Xm8 to replace m16?

[ran 0]

$33ker @ July 02 2003,19:14)]

I don't think the U.S. making a multi-billion dollar French weapons contract would go over too well right now.

Sodexho is already serving hot meals to the US troops , i don't see why GIAT couldn't try something too

Aha! Ran's pimping his beloved FAMAS again?    

always

i'm paid for that .... j/k

[Sneaky 0]

Just felt I had to point out that the G36K the Norwegian "KJK" (called "Coastal Rangers of the Norwegian Special Forces" in english I believe) use, looks pretty much like the XM8, just without a integrated scope (just a long rail) and the 3 forward rails are a bit shorter (like the G36C)

A small bunch of images: KJK

[PFC_Mike 2]

I'm sure that the XM8 will be a comfortable and effective weapon, but the 5.56mm round just isn't suited to the kind of fighting the US does now. Most irregular forces don't wear body armor, and neither do the "regular" forces that the US has fought recently.

Does the G36 have jamming problems on the scale of the M16? How about the M14?

[USSoldier11B 0]

Quote[/b] ]Does the G36 have jamming problems on the scale of the M16? How about the M14?

From field evaluations I have read the G36 performs almost flawlessly. (Hey, it's an HK) I saw a video of a test on a USP pistol. The dropped it in the mud and stopped on it with the action open, loaded a mag and it still fired with no jams. I've owned an HK USP 40 for a year and have put about 1000 rounds through it and it has only jammed once and that was because a bottle of nyquil spilled on my mags and gummed them up. The G36 is actually a radical departure from classic HK design. Most HK rifles and SMG's have a roller locking bolts and trademark octagonally rifled barrels. The G36 is very similar to AR series weapons. With a positively gas operated blowback short stroke rotating bolt and conventional barrel rifling. I have played with an SL8-1, the civilian equivalent, and I really like the large control levels and magazine release.

As for the Garand style bolt system (M-1,M-14,M1A) it operates reliably except when it gets very dirty, also it is one of the safest systems ever devised. I found the FN-FAL to be a much more reliable weapon in grimy conditions due to it's adjustable gas system. You can adjust the gas for different loads and conditions of filth. However, the FAL has oppressive recoil and only fair iron sights and is somewhat troublesome until you get the gas adjusted just so.

[Peanut 0]

The KSK uses the G36k with the upper-rail of the G36c, so parts are changeable. They also changed the optics and use EOTechs. There's even a RIS for the G36.

And you should know that the M16 used by the army are made by FN for quite some time now. But as it seems that they are owned by Browning now it's again an american product. Ah, the power of globalisation ;)

[-TU--33ker 0]

comparison between G36K and G36C:

[Commander-598 0]

As for the Garand style bolt system (M-1,M-14,M1A) it operates reliably except when it gets very dirty, also it is one of the safest systems ever devised.

Personally, I would put emphasis on "very".

[USSoldier11B 0]

Quote[/b] ]And you should know that the M16 used by the army are made by FN for quite some time now.

Yes, I know this, but it's not exclusive. The Army buy's M-16's/ M-4's from several factories still, including FN, Colt, Armalite, Rock River Arms, just to name a few. FN/Browning also produces all M240 and M249 variants, and of course the old Ma Deuce.

[madmedic 0]

Not in my experience, and most troops I know will agree with me. The internals are not exact, it's not advised to put a M4 bolt in an M-16 of vice versa. There are some minute differences supposedly, that or my armorer is full of crap.

Internally identical (except for fire control parts...which are interchangeable)

Differences in reliability could stem from the shorter gas system of the M4 length rifles...at any rate, the increased number of stoppages that were experienced, were likely very marginal.

Quote[/b] ]

Thank you Sen. Diane Feinstein. ::middle finger::

A big DITTO !! on that one from me...and add in Lautenburg, Schumer, Brady, and Clinton. (to name a few)

[CrunchyFrog 0]

Found this:

Source: http://www.armytimes.com/story.php?f=0-ARMYPAPER-2002475.php

Quote[/b] ]Your next rifle

’05 is target date for debut of replacement to the M16

By Matthew Cox

Times staff writer

The Army has a new rifle in its sights, one that could start replacing the venerable M16 in just two years.

The staff at Project Manager Soldier Weapons is overseeing the final designs of the XM8 — a highly versatile 5.56mm assault rifle intended to give soldiers a lighter, more reliable alternative to the battle-tested M16A2 and M16A4 rifles and M4 carbine.

Army weapons developers plan to have a prototype by the end of the summer and to begin testing in the fall.

The XM8 is a new approach in the Army’s ongoing effort to perfect an over-and-under style weapon, known as the XM29, that fires special air-bursting projectiles and standard 5.56mm ammunition.

The Army successfully tested a working prototype of XM29 in 1999 — known then as the Objective Individual Combat Weapon. But four years later, the $50 million program has yet to produce anything new.

The Infantry Center at Fort Benning, Ga., wanted the weapon to weigh 14 pounds and be ready for soldiers by 2008. But the 18-pound weapon still is too heavy and bulky to meet those requirements.

But instead of scrapping the XM29, the Army decided on a new strategy — perfect each of XM29’s components separately so soldiers can take advantage of new technology sooner. The parts then could be brought back together when lighter materials become available.

The components include a carbine that can fire 5.56mm rounds; a launcher that fires air-burst ammunition; the air-burst ammunition itself; and the fire-control system.

“The way we were doing it was, we were building a full system and we were going to field that and then do a second system and make it better and lighter and field that and then make a third version and field that, and I didn’t see that as a path to success,†said Lt. Col. Matthew Clarke, product manager for Product Manager Individual Weapons, who took over the XM29 program in November.

“When I get each little system working the way I want, I am going to start putting them back together as a complete system.â€

The new acquisition strategy includes developing a stand-alone air-burst weapon, known as the XM25, for possible fielding in four years.

But the XM8 has first priority. In October, the Army modified the existing contract with Alliant Techsystems and Heckler & Koch Inc. to design the new lightweight assault rifle.

And Congress directed the Secretary of the Army’s office in its fiscal 2003 appropriations report last October to complete a cost-and-benefits analysis of the XM8 as possibly “worthy of fielding on an expedited basis.†That report was completed in early June and is on its way back to both the House and Senate appropriations committees.

Officials from the Infantry Center are intrigued by the new approach to XM29.

“It does appear very logical. The XM29 was always designed to be a [modular] weapon,†said Jim Stone, deputy for the Infantry Center’s Directorate for Combat Developments.

While the M16 family, which includes the M4, “has been a very good weapon,†Stone pointed out that it’s already 40 years old.

“While we are maintaining and improving the M4, we have to look ahead,†he said. “For us to do nothing and say ‘Gee, the M4 is doing great,’ that would be irresponsible.â€

True family of weapons

The XM8, weapons experts maintain, is a true family of weapons with different barrel lengths designed to address all the needs of an infantry squad.

While exact measurements are not available, the baseline model is expected to be lighter than the M4 carbine and no larger in size.

There’s also a sharpshooter model equipped with a longer barrel for increased range.

The need for sharpshooter weapons at the squad level became evident in Afghanistan. Elements of the 82nd Airborne Division requested M1As, a version of the old 7.62mm M14, for its long-range capability.

The squad auto-rifle version of the XM8 features a heavier barrel and high-capacity magazines.

All of the versions have a telescoping butt stock except for the commando variant, which is planned to have a shorter barrel for tight compartments such as inside armored vehicles and helicopter cockpits.

The XM8’s barrels — of varrying length — can be changed at the arms room to meet mission needs, Clarke said.

“We are trying to do the family of XM8, so I don’t have to buy four or five different weapons for the squad. I buy one weapon,†said Col. Michael J. Smith, project manager for PM Soldier Weapons.

The XM8 also is supposed to have a multipurpose optic that includes a red dot reticle, a backup sight that requires no power, an infrared pointer, an infrared illuminator and a visible pointer.

The existing M4 requires lots of add-ons to perform these tasks. Combining them reduces the weight of the weapon and the complexity to the soldier.

The multipurpose optic also will make training easier since there is only one optic to zero to the weapon instead of multiple devices. “You take the gun out of the box, you zero the optic and you’re done,†Clarke said.

For special-operations forces, the weapon can be converted to fire 7.62-by-39mm, the same round as the AK47.

No bursts, for now

Soldiers testing the first 200 XM8s this fall will not be able to fire a three-round burst like they can on M16s and M4s. The rifles will have only a safe and a full-automatic setting.

The Army switched from full-auto to three-round burst in the 1980s when the service decided most soldiers did not fire effectively in the full-auto mode.

But weapons experts now say a soldier using three-round bursts is no more effective than one well-trained in the use of full-automatic fire, Clarke said.

Without that option, Clarke said, designers could leave out the special governor to create the three-round burst, making a simpler design that also would be more reliable.

The XM8 accessories will include a 40mm grenade launcher to replace the aging M203.

The new launcher still is a single-shot, breech-loader, but it will swing out to the side to allow for specialized rounds that require longer shell casings.

But the 40mm option may not last too long. Under separate development in the plan for the XM29 is the XM25 — a stand-alone weapon that features 25mm air-burst technology.

The XM25, weapons experts maintain, would weigh less than 12 pounds with the fire-control system and would be chambered for a more powerful 25mm round.

The switch from 20mm to 25mm rounds means the new weapon will fire ammunition common to the XM307, a crew-served weapon that fires a long-range 25mm air-burst round.

If all goes well, it would be ready for testing in 2005.

While supportive of the idea, the Infantry Center does not want a return to a weapon similar to the Vietnam-era M79 grenade launcher, a single-shot weapon that left the grenadier with a limited capability to fight at close range, Stone said.

Like the XM29 prototype, the XM25 would feature a magazine that holds at least five rounds. In addition, there could be canister-style 25mm ammo, giving the weapon a sawed-off shotgun effect.

“We want to introduce a heck of a lot more capability than the M79,†Smith said. “I’ll give [them] a five-round magazine, a three-round magazine, a 10-round magazine … and give them the capability of different kinds of rounds and let them get into the close fight, not just the long-distance fight.â€

Lethal air bursts

The Army began working with air-burst technology in 1994. It first was tested in the 1999 prototype for the Objective Individual Combat Weapon.

It relies on a laser range finder and a ballistic computer that calculates the range to a target with a push of a button and transfers the data to the electronic fuse built into the 20mm round.

When fired, the air-burst round has a range of 500 meters and is designed to explode directly above a target, raining shrapnel down on an enemy crouched behind cover.

Such a weapon, experts say, will give combat soldiers the ability to defeat enemy targets behind cover with greater precision than ever before.

“We do know that bursting ammo, especially when you can control the burst, is going to be an incredible increase to the lethality of a squad,†Stone said.

As it stands, the Army is a long way from taking advantage of that technology, because the XM29 program does not meet the Infantry Center’s 14-pound requirement.

“The technology is just not there,†said Clarke, explaining that the materials needed to lighten the weapon without losing effectiveness simply are not available. “We searched for lighter-weight materials. They don’t give you the same capability as homegrown steel does, and that is the bottom line.â€

Since the internal parts of the XM8 and XM25 already exist, the challenge has been creating the exterior shell to appeal to American tastes.

“[Heckler & Koch], the Europeans, they love blocky style weapons. Americans are all about curves,†Clarke said, describing how they brought in engineers from Porsche and Audi to come up with more streamlined designs.

If the Army does adopt the XM8, as many as 900,000 could be fielded through 2021, Clark said. The XM25 would be fielded in far fewer numbers beginning in 2007, depending on the needs of the Infantry Center, the proponent for the Army’s small-arms requirements.

The Army still plans to field about 22,000 XM29s — enough for four per nine-man infantry squad — beginning in 2012.

“When it is all said and done, my contact with the Infantry Center is still to provide them with an XM29,†Clarke said.

“What I am doing is offering up mature technology capabilities. The proof will be in the pudding when we pop some systems out there and let people use them — that is the plan.â€

NEWS PAPER SCAN

[CrunchyFrog 0]

Also found this...

http://peosoldier.army.mil/gallery/LW_XM29_XM8.html

First pic is a XM29 (OICW), but most of the pics are with the XM8

[-TU--33ker 0]

interresting article.

and the pictures are also very nice. I've never seen the XM8 in real life.

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

The G36 is also better than the M16 because the operating system eliminates gas and powder fouling being blown back into the receiver (this has been the biggest problem with the M16-series), making the rifle more reliable.

[ACES_KEVIN 0]

I like this badboy here, looking now for a bit more info on it, ill follow up when i find it, looks like a G36xM60 Hyrbid... Hehe

XM307 HMG

Lates

Kev

[ACES_KEVIN 0]

The sniper rifle of the family,

Semi Auto LRSW

XM107

Lates

Kev

[CrunchyFrog 0]

Whats the difference between the M82Ax and the XM107?

[Scorpio 0]

Does the G36-C have a built-in scope?

[-TU--33ker 0]

Does the G36-C have a built-in scope?

looks like it comes with iron sights only. But it has a big rail which allows you to mount everything you want on it.

[Tex -USMC- 0]

$33ker @ July 23 2003,18:55)]

Does the G36-C have a built-in scope?

looks like it comes with iron sights only. But it has a big rail which allows you to mount everything you want on it.

Yeah, it has a Weaver rail mount, which will let you use the right tool for the right job.

[Scorpio 0]

Gah, damn... seems I'll have to buy a scope for it then.

[-TU--33ker 0]

you want to buy one??

an airsoft gun?

[Scorpio 0]

Yes, infact I've already ordered it...

[Grey Fox 0]

Get this:

Its one of EoTech's 500 Series. I did an unofficial survey at the Lightfighter Tactical forum and it beat the Aimpoint by a few votes.