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Major Fubar

Ofp2 software protection

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Just had a thought about OFP2 - since so many people disliked the FADE copy protection with OFP1, would you be annoyed if FADE was used again for OFP2, or do you think it would be fine?

If you wouldn't like to see FADE, what other copy protection do you think would work? What games have you seen with a good copy protection that wasn't as invasive or confusing as FADE?

[edit: this is NOT a warez discussion - please dont discuss methods for getting around FADE or copy protection in OFP or any other game, thanks]

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Imo. all "client side" protections like safedisc or fade are totally useless, they arent 100% reliable so there will be legimate buyers who will suffer from them (so many people have had "safedisc incompatibe" cdrom drives for example), and from the warez versions they are all removed so they dont bother people who copy the game.

CD-Key checks are quite good way, where the checking is done on server side, preferably on a "central server" like in half-life. Thats impossible to crack if done right.

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Speaking of usless client side programs, remember punkbuster? tounge_o.gif

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Oh sure, bring out VBS type copy protection. tounge_o.gif j/k

On a more serious note, I think safedisk has it's advantages and definately gets a few more buyers instead of non paying gamers. It's somewhat of a problem though taking a longer time starting the game and using up the CDROM drives. Not so great if you want to make backup CD's either. And then there are incompatibility issues.

FADE, I don't see a problem with FADE for anyone who purchases the game.

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Imo. all "client side" protections like safedisc or fade are totally useless, they arent 100% reliable so there will be legimate buyers who will suffer from them (so many people have had "safedisc incompatibe" cdrom drives for example), and from the warez versions they are all removed so they dont bother people who copy the game.

CD-Key checks are quite good way, where the checking is done on server side, preferably on a "central server" like in half-life. Thats impossible to crack if done right.

that doesnt stop hundreds, maybe thousands of keys being stolen and used, which has the effect of you not being able to play while the person who has stolen your key plays happily

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[FADE, I don't see a problem with FADE for anyone who purchases the game.]

The biggest problem with FADE was that it wasn't really explained properly to consumers, so that many, many people would think that various bugs they had in the game were FADE...just do a quick search on topic title "fade" and see how many matches you get at the forums...

I feel this whole thing of copy protection that degrades gameplay is ridiculous. If the game can detect an illegal copy, it should just refuse to work outright...IMHO

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I think fade was a good protection method, but seriously they all are useless. Dont use safedisk else they have to pay securom for license. I say go for fade as it will stop all the petty copyright infringers, while the hardcore copiers would crack it whatever its the copy protection. The centralized server is a very good idea, and IMHO it really work well for games like Half life and Ravenshield

my 2 cents

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But the centralized server thing will only work in multiplayer. Someone could just player SP and never be bothered by it. I think they should go with FADE, but just make it give a specific error message or something, because like Fubar said, there are a lot of "is this fade?" questions on the forum

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I have to disagree about safedisk being useless, I don't want to get into the detials too much but it works nicely in conjunction with patches. Every patch that uses the latest safedisk protection can make people realize it's time to pay up for the game rather than wait for the hackers (or crackers) to catch up.

I know it is a hassle for paying customers but I'm not willing to ignore the obvious benefits. However I don't think BIS are (or at least were not) big fans of safedisk even if it probably helped with sales more than FADE. biggrin_o.gif Well anyway, just think, the better the game is protected the cheaper it may be to buy sometime... ah, maybe.

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I would say this:

Be smart. Let the warez scene work for you.

I had my first experience with OFP on a friends computer, where it hade faded to a point where it was almost unplayable. I got so annoyed at it that I considered it worthless and did not try it again, until I happened to get an opportunity to play a working version (and had notheing else to do) some months later. I thought "Wow" and went out and bought it immediately.

If I try a new game and it misbehaves as badly as a faded OFP, my conclusion is that it is just plan crap and I will not hunt down fixes or explanations on the internet.

My point is that you do not want the game to look bad. If you are going to make some protection, make it playable for a while, then just kill it (and make sure you tell the user what is happening). Make it look good and appetizing, and you most likely gained something by that illegal copy. That way, you could actually use the warez scene the way it is supposed to work, as cheap marketing and try-before-you-buy.

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I have to disagree about safedisk being useless, I don't want to get into the detials too much but it works nicely in conjunction with patches.  Every patch that uses the latest safedisk protection can make people realize it's time to pay up for the game rather than wait for the hackers (or crackers) to catch up.  

I know it is a hassle for paying customers but I'm not willing to ignore the obvious benefits.  However I don't think BIS are (or at least were not) big fans of safedisk even if it probably helped with sales more than FADE.  biggrin_o.gif   Well anyway, just think, the better the game is protected the cheaper it may be to buy sometime... ah, maybe.

bn880, as you just say it is just a matter of time untill crackers crack the patches. Why even make an effort of putting a security option that will cost bis more money. I think they should just use fade, but super fade in a way that the game would really be unplayable

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2 options for BIS:

1: No key's so BIS gonna make a program that checks your cd number like you are buyer 1000 hen the program sends to the main server: nr1000 is installed so no 1 could use that cd except the owner who buyed it wink_o.gif

2: have a advancer FADE system so thats blocking the whole game if its iligal biggrin_o.gif

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I have to disagree about safedisk being useless, I don't want to get into the detials too much but it works nicely in conjunction with patches. Every patch that uses the latest safedisk protection can make people realize it's time to pay up for the game rather than wait for the hackers (or crackers) to catch up.

I know it is a hassle for paying customers but I'm not willing to ignore the obvious benefits. However I don't think BIS are (or at least were not) big fans of safedisk even if it probably helped with sales more than FADE. biggrin_o.gif Well anyway, just think, the better the game is protected the cheaper it may be to buy sometime... ah, maybe.

bn880, as you just say it is just a matter of time untill crackers crack the patches. Why even make an effort of putting a security option that will cost bis more money. I think they should just use fade, but super fade in a way that the game would really be unplayable

And that matter of time is what gets people to purchase the game if they like it. That's what I'm saying. smile_o.gif And why should people who use stolen copies of the game get the newest patches that BIS works on as soon as they come out.

Don't know how you understand FADE to work, but basically there should be some protection to prevent the easiest type of copying and distribution of the CD's.

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I never and ever had any problem with FADE

I think that it should just like not even start the game, like when you press play, FADE systems see if the copy is legal or not and if it's not, just don't start the game

you could put a message error or not, if the guy don't know what's happening, well to bad so sad for him he just had go and buy the game at a store

if you actully did buy the game and it does that to you, well maybe you did something wrong somewhere or FADE is mistaking another running program or something I don't know

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The problem with making FADE absolutely obvious is it speeds the circumvention of the protection exponentially. FADE that slowly and discretely creeps in makes it much harder for hackers/crackers to bypass. Furthermore BIS should not inform anyone of the exact effects of FADE as it is the best way they can make life difficult for the warez community. wink_o.gif

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Uhm....Dont mind me but i think the crackers already crakced OFP almost sucsesfull just check out a popular warez site and you will find it ( evry game you will find there ) so i dont think any security will help against those people sad_o.gif maybe if we had the security like in the Pentagon or CIA then ofp will never been cracked and only fair people can play OFP2....do bat just a dream sad_o.gif

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i like the idea what Valvesoft did with Half Life..

everytime you play online... your serial key will be checked by the main WON server before u can play on an internet dedicated server. smile_o.gif

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Uhm....Dont mind me but i think the crackers already crakced OFP almost sucsesfull just check out a popular warez site and you will find it ( evry game you will find there )

And how does that contradict anything anyone said here? smile_o.gif ...

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The problem with making FADE absolutely obvious is it speeds the circumvention of the protection exponentially.  FADE that slowly and discretely creeps in makes  it much harder for hackers/crackers to bypass.  Furthermore BIS should not inform anyone of the exact effects of FADE as it is the best way they can make life difficult for the warez community.  wink_o.gif

The problem then is that you have legitmate owners scartching their head in confusion every time they have a bug with their game, wondering if it's FADE, or a hardware/software problem.

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That is why FADE has to be guaranteed not to activate on people who use legal copies of the game. And as far as I know, Suma will always tell anyone using a legal version they do not have FADE. So this will not be an issue as long as BIS can inform in their manual and other means that normal users will not be affected.

End of story if you ask me. biggrin_o.gif I don't know how many people with legal copies of the game had such serious doubts about FADE, I reckon it's less than a hundred out of all the sales. rock.gif

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Actually, if people don't like Safedisk which FADE can not replace at the moment, and they don't like FADE which is discrete, then bring it on: hardware keys and USB key cards. smile_o.gif I don't mind since OFP2 will be worth the trouble for me. tounge_o.gif I would mind having to connect to a centralized server to play over a LAN though, that's unacceptable in terms of mission testing and so on.

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I would mind having to connect to a centralized server to play over a LAN though, that's unacceptable in terms of mission testing and so on.

I think you don't know much about that

I play Raven Shield and the check for the serial is quickly done so you don't have to wait like 5 minutes to get in the game

and over a LAN, well it should not be needed cause sometimes you'll play a LAN and won't have access to the internet, but this should not be a prob, FADE would get into action anyway

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Argh, I said I would mind if that's how it was done in OFP2, not how it is in R6. That's my reason for saying it, LAN != Internet...

How do you propose FADE to activate if Safedisk is not used in single player mode? CRC check?

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I think the best method would be safedisk in conjunction with centralized server, so that it checks ur cd key on the internet only when u go playing mp.

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