Common addon pack

[toadeater 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (DeadMeatXM2 @ 15 May 2003,08:16)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">ARGH!!!!

Why oh why are so many people SO hooked on the idea of HUGE addon packs?

They suck... Not only do you need to maintain them every day practically, as otherwise they will get out of date VERY quickly. They are huge, as you suggested 200meg... which is gonna kill the 56k'ers, and they will still just be the same addons stuffed into one big pbo or zip...

What you really want to do is standardise the cpp.

Set levels for the damage caused by standard ammo (such as NATO 5.56, 7.62, 12.7 and other calibres, and Eastern-Bloc 7.62, 12.7 and other calibres.)

Set levels for armour, for both soldiers, tanks, aircraft etc, that way no-ones accurate M1A2 becomes a moving fortress...

What we don't need is an "uber pbo" or zip, as that would just be pointless, what we DO need is some form of standardisation. Tie this in with Addons at Ease, and we've got the perfect package.

If someone gets together a list of definative values for ammo and armour, then we can get this show rolling, until then, this isnt going anywhere...

Get the reference written, get BIS and everyones endorsement, and then we can start making universal addons, that will be the same on all the servers and the same on everyones PC's.

The way I see it, untill AaE is sorted, and until someone gets this reference done, this project is stuck in the past.<span id='postcolor'>

That's why only finished, tested addons should be included. The pack itself can be updated once in a while though. Maybe someone will feel like writing a .pbo patcher?

My suggestion is keep the time periods seperate which will hopefully keep the size of the pack down. You shouldn't be forced into getting Vietnam and WW2 addons, I personally don't have any desire to use them at all.

Addon dependencies would also have to be considered. Some addons need other addons to work, like infantry using weapon packs. So a unit was included that used something that wasn't included it should be updated to work with the pack's standards.

Maybe we should just pick an addon to be the "officially sanctioned" version for each type of object. So that there's 1 AK replacement only, or one entire Russian weapons pack, etc. This way people would at least stop duplicating each other's work and mission makers could know what they should be using.

[Lolsav 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (toadeater @ 17 May 2003,12:57)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><span id='postcolor'>

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">That's why only finished, tested addons should be included. The pack itself can be updated once in a while though. Maybe someone will feel like writing a .pbo patcher?<span id='postcolor'>

? did u read the previous posts? We are not talking about a .pbo file, its a about a collection of pbos

Note: You can patch .pbo with the patcher made by clickteam.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">My suggestion is keep the time periods seperate which will hopefully keep the size of the pack down. You shouldn't be forced into getting Vietnam and WW2 addons, I personally don't have any desire to use them at all.<span id='postcolor'>

Read the previous posts!!! We been talking in modules. In each module theres a theme.

[benu 1]

Shrike: what i meant is that there are other admins then you who work on this too. You don't have to check anything, "someone" will check it, prepare the update and the players can d/l it from another server until you put the finished addon update onto the hp of your server. If some admins put more time into this than others (which will be the case cause not all of the work can be done in parallel) it may even be that some admins will have to do next to nothing.

Nierop: Excel is a no-go for me. I can send you a textfile formatted in any way you want.

All: if you really want to keep the discussion open then don't state things as facts that are (or should be) open to discussion, state them as experiences, suggestions or wishes. I for example would like to talk about frequent updates, using e.g. the bas chinook (or better NOT using it, cause it doesn't work with linux servers atm) for another 6 month would be shit if there would be a working update in a few weeks and there were many cool mp missions for it.

[nierop 0]

No, my idea of the thing is that seperate "themed" packs will be made. Then each server can choose what set of packs its uses. Good example are the NAM pack or WWII addons. Not all servers will be running those, but a standardized pack for those who want it should be formulated.

What map makers should keep in mind that using small parts of packs used not by all servers (lets say the CoC mines form NAM pack2) will restrict playability of their map on servers that do not use that particular "theme" pack. Well, thats just the way it is...

@benu

text file is good enough for me . plz send to nierop@bio.vu.nl

[joltan 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (nierop @ 17 May 2003,18:19)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">What map makers should keep in mind that using small parts of packs used not by all servers (lets say the CoC mines form NAM pack2) will restrict playability of their map on servers that do not use that particular "theme" pack. Well, thats just the way it is...<span id='postcolor'>

The CoC mines are available seperately from 'nam - at SES we included them in our basic addons pack, so other (non-'nam) missions could use them aswell - same might be considered for other generic addons.

[nierop 0]

Yes, those things have to be agreed upon, but this sounds like a good idea.

BTW, this was just an example.

[KTottE 0]

*jumps into the discussion*

There are certain items of practicality that you need to consider.

Lets say you make a pack, which includes the new BAS_X addon (could be anything, as long as it's a completely new addon, such as the *H-53 chopper(s)) among other things. It gets shipped (shape and form of shipment not important) and gets put on all the servers.

One hour later, there's a huge bug discovered, and the BAS team work like crazy to fix the bug, and in only a few hours past release-date, they have version 1.1 out (have happened before, and I love BAS for being so quick to respond to those problems).

What happens then?

Is the pack updated, or the pack-addon site?

Or do the server admins have to find the file themselves and upgrade 'manually'?

And also, conflicting versions is an issue.

If this becomes reality, the addonmakers should be in on it and make two versions of their addons. Stand-alone and pack-versions.

So we'd get BAS_X.pbo and BAS_xP.pbo.

That way, I could get the manual update, and any other things for the pack, and it would not conflict with the pack itself.

Also, I think we need an auto-update system.

Someone hosts an XML-file with the addon-names and their version (would have to figure out an update system for that XML page too) and also X number of mirrors where to download it from.

Some crafty person would then write TheMegaPowerfulSuperCoolAuto-updater.exe (could make a *nix version as well for all the Linux servers) which would connect to this site and XML page, read it, and check the addon versions against its own XML page. If the version of BAS_X.pbo does not match, it connects and downloads it.

Also, it should be possible to specify which modules to download (a new entry in the XML, <module>BAS</module>) so you don't get all the extras you don't want.

Now, if it's possible the program should unpack any packed addons as well.

Any takers on this?

I would do it but I've only started learning C++

Also, one further note is to have the pack addons in a mod-folder.

That way it's easier to keep track of them (nothing but pack-addons in that folder) and you don't have to worry about overwriting other addons not part of the track (thus partly negating the need for a separate naming convention).

Of course, there could be a starter-kit for everyone, shipped on a CD.

It's -not- hard to get your stuff onto a PC magazine's CD, just send an e-mail to whomever is in charge of the CD production and he'll jump right on it (That's what the swedish PC Gamer guy did when I asked if the Operation White Night mod for OFP could be put on the CD)

I think many of the people here subscribe to some PC game magazine, I know I subscribe to PC Gamer, and that means no extra cost to get the CD. And for those who don't, I think ~$7 or what it may cost is a small price to pay.

That would include as much as possible.

Standard/Base module, BAS, Nam, Winter, Desert, WW2 a.s.o, just to get your money's worth.

Also, it would include the auto-updater thingy.

It's not a viable solution to have a manual update system, unless it's only temporary until an auto-system comes into place.

<ul>

Pros with manual:

[*]None that I can think of, other than you get complete control over what is downloaded onto your machine.

Cons with manual:

[*]Time consuming (the download time is the same, but you have to go out and look for the addons, then download them, then install them)

[*]Likelyhood of getting the wrong version is larger than with an automatic system.

[*]Time consuming

Pros with automatic:

[*]It's automatic

[*]You don't have to spend a lot of time looking for the addons then downloading them. Even if they might be on the same page, you need to pick out the ones interesting to you.

[*]You can update the pack more often. (Instead of looking for a new huge update every 3-6 months the server-admin and the clients would once a week/once a month fire up the program and check for updates on the addons they use)

[*]Less time spent overseeing the addons from the pack-creators/managers side.

Cons with automatic:

[*]None that spring to mind right away Other than that there might be a bug/issue somewhere. An entry in the main XML file that is wrong, causing the auto-updater to download the wrong file. A bug in the auto-updater (it happens, we all know it) or other such problems, all which are easily rectified.

So, let's get cracking

[nierop 0]

Hi KTottE, thnx for your thinking along with this discussion.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">One hour later, there's a huge bug discovered, and the BAS team work like crazy to fix the bug, and in only a few hours past release-date, they have version 1.1 out (have happened before, and I love BAS for being so quick to respond to those problems).

What happens then?<span id='postcolor'>

Well, the way I see this is that this wont be much of a likely problem as, something discussed and agreed upon, the addon pack WILL NOT be updated real-time with new versions. As put forward by different peeps this (i) is required for standarization between servers (admins cant spend their lives only with updating), (ii) is more convenient to players (also dont have to udate every day), and (iii) will avoid those exact problems you state here.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Also, I think we need an auto-update system.

<span id='postcolor'>

As real-time updating is not likely to be applied this would be very fancy, but not essential. However, I don't want to discourage anyone that would like to take up this task. In the end, players with little computer skills (believe me, they exist) will benefit from such a tool.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Also, one further note is to have the pack addons in a mod-folder.<span id='postcolor'>

Good idea, I was thinking in that direction too. I fact, the SES-addon pack already has such a MOD-folder construction, and this is an very elegant way to go about...

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Of course, there could be a starter-kit for everyone, shipped on a CD

<span id='postcolor'>

Well, that requires someone offering his job at the least to burn and ship CD's... Not feasible, I think.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I think many of the people here subscribe to some PC game magazine<span id='postcolor'>

Have you any support for this notion? I, on the other hand, CAN support the notion that everyone wanting to play MP games has an internet-connection. Downloading, therefore, seems the logical choise for the addon pack.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Cons with manual:

Likelyhood of getting the wrong version is larger than with an automatic system<span id='postcolor'>

See above, the convention addon-pack seeks standardization. Thats why we do not seek the way of "manual" updating you have in mind. Without the use of an autoupdater, we will release addon-pack updates at set time points (interval not agreed upon yet) that wil be installed MANUALLY, if you whish. You see, also manual can result in standardization

[KTottE 0]

Okay, the easy points first.

We can do a simple show of hands to see how many regularly subscribe to a PC game magazine (doesn't have to be the same, just one that comes with a CD) here. I know most of the swedish OFP players I know subscribe to the swedish PC Gamer.

And, buying a magazine for $7 to get several hundred megabytes worth of addons (the basic pack would include as many modules as possible) in an easy-to-install package, is a minor cost which I think the majority of people are willing to afford. And, I'm not saying "Only CD", of course everything will be available for download as well, for those with faster connections (Remember, many people are still in the 512kbit range, including me, and that means hours not minutes for several hundred megabytes).

And when did I say that someone was to burn CDs and ship them?

I said we should try and get them onto PC game magazine's CDs.

Just give the guy in charge of the CD on each magazine a holler, ask if we could put it on there, and they do all the work for us.

Also, regarding simplicity.

What is the use of a major addon pack that is not updated more often than every 3-6 months?

We are talking about both updates on existing addons (BAS_X 1.0 to 1.1) and new addons (BAS_Y and BAS_Z).

Do you have any idea how many good addons are released in a 3-6 month timeframe?

That means that when those 3-6 months are up, the players and server admins would have to download tens if not hundreds of megabytes just to keep their pack up to date. (Of course, depending on how many modules you want to get)

And believe you me, the size of the pack, with all the modules, would be rather large.

The I44 demo is ~50mb, the BAS addons (Littlebirds, Kiowas, MH-47 and Delta/Rangers) is ~25mb, Kegetys winter pack is also in the 20-30mb range, nampack is ~50mb as well. Right now, with an uncomplete WW2 module, the BAS module, a Nampack module and the Winter module, we have 150mb worth of addons just about.

To this we add a Desert module, the basic module (though I don't know what this should contain), more addons to the WW2 module to make it complete, more to the winter module, more to the nampack module, maybe a CoC module, which would probably end up in the 25mb range as well.

Now, most people would probably not get all the modules, but you have to calculate for the possibility that someone gets all the modules available, and that is quite a few megabytes.

If you are willing to take this as far as it needs to go, I will help out in any way that I can, but if you want to leave it at bundle stuff up every 3-6 months and ship it as a "pack" for people to choke on, I am not participating.

What is the use of a pack that is only updated every 3-6 months?

Can't you see that a system which keeps both players and servers up to date with the latest and greatest addons is a better option?

Combine this with Addons At Ease, I.E if we could convince BIS to get us a server to do this on (*wink* *wink* guys ) we could have a place for the auto-updater to recieve the files from, and we ensure not only that the servers and players are syncronized with addons, but that the addons hold high quality and conform to certain standards.

If you want a package thing for your clan to use, it's okay with the more static form that is only updated every 3-6 months, but if you want a proper, even usable system for all of the OFP community you have to make it easy to use (automated as much as possible that is), up to date (Most people want to play with the latest version of the addon) and available for everyone.

[Guest DKM-jaguar]

Right, i have just got bopred with reading this. I know it seems like a good IDEA, but that is exactly what it is and forever will be unless some of you do it then see if it is popular. I wish you all the best of luck, but as with all these things, someone will try to modify the idea and cause an end to the whole thing. I can imagine someone making a pack with very stupid choices of addons in it, for instance a pack with the coast gaurd bell helicopter with a lego man addon and a DKM tunguska. The addons dont function at all together, but someone will do it. They will create an addon pack with just a few addons that suite their tastes [for that week] and then no one will download it becuase of thier tastes in addons not meeting the maker's. And even if the packs are very popular, there will be people who will cause conflict by not following the right rules or whatever,and the whole thing will break down.

And it saddens me to say, but really I think this is coming too late. There are not enough players either MP or single palyer to make this as succesful as you want it to be, and it seems a little late in the day to be making addon packs [of other peoples work] for a game that has a sequel coming soon, where every one will just jump to straight away. The only people who wont be playing that are the same people who still have OFP 1.46 and didnt get the resistance version [until the price goes down becuase no one wants it anymore].

I think these packs have the oppurtunity to be very succesfull, but only with correct managment, being carefull not to cause conflict [becuase some one wil want to cause trouble] BUT I also think they are only gonig to acheive what you want them too on a newer game. If you dont agree, I have no problem with it, but i am not going to look at this topic anymore so dont bother posting your outrage. [not that i flamed anyone at all during this entire topic, i thank you very much]

Reading some of the comments made before i could veiw them before this post:

If an update does need to be made, then what about all those discs that were made BEFORE the upgrade with the pack on them? What will you do with them? I wouldnt like to pay ANYTHING that i know there is a FREE update for that i cant have becuase it is only available in a 200MB download.

plus, the logisitcs of this CD idea... Well, just dont go thinking that you with a CDR drive can get any where near the numbers you need for proper distribution. Oh, but you will need a factory or some such installation to acheive this..where will you get the money from? You havent sold any CD's before [as you dont have the equipment] so where is that going to come from? i dont think the average palyer will be like "yeah, alright, i'll give you Å2000 to get this scheme started [becuase there is not enough players to make this finacially viable, so if you had a 2million or so players you could charge Å1 each.. but there just isnt anywhere near that, who would be WILLING to pay] ...oh yeah, i forget there are those people who say "i own a CD making, writing, and packaging factory and my freind runs FEDEX so i can have them sent anywhere"..becuase your just lying, and these are the same people that say they are in the army and such like, even though they are 12 years old.

And to finish my words: You cannot call it 'bickering' becuase you are presented with an opposite [but no less important] veiw to yours. That just seems you are trying to make the people who have an opinion look stupid or childish...

[benu 1]

Jaguar: I too think the cd idea is crap. I know of not a single magazine that gets shipped into ALL countries of the world where ofp is played. And for people with modem or limited bandwidth there are already services on the internet where you send a list of links, they d/l the stuff, burn it on cd and send it to you with snail mail. Or you could ask high-bandwidth buddies.

But i think that as the addon packs get coordinated by admins with servers using addons and mission makers using addons the packs SHOULD become good. These are people with experience in this matter. So i don't think that there will be "bad" addon packs. If it is too late or not, only time can tell. But there are servers out there playing missions with lots of addons and they have enough players. I see it on my server: some player comes in, we say that the next mission will need addons and some leave, others ask where to get them and come back. They play the mission, they like it, they come back to the server and d/l ALL the addons to be able to play all missions there. And those people get regular players most of the time. The ofp online community has been small from the very start, i remember my first online games... well, on any of the few servers you would meet the same players, everyone knew everyone else. But i think the players that are still here are likely to stay until ofp2. And as the addons may be compatible to ofp2 (Suma hinted at something like this) the addon packs will already be finished and tested when ofp2 comes...

[KTottE 0]

Why is nobody reading what I type?

Let's to a list out of what I said:

<ul>

[*] The CD will be distributed by recognized PC game magazines, not by a private person

[*] It will not be a single magazine, it will be several

[*] It will contain a 'starter-kit', I.E all the modules to date (all depending on when the CD is shipped) which will provide everyone with a fast way of getting up and running.

[*] The CD will be a supplement to the downloads, for people with slow modems, people who don't have flatrate, people who already subscribe to the magazines or people who are just downright lazy

I know that PC Gamer is distributed in the UK and in Sweden, don't know if it is in the US too, but I seem to remember something to that effect.

There are numerous PC gaming magazines that ships with CDs, and will accept this arrangement, and between them there are very few places in the world which can't get the CD.

And those who can't, can get the download instead.

Maybe this system won't get up and running 100% before OFP 2 is released, but why should we scrap it?

BIS has hinted that original OFP addons will be compatible with OFP2, or will be easily converted into OFP2 format.

And also, why not implement the system for OFP2 as well?

We won't have hundreds of addons to start with, but that's all the easier. We can start by getting a good system, then we add the addons as they are released, instead of starting with a gazillion addons and try to fit them all to the system.

[nierop 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">And it saddens me to say, but really I think this is coming too late.<span id='postcolor'>

Jaguar, plz read things carefully, it still is not clear to you... (i start wondering whether you have ever played with addons on big servers).

Every addon-server ALREADY HAS an addon pack. This discussion is about getting a STANDARDIZED addon-pack for all these servers. If you keep opposing to addon-packs you are trying to defeat history. Sounds like Don Quichot.....

@CD on magazine covers

This will not work. For me that is period...

[Major Fubar 0]

There really needs to be some sort of vote on what addons are to be included.

You can't please everyone, so at least try to please a majority...

[KTottE 0]

Okay, you're obviously not interested in doing the same thing I am.

I bid thee adieu, and I hope everything goes well with your idea.

I will however further my concept, and see if there is interest in creating something to that effect for OFP2.

[nierop 0]

For starters I am going to compare all addon packs of the participating servers. From this a proposal will be made.

I propose:

1. Addons used by all servers will be included (e.g., BAS addons). The general use of such addons are in fact already a measure of quality and popularity.

2. Other addons will be discussed together with addon server representatives. Factors like quality or good use oin missions of, apparently,not so well known addons will be discussed.

3. A final proposal will be made.

4. Public will have opportunity to give feedback. Understandably, the whish of EVERY individual player cannot and will not be satisfied after this stage. I hope people understand...

PS. I still would like to receive a list of addons that are in the addon packs of participating servers for comparison (nierop@bio.vu.nl). These lists will not be revealed to the public yet in order to get discussion between the right people at the right time. Only a final proposal made by the addon server owners will be made public.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">There really needs to be some sort of vote on what addons are to be included.<span id='postcolor'>

Major fubar, you feel like organizing such a poll? You got an opinion thread running already...

[Guest DKM-jaguar]

I think you miss the point: NO magazine is going accept this pack, why should they? you know why? they need money. PLUS you need to get the CD's made yourselves. Like i said, you dont have either of these. ALSO the kind of people who need the CD instead of downloading are not likely to have a fast enough conection to play mp anyway, so that solves one of your problems. Basically, i dont think that servers will download every update for each addon, and i dont think that you can release a whole new pack just becuase of one update. It just is not going to work. Dont beleive me, prove me wrong instead of moaning at me becuase i dont agree. go on, do it.

[blackdog~ 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (DKM-jaguar @ 18 May 2003,08:56)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I think you miss the point: NO magazine is going accept this pack, why should they? you know why? they need money. PLUS you need to get the CD's made yourselves. Like i said, you dont have either of these. ALSO the kind of people who need the CD instead of downloading are not likely to have a fast enough conection to play mp anyway, so that solves one of your problems. Basically, i dont think that servers will download every update for each addon, and i dont think that you can release a whole new pack just becuase of one update. It just is not going to work. Dont beleive me, prove me wrong instead of moaning at me becuase i dont agree. go on, do it.<span id='postcolor'>

EXACTLY.

If they are to accept the offer, they are going to either turn you down or ask for a bundle of money anyway.

[dm 9]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (nierop @ 18 May 2003,13:55)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">@CD on magazine covers

This will not work. For me that is period...<span id='postcolor'>

Can you not see where I am coming from now?

You have to be incredibly short sighted, even STUPID to not realise that this is exactly the way I feel about the "uber pack" concept.

If you can't, why are you even here??

And as Ktotte quite rightly said, what if a day or 2 after release of an addon, the makers find a major bug, one that could even cause the game to fade at worst...

What are you going to do then? Stick with the addon, and have your game fade? Just for the principals of the pack system... Or update...

As I have said time and time again, a system like Ktotte, myself, Jaguar, and many other people have suggested is a categorised html or xml script, that has all the addons in "categories" similar to the "modern", "WW2", "arctic" and so on.

This way the addons can be kept up-to-date - Which whether you care or not IS a BIG issue. And people are not forced to download duplicates of addons that they may allready have...

[GoOB 0]

This idea is silly, what the big servers should do is smack up a list of what add-ons they use in their missions and maybe direct links to them. Not a pack that is released every month or so. I know that the Swedish edition of PC-Gamer accepts some user submitions to their monthly CD, but they aren't going to put a addon pack that weighs in about ca. 40mb (that is probably too small BTW) This idea is stupid but yet it is for a good purpose, but it would never work. As DeadMeat and Ktotte says what if you find a bug in the huge addon pack after release?

[KTottE 0]

I'm still not participating in this, I just want to clarify something for jaguar.

Jaguar, trust me, a PC game magazine, for instace PC Gamer, will put something on this on their CD if they feel it's good enough.

And they sort the CDs out. All they want is:

A fully functional package of whatever it is you want to put on there, good documentation of what it does and how to install it and begin to use it.

Where did you get the bonehead idea that we would have to supply the CDs ourselves?

I've talked to the guy in charge of putting together the CD for the swedish PC Gamer (I think I mentioned that earlier), about putting the OFP mod Operation White Night: The Battle for Sweden on one of their CDs once the mod was finished.

He said "We can do that, just let me know when you have something playable".

The mod isn't finished yet, and I'm not apart of it anymore, so I can't say how they will sort that out once the mod is done.

But it's not exactly hard to get your stuff onto the magazine's CD. At least not when you are dealing with PC Gamer.

And, of course, only the first release would be put on the CD, the large one, after that the upgrades would be smaller and easy to download.

And PC game magazines will not charge you for putting your stuff on their CD.

If you bring them a neat package, it's no extra work for them to put it on there.

Plus they can sell loose copies on it too, "This issue only: Supreme OFP special" or somesuch.

In all my dealings with PC Gamer before, they've been very forthcoming and they've never turned me down at all. Whether I wanted to put something on the CD, recommend things to be put on the CD (such as patches for a game a.s.o), or tip them of news within the beautiful world of games, and I think most magazines will be forthcoming as well.

[Major Fubar 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (nierop @ 18 May 2003,15:28)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Major fubar, you feel like organizing such a poll? You got an opinion thread running already...<span id='postcolor'>

Sounds like a lot of work, but I'll see what I can do...anything for a cause as worthy as a standardized addon pack!

[GoOB 0]

Ktottes system is the only one i'd be willing to put my money on. And as we both have stated PC Gamer is a fairly casual magazine, if they belive that the system will get a wide audience they will put it on their CD and probably do a special issue devoted the subject. They aren't all that hard to persuade, i tipped them about a freeware game some time ago and they thanked me for informing them about it and put it on their CD. The system would work like the Half-Life updater but with addons. With the support of BIS and them willing to accept this and incorporating a way to do it in OFP2 in conjunction with OFPEC and the rest of the community i think the automatic updater/addon getter is the way to go.

[Guest DKM-jaguar]

I agree on some points made:

Magazines are good ways of distributing CDs, but producing these CDs takes money and the postage of a magazine with a CD will be increased by whatever amount, which the magazine owners will expect to come from you. They will also want money anyway, as they are like that[ they'll say "we could put a demo disk on and get lots of money for it, so while your taking up that space we could be using for other purposes, you'll pay x amount for the fact we cant put our CD on there"] BUT providing you can find a reasonable magazine and a good way of cheaply producing these CDs AND the only money you receive is for MAKING the CDs, not making a profit then i would be all for it and i sure as hell would buy the magazine. BUT addons dont make a profit, i can understand that users of CDs will still need to pay to cover costs, but there will be too much money being demanded by third or fourth parties when you start making a profit, as addon makers will claim it as thier work and what was once a free medium of downloading adons becomes an expensive pastime.

i am not here to challenge your ideas, infact i like KTottE's ideas, i am just presenting the logisical dificulties you will encounter.

[nierop 0]

1. MP SERVER ADDON PACKS ARE ALREADY AROUND!

2. THEY FUNCTION PERFECTLY!

3. DOWNLOADING OF ADDON PACKS AS A SECTIONED DOWNLOAD WORKS ALREADY PERFECTLY!

4. ALL WE SEEK IS A STANDARDIZED ADDON PACK AGREED UPON BY A NUMBER OF SERVERS SO MAPS CAN BE EXCHANGED!

Sorry for shouting, but maybe people can SEE AND REMEMBER the background of this initiative. That the way of distribution IS NOT a problem. That we are NOT seeking an addon UBERPACK that spans the complete world of OFP (in the words of DKM-Jaguar) and of which the succes is very questionable, but just a pack common between a limited amount of participating servers. If you dont want to play on these few servers you are not forced. The update frequency is not set yet, but will be on the 2-4 month time scale. This update system is also applied already and the community functions without problems despite some accidental flawed addon versions in the ultimate case solved by patches.

Now i stop as i feel that our ideas are put on an scale of impact that is ono where near the goal of our initiative. Especially I dont want to start arguing about ways of distribution yet, as this is not one of our problems. If it is your problem, fine, but dont trouble us with it (and dont start complaining that I descriminate 56K modem users, because I do not, these peeps are perfectly capable of downloading or getting a cd from friends)

*EDIT* Uberpack were Deadmeats words not Jaguars, sorry for that.