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Petition against racism and holocaust denial

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Successful online petitions to date: 0

People in the real world likely to care: 0

But that's no reason not to try!

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Yeah I'm inclined to agree with Relic on this one.....petitioning the EU Council to make Holocaust Denial a Uni course??? crazy.gif Good luck with it.....

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yeah, bugger off.

It is History

It is taught in History

What the fuck do we need a museum for?

Where will the cash for the reform and the museum come from?

The Government

Which would you prefer, a new hospital or a museum on something that happened in another country (for most european nations) 58 years ago?

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Actually i would say that holocaust ignorance is a bigger threat than holocaust denial. The amount of people who are real and active holocaust deniers is thankfully fairly low (mostly neo-nazis...and now perhaps extremist muslims) but the amount of young people who just dont know squat about the WW2 holocaust (and other notable genocides of the last century...or perhaps any real history at all) is higher and seems to be growing.

Anyway whilst i think education on this subject is important, i think the EU would maybe do better to spend its money preventing future (-or minimising current-) holocausts.

Theres no point in condemning past holocausts whilst letting them happen RIGHT NOW largely unhindered in various parts of the world.

I have not signed the petition.

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</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (IsthatyouJohnWayne @ 30 April 2003,14:55)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Anyway whilst i think education on this subject is important, i think the EU would maybe do better to spend its money preventing future (-or minimising current-) holocausts.<span id='postcolor'>

We Europeans and especially we Germans are very well aware of our history. We honor life and freedom and another holocaust surely won`t happen in our countries.

There are other countries lately braking international relationships or international laws. Maybe those countries should spend more money in education, so they can learn from the mistakes we made in the past.

History should never be forgotten and it sure won`t be, but the current danger is always the most important one.

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</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (FallenPaladin @ 30 April 2003,09:31)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">We Europeans and especially we Germans are very well aware of our history. We honor life and freedom and another holocaust surely won`t happen in our countries.<span id='postcolor'>

hmmm.. why are antisemitic acts increasing dramatically in frequency in Europe then?

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Are they? Please give me some examples.

I think there are more organized Neonazis in the USA than in Europe. Because all Nazi-Propaganda material is forbidden here in Germany for example the Neonazis here import their material illegaly from the USA. Or from Danmark or Sweden. But most of the stuff comes from the USA, even that terrible music, they hear.

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</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (PitViper @ 30 April 2003,15:55)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (FallenPaladin @ 30 April 2003,09:31)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">We Europeans and especially we Germans are very well aware of our history. We honor life and freedom and another holocaust surely won`t happen in our countries.<span id='postcolor'>

hmmm.. why are antisemitic acts increasing dramatically in frequency in Europe then?<span id='postcolor'>

Can you back that up, or is that typical tabloid rant?

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Your best weapon against racism and holocaust denial is education. You can have petitions, protests till you are blue in the face, understanding (from education at a young age) is your weapon. smile.gif

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</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Ex-RoNiN @ 30 April 2003,10:52)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (PitViper @ 30 April 2003,15:55)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (FallenPaladin @ 30 April 2003,09:31)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">We Europeans and especially we Germans are very well aware of our history. We honor life and freedom and another holocaust surely won`t happen in our countries.<span id='postcolor'>

hmmm.. why are antisemitic acts increasing dramatically in frequency in Europe then?<span id='postcolor'>

Can you back that up, or is that typical tabloid rant?<span id='postcolor'>

http://www.lchr.org/media/2002_alerts/0827.htm

http://www.csce.gov/witness.cfm?briefing_id=217&testimony_id=281

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</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Ex-RoNiN @ 30 April 2003,17:52)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Can you back that up, or is that typical tabloid rant?<span id='postcolor'>

Talk about being uneducated! This is just from the ADL site. Don't have time now for more.

ADL Survey of Five European Countries Finds One in Five Hold Strong Anti-Semitic Sentiments

As anti-Israel Sentiment Runs High, 30% of Europeans Cling to Traditional anti-Semtic Stereotypes

ADL Addresses European Nations: Calls for Action Against Anti-Semitism

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What startled me was an incident that happened with the movie star Natalie Portman while shooting parts of Star Wars in Spain (She is an American Jew born in Israel).   She was driven to crying by a member of the Spanish crew who made several harsh antisemitic comments in her presence without realizing she was Jewish.

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Isnt that new Palestinian prime minister Mahmoud Abbas a Holocaust denier? I think he wrote a book on it back in the 80s. He said something like "only" a few hundred thousand were killed by the Nazis.

And then there's Franjo Tudjman, Croatian leader, said he agrees with a 900 000 figure on the number of Jews murdered.

And Jorg Haider, praising the SS for their work.

And almost forgot Jean Le Pen doubts of the existance of the gas chambers.

-=Die Alive=-

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HAHA

Someone signed the petition as follows:

#217.

Full Name: Adolf Hitler

City: Berlin

State/Region: Europe

Country: Germany

Age: 42

Occupation: Dictator

only 220 signed, only 5999780 to go!

-=Die Alive=-

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I guess i could write my name there but... "Your signature information will still be shared with the sponsor of this petition." wow.gif

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</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Die Alive @ 30 April 2003,18:18)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Isnt that new Palestinian prime minister Mahmoud Abbas a Holocaust denier?<span id='postcolor'>

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Mahmoud Abbas, the new PA prime minister, is the author of a book called The Other Side: The Secret Relationship Between Nazism and the Zionist Movement, in which he stated that the Nazis may actually have killed "only a few hundred thousand" Jews, not six million; that Zionist leaders "give permission to every racist in the world, led by Hitler and the Nazis, to treat Jews as they wish, so long as it guarantees immigration to Palestine. Zionism not only gave this permission but was seeking more victims in order to maintain equality with the sacrifices of other nations during the war"; and that "the interest of the Zionist movement is to inflate this figure [from several hundred thousand to 6 million] so that their gains will be greater."<span id='postcolor'>

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Israel is using tanks to fight against some small kids with rocks..

Alot of people in europe do not agree with the Israel way to handle to situation.

When a newspaper makes a survey about anti semitic thoughts then I'm sure that the current situation in Isreal makes it look like anti semitic thoughts are common when infact it's nothing more but dissagreement with the Israels palestine policy.

The day Israel and Palestine can manage to make peace then I'm sure that the so called anti-semitic ratings would drop like a rock.

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</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (theavonlady @ 30 April 2003,11:37)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Die Alive @ 30 April 2003,18:18)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Isnt that new Palestinian prime minister Mahmoud Abbas a Holocaust denier?<span id='postcolor'>

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Mahmoud Abbas, the new PA prime minister, is the author of a book called The Other Side: The Secret Relationship Between Nazism and the Zionist Movement, in which he stated that the Nazis may actually have killed "only a few hundred thousand" Jews, not six million; that Zionist leaders "give permission to every racist in the world, led by Hitler and the Nazis, to treat Jews as they wish, so long as it guarantees immigration to Palestine. Zionism not only gave this permission but was seeking more victims in order to maintain equality with the sacrifices of other nations during the war"; and that "the interest of the Zionist movement is to inflate this figure [from several hundred thousand to 6 million] so that their gains will be greater."<span id='postcolor'><span id='postcolor'>

HA I knew it! I love listening to community talk radio while I sleep, I learn shit without even knowing it!

-=Die Alive=-

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FallenPaladin-"We Europeans and especially we Germans are very well aware of our history. We honor life and freedom and another holocaust surely won`t happen in our countries."

So holocausts can only happen in europe?

Ever heard of Africa? More holocausts than i wish to count.

Cambodia? Or do only european deaths matter?

How about Yugoslavia?

FallenPaladin-"There are other countries lately braking international relationships or international laws. Maybe those countries should spend more money in education, so they can learn from the mistakes we made in the past."

If thats a veiled reference to the USA then i think there are much more important countries to look at in relation to

to preventing current holocausts (although the USA would be vital in helping to bring pressure to bear). In the congo some estimates put the death toll at OVER 4 MILLION (much of it ethnic conflict).

4 mutha****ing MILLION.

But hey ,they live in africa. Its far away, it doesnt involve

the global balance of power , europe or america so who gives a shit?

People suck. Sometimes i hate people. All of them. The bastards.

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</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Llauma @ 30 April 2003,18:43)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Israel is using tanks to fight against some small kids with rocks..<span id='postcolor'>

This is crap.

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As a christian believer, i will hope to say brother to every people, but not, i cant.

Racism in general is disgusting , whatever who is the victim and who is the racist.

The only fact that racism exist is untolerable for me , it has no right to exist in world that call itself civilised .

To fight the antisemitism , anti-white, anti-black anti-arabic anti-blue anti-green etc racisms ..... are very good causes and i will be always admirative for people that lost their lives in this kind of just fight.

It is a duty for every decent people in the world to support antiracism combat and to remember horror of the past, near past or far away past .

Too much people dont care of history , that is why our world is never in peace : because those people never get the experience of past error and are totally ignorant.

Now , an online petition is nothing for me , i prefer real life statements, and i know that in Europe where i live , there are a lot of antiracism associations that really do something "concrete" , not online petition that lead in no way.

For the antisemetic racism that was the subject of that thread , it is right that it seems there is a kind of increase of antisemetic actions.

But the nature of the racist aggression have changed, when for a certain period of time it was racist/nazi politics groups that acted, now it seems that it is islamists religious groups that acts .

The nature have changed, but facts remain the same : racism

I hope our "country leaders" will stop those untolerable and disgusting racism again , with efficiency this time, not like in our semi recent past in Europe.

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this thread sucks. Almost as useless as that International ANSWER group (Act Now to Stop War and End Racism).

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</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Tex [uSMC] @ 30 April 2003,18:59)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">this thread sucks.<span id='postcolor'>

How synical, coming from an anti-Oklahomian! tounge.gif

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</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Die Alive @ 30 April 2003,17:18)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">And then there's Franjo Tudjman, Croatian leader, said he agrees with a 900 000 figure on the number of Jews murdered.<span id='postcolor'>

He's dead, he died in 1999.

Actually his controversial statements on the issue was not on the holocaust in general but on the people murdered during WW2 in concentration camps in Nazi-Croatia.

If I remember the numbers correctly he claimed that "only" 20,000 people were killed in the concentration camp Jasenovac. The official number set by communist Yugoslavia was 200,000. The Serbs claimed 2,000,000 killed. As an interesting sidenote, this proclamation of Tudjman's was during Yugoslavia and he got sentenced to a couple of years in prison because of that.

The current more realistic estimates put the number between 56,000 and 97,000 ( source)

Tudjman made another infamous statement where he said that he is glad that his wife is neither Jewish nor Serbian. He later defended that statement saying that what he meant was how the Jewish people were persecuted through history and how Serbs were unpopular during the war in ex-Yugoslavia.  confused.gif

Despite those statements, I don't think one can accuse Tudjman of being a Nazi - he faught them in the partisans and was a dedicated communist for 40 years. His both brothers were killed by the Nazi.

On the other hand there are a plenty of other things one can contempt Tudjman for. His campaigns and ambitions in Bosnia for instance...  confused.gif

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