting as your men are always calling out "unknown vehicle at 2.o'clock" - I usually turn the random stuff off but miss the civvies!

7. You need to build reinforcement points just like in 1.01 killing enemies and holding territory [note 3]. Because the TRF have no choppers, and the journey by Ural from the main base may be too long, I would suggest that the reinforcements arrive from the nearest secured position (ie. in 1.01 terms, reinforcements called for LZ Foxtrot would generate at LZ Echo and come by truck - if armour or mechanized infantry were requested then the vehicle would just generate at Echo and drive to Foxtrot). This is a little unrealistic but better than having them just appear - it would also mean having to think in terms of supply lines. The alternative would be to have them arrive by "captured" Mi8 (ie. generate offshore as if coming from a Rebel-held Tonali).

Static weapons like the all-important ZU-23-2 would also have to generate from an arriving Ural, so the player can't  cheat by putting powerful statics in the middle of a firefight.

8. Note 3 Rebel bases would be the equivalent of LZs in 1.01. To make up for the TRF's lack of air power and heavy armour, I think these should be really heavily armed when they generate - with 1 manned mortar, 2 manned DsHKs and one manned ZU-23-2. Once an area is cleared of Gov. forces and there are a few Rebel troops in the area, it should be possible to generate a base, regardless of any rock-throwing civilians still targeting you. Once the base is generated then the civvies stop targeting you and would instead target Gov. forces (this might be tricky - if so just have random civvies, with separate rock throwing mobs being part of both side's forces that have to be put down before an area is secured).

9. The 1.01 fire support system works fine. For the TRF it should simulate nothing heavier than mortar fire - used little and often. CoC UA support would be ideal, but the AI can't use this fully yet, so probably best to stick with the 1.01 system.

10. Points from kills/held territory.

11. Spectating definitely, setting patrol waypoints via the group radio menu, plus switch with leader.

12. BAS Tonal-Tango pack, patched.  Plus Colonial Wars' chickens and mules to go with the random civvies biggrin_o.gif

===========================================

The idea for this is to have a long ground war. The Government's Hinds, SU-25s and T-55s will flatten you if you come out into the desert too early. The winning strategy would be to:

1. secure some deep-jungle territory and an air defense system

2. build up some more territory under cover of the Jungle and gun emplacements, staying well South and West of the Balimo-Kimbe and Atene crossings.

3. start establishing choke-points to wipe out Government incursions eg. at Balimo, Atene crossing and the Saidor-OakaOasis road. Use the points gained to build up a fleet of UAZ's, light armour and artillery points.

4. Use foot scouts to establish Gov. supply routes, then make hit-and-run raids on the columns with the UAZs, RPGs, APCs and artillery.

5. Store the reinforcement points while you weaken the Gov's capacity for airstrikes, then it will become possible to start building desert bases (though Hinds and Armour are always a danger out there). From there, use the reinforcements to build armour.

6. Start moving to take the Main Airbase & Ixtlan (victory) or Tatu (victory).

Epic!  biggrin_o.gif   biggrin_o.gif  biggrin_o.gif

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My dream unscripted war. A stripped-down "addons-lite" version, and contrary to cornhelium. No "extraneous extras" like civies. They just take up system resources doing none too much for my ideal gaming experience. Every frame per second counts towards filling up as many enemies as possible on the map without considerable slowdown. I'm more interested in things that add directly to making the combat portion of the experience fun as opposed to pretty visuals or ambient aesthetics. So options like CAS and other little gameplay oriented things are always cool. tounge_o.gif ... just not adding fifty unkajillion bushes. Might I note that the ai can see through them anyhow. So it just makes your life harder. Not so realistic either.

However I don't suppose making the portion concerning the repsawning opposing forces/reinforcements/support assets could be made easily definable by the user. I looked at it once before and it looked a bit tricky.

Bah. I'm going to give this thing one more shot. I'm dying for some infantry oriented take-no prisoners combat.

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I think it would be a better idea to concentrate on killing all the bugs and making the mission run smoothly, rather than starting on whole new versions of it.

See the previous page for a list of bugs I've run into. I'm once again stuck because of some bug with the reinforcement choppers (they never show and the group I requested is added to the casualty total).

Such a great idea, so problematic sad_o.gif

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I'm once again stuck because of some bug with the reinforcement choppers (they never show and the group I requested is added to the casualty total).

Is the way for the chopper "clear"? rock.gif

once you get the reinforcement message switch to command view and change to the new group, so you can view what "happens" tounge_o.gif

if they never show you got a real bug crazy_o.gif

Regards,

quiet_man

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I can't help but ask if you are making this work on distance and / radar activation.

What I mean is the Enemy will only do something or even EXIST if

A) they are going to attack your position

B) you team is approaching their direction (can be done with a marker or gamelogic and make it move where the AI are, then check distance with any nearest west unit and if they are within 500metres or less SPAWN the AI and engage.

C) AI camps are existing but not the AI themselves, they should only be there when someone is approaching to engage.

Basicly what I;m saying is you can trim down allot of active units simply by using scripts that simulate ai positions and will only spawn the AI units when absolutely NEEDED.

This method I use in MP missions all the time. Sure it may take a bit of tweaking to get it right in this dynamic mission but it will cut down the lag lots, im sure your doing some of this already but you should try and make it a wide spread thing,.

Sounds like you spawn the enemy all over island and tell them to do stuff even when not engaged etc, then you create more units as backup after the first ones die.

With the method I suggested you can pretty much run the entire mission without any enemy ai present untill needed, EXCEPT the commanding group sections or however you choose to do it.

Also you should make a automated (but configureable) AI support system, like to backup engaged units, and also to supply units with ammo, this can be done automaticaly and atm sounds like your getting the player to do all this which is mighty time consuming and frustrating.

So a few more automated and configureable systems in place and I think you will have a winner for sure. You need to make it so the player is more focused on were to engage and howto engage the enemy insted of supply Little Joe with a M16 clip smile_o.gif

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lol dug up by someone who IMs me and says he hasnt played it. drastic, drastic changes have been made... trust me I got the lag understood and measured, and in the new version, which will be released 'when its done' now. i repeat, it will be released, i just dont see time anywhere now. Just trust that what I finally release in the coming months will be worth the wait, and unlike anything you've seen before.

I posted a no-lag script ive added into the recent version of the mission (much too sloppy to release right now of course) here. it would be possible, and relatively simple, for someone to add this into version 1.01, put the mission on the newer vietnam islands, and release updated versions for me, i dont have the time, and i wouldnt be able to make myself go back to the old mission.

i do promise i will continue to work only on things that you will eventually see, and continue to mod only flashpoint until flashpoint 2. so are people pissed at me yet, or has everyone forgotten and stopped caring

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Yo TYS!

Great to hear you're still working on it. IMO Unscripted War 1.01 is still the best fun you can have alone with a computer (apart from d/ling porn of course tounge_o.gif ).

Cheers,

Cornhelium

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Agreed.

Didn't read all the latest posts, but are you going to iron out the bug where you can't change leaders, or where when you swtich to the group leader of another group, but the group leader has been killed you get placed under 2's command? These are frequent bugs, it would be lovely to have them fixed.

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i do promise i will continue to work only on things that you will eventually see, and continue to mod only flashpoint until flashpoint 2. so are people pissed at me yet, or has everyone forgotten and stopped caring

I hope to see the new version of unscripted war, it's great fun.

I think I found a problem with the latest ofp version and the respawning of units in single player. After the second incarnation of soldiers of a group has died, ofp starts to set the group ID to "grpNull" and you can't add anymore units to the group.

Even worse, if you add a third incarnation of units to the group before ofp sets the ID to "grpNull", the units are automaticly moved to a newly created group id.

All variables holding the original group ID become useless! crazy_o.gif

I fear the way unscripted war handles units by groups will no longer work.

the only way I found to keep groups is to:

1. make sure there is always one unit alive

2. put all units into an array and check the group ID continously

have you found a better way to handle groups?

quiet_man

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I really loved the concept of the unscripted war.

How easy would this be to port to a different island?

I'd like to see an unscripted war type thing with stock units.

I know I'm nagging. I know I've said it way too many times already.

Is this an open project? If not. I think it should be.

Imagine all the interesting unscripted war variants we'd see.

Anyhow. It's good to see that you're still supporting it, even if casually.

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