Ai thread

[SnypaUK 0]

Frankly i only want to see the units use cover without being in stealth mode enemys should use urban cover and an infantry squad shouldnt move so perfectly its like theyre doing drill or something when they run forward and drop to the floor they should be a bit less in line and more spread out.

come to it i also want to see suppressing fire and an option in the menu to start pepperpotting torwards an enemy

[Kuja- 0]

I'd like to see AI intelligently use support available (tanks/helos) and advance, whilst using tanks for cover, kind of like in Full Metal Jacket where they're advancing behind the M60s.

[Johan_D 0]

Just brainstorming here:

And just some simple things like, when on safe, automatically salute to an officer for 5 seconds or so.

A bus should stop at a bus station if a person is in very close range automatically.

Civillians could have classes their own like:

-farmer, this type can look for a tractor and do his work

-police, looks only for overspeeding, and when in danger make close civilians follow him away from the shooting

- civilians: wander aroudn by them selves. Go to nearby church, then to nearby pub and so on. (goal is to place them and let loose)

- driver: in truck virtually deliver boxes (may disappear), cars: drive around to pubs/restaurants etc

The suppressive fire behavior of the AI under fire should be linked to the skill level. If it is high they might try and run for it, and on lower levels they hust stay at covered position.

The time of laying down could simply be a counter between the time they have been shot at.

(and the current aiming skill is a bit too high!, should be coupled to the skill slider. Currently it is coupled to detection/view level. Some can shoot good, some dont..)

Squads: point your number 2  to a certain point, and in for example safe mode, he takes automatically 2 others with him. In danger mode maybe more. (SP)

Auto spawn to number two if you are shot. (optional)

An AT soldier without AT should automatically pick up an enemy AT weapon if possible.

Support: should have a follow mode, to follow in a distance the troops.

Headquarters mode: to place the player in  headquarters mode, with the map. Able to direct squads, view camera-alike the action, and send in support, refreshments and airstrikes.

Gives OFP an strategic play option with custiom missions.

From the squad player the same but inverted, able to call in airstrikes, support and so . (if placed on map. Example: on an island you place 4 tanks. You give them callsign Alpha or designate something, and wander around. If you want you could simply without scripting, ask them to come to your position, and secure the area,and or send them back later. Maybe you need to place an headquarters unit and building to do that as a requirement. Same for airstrikes and artillery and troops.)

Moving Animals.. dont give us killing wolfs/bears

Plane AI: if possible depending on their mode, let them land theirselves to the place they took off, be more objective precise, and shoot on soldiers too.

Btw, same for seamen.

And generaly speaking; I like too have the AI see what I see. No more supervisuals pls.. If I cant see a soldier hinding in the bushes, nor the enemy should see it.

No more all super shooters, just normal guys like you and me!

Thanks for reading.. some good things in it?

Johan

[SnypaUK 0]

without flicking through all these pages i started a new ai thread here

[The Frenchman 0]

Soldiers should do a lot more random things. Remember that smoking animation that came with the demo? The soldier would light a cigerette if left off guard for a while. They should also say random things too.

[Kuja- 0]

I don't think it has been mentioned yet, but a critical element to the AI, imo, for OFP2 is the transfer of information between individual units, platoons, divisions, or whatever.

As far as I'm aware, there are basically no links between separate groups, which is clearly unrealistic on the modern battlefield. A platoon of men shouldn't be able to conduct a noisy firefight 200m away from another group without the other group realising/being radioed, told what's going on and acting appropriately.

Bases, armored platoons, CAS etc should transfer information between each other so they actually fight cohesively, support each other and you can't just pick people off at random until you've managed to defeat 12 T80s, 2 bases and 100 infantry

[Snypa UK 0]

completely right kuja some kind of IVIS esque system would be nice.

onto other stuff the ai should use grenade launchers. set it so if theres more than 3 enemys in a space of less than 10 meters within 100 meters then he sohuld fire a grenade. while im on the grenade issue smoke grenades should have an effect on enemys

[Munk 0]

I'd not only like to see smoke grenades working but drawing enemy fire aswell. They are normally used to provide cover while you retreat or advance and would naturally draw fire from the enemy.

The stealing uniforms sounds cool if its used in the right situation. Your stuck behind enemy lines and need to escape so you kick the crap out of a civilian and nick his clothes. Of course, if your still running around with a visable weapon it should make no difference. Same goes for if you have a conceled weapon and you draw down on someone.

[edc 0]

Quote[/b] ]As far as I'm aware, there are basically no links between separate groups, which is clearly unrealistic on the modern battlefield. A platoon of men shouldn't be able to conduct a noisy firefight 200m away from another group without the other group realising/being radioed, told what's going on and acting appropriately.

Yeah, that'd be nice, though if there's not a person w/ a radio in the group (or if they're dead), it'd be really cool if they couldn't share information.

[Drakkhen 0]

The radio should hold the "com-linked" information allowing the holder or the one next to him to send/receive intel/reco data or orders. The radio destroyed, the coms should be restricted to voice range since there are very few units who really are radio linked in common troops.

Thus, the radio could be taken from a dead body by another teammate and requires the leader to be constantly close to the radio holder to transmit orders to his platoon.

Yet, in game-play terms, it's an enormous constraint.

When the realism approaches fun absence... the border is hard to find.

[.T. ANIMAL 0]

i would like to see soldiers hidding behind box er walls like in Freedom Fighters that could be realy nice. I realy do hate when soldiers just lay down all the time and just stay there i would be better if they could duck behind walls and other objects like Freedom Fighters.

[bisfan 0]

I agreee. I also noticed that sometimes when ai is the leader of the group and some of the units go down quickly, they fall back and then they are trying to make flanking manouver. Instead of making one, all they do is fall back and then they go back at enemy from the very direction from which they were forcedr to fall back. I think that this is pretty naive and should definetly be fixed.

[bonko the sane 2]

The thing thats most time consuming for me while playing SP is ordering the AI to pick up ammo,either from crates or dead bodies,I would really like the AI to pick up a gun from a dead soldier or from a nearby ammo crate/vehicle automaticly when it runs out of ammo...of course,if this was in the middle of a firefight it would do so crawling,and not the way it does nowadays (running like a headless chicken and getting killed in the process)

[Snypa UK 0]

When Ai targets a tank it shouldnt go running after it either it should fire a rocket at the tank from within the firebase or maybe run a bit in front and kneel down but be more subtle

[-style- 0]

I'd like to see all of the AI behavior go into a script file (or two) that we can play with.  (formations, tactics, emotions, fire rates, take-cover-rates, movement/fire patterns, spray in general direction of enemy, run certain way when under fire, etc).

Basically, somehow let us edit the AI as much as if you released the source code..

This way we could customize AI behavior for individual addons, units, or special soldiers.

Be cool to be able to make the 'Afghani Militia' soldiers act realistically (cant shoot as accurately as their weapons would allow, terrible tactics, general stupidity), while the 'Army Ranger' units behave in a believable manner (advanced tactics, high precision, ...).

AI organization:

Something similar to a real life setup might help.

Each soldier would have his own AI,

The fireteam leader would have his AI, plus handle the fireteam's general tactics (fireteam's formation, for example).

Then, the squad leader would have his own AI, and direct all of the fireteams (fireteam A: flank right, B: covering fire, C: man that pill box.  general formation of fireteams).

and so on, up the chain of command...

Eventually, the theater commander would have a RTS type setup, and direct whole units around the island.

Leader AI skill level (not rank) would determine how well the leader directs the groups under his command.

Maybe have two skill attributes for each soldier: leadership/tactics and general shooting/fighting.

(You could add in piloting/driving skill too, minimum levels needed for certain vehicles/aircraft, so that a fighter pilot could drive anything, while the average soldier would be limited to cars and trucks.  

'Reaction time' could be determined by this as well: a novice tank driver may not be able to man the gunner position as efficiently/quickly as a elite tank commander)

I think this would easily scale for MOD's, you wouldn't need to mess around with scripts and stuff like the CoC guys are doing. (no offense)

Plus, each AI level wouldn't need to exert direct control over each soldier under it's command.  The Squad leader might not bother assigning the fireteam's formation.  Platoon leader definately wouldn't.

The AI would function better this way, the fireteam would know what formation it should use because those soldiers are right there, they see units and obstacles the platoon leader doesn't.

This would help at the squad level (any level) as well, especially if the fireteams are scattered or spread over a area (field,street,whatever) where differing formations between teams would help.

This would help improve large battles, the squads would coordinate their efforts under a leading officer.  It would get a lot tougher for players as well, because the enemies would really be able to flank and maneuver effectively.

If the squad leader was hit, the squad would lose their tactics/coordination until someone takes the place of leader (insert confusion AI and stuff here).  

Because the other soldiers might not have 'leadership/tactics skill' at as high a level as the previous leader, this would give real bonuses to players who target officers, without resorting to cheesy scripts.

Player's would have it easier in some ways too.  You would be able to leave the small-scale micromanaging, like fireteam formations, individual target assignments, and that stuff to your fireteam leaders, unless you want to force a command.

This would scale well going up to command of multiple squads.

Mapping would be easier too.  

With a AI system like this, the defense of a base(s) would be coordinated without needing special scripts.  The officer in charge at the base could request help from nearby bases automatically.

The AI could coordinate patrols + scouting on their own.

This would be very helpful when a base has lost people to a enemy attack, squads would be reformed by the AI, and new patrol routes setup, without a mess of scripts to handle every possible damage situation.

(yes, mapper can make his own patrols and stuff, and choose whether he wants the AI to override his scripts.  Personally, I would rather let the AI handle most of this stuff, and just give general 'suggestions' through scripts/mapping.)

I don't know if this analogy helps, but comparing the officer's tasks to a RTS might make sense.  At a small scale, squad leaders would need to coordinate their fireteam's efforts, while the theater commander would be coordinating the efforts of all forces on the island. The coordination AI could function just like some RTS games as far as movement/attack orders are concerned.

Disclaimer:

Of course, this all depends on the current structure used for the AI code, etc etc.

This might be better in some ways and worse in others, or not applicable at all. Just a quick idea I came up with.

[Baron Hurlothrumbo IIX 0]

Good idea, but

Quote[/b] ]'Army Ranger' units behave in a believable manner (advanced tactics, high precision, ...).

I think a few different interpretations of 'believable' would arise ;)

[Baphomet 0]

I'm assuming this has been addressed previously, quite possibly even in this thread. However I apologise for not reading a 115 reply thread in it's entirety, I've got about half an hour before I go to work. I did however want to speak about something that has really been bothering me as of late. I'm not sure why it is now but it's the one true gripe I have about ofp.

In ofp2 above all other small little tweaks or aesthetic improvements. I want to -not- get shot through a bush that -I- can't see through by an enemy that can. It's so horribly fucking annoying to dash by a dense group of bushes and have bullets fly out of them as if the the bush somehow picked up a gun and started shooting at me. I've had the same thing happen to me with tanks too. It's just retarded. I really hope this is something that's looked into during the development of the game.

[TheManWithManyIdeas 0]

I read a post from someone before saying that squad member and also opposition troops must have a more independant decision making tree.

By this i mean, soldiers can have characteristics as they react to a situation in different ways. Discipline could be a factor here.

Also, a more minor thing could be that perhaps the tactical decisions of an enemy sqaus should be more cunning and try to mislead the player.

[SnypaUK 0]

actually that bush thing is pretty realistic if i saw a man run into a bush i would blast away at it

[Baron Hurlothrumbo IIX 0]

You might blast away at it but IRL you would not fire one round through it straight into the enemies head, as the unmodified AI do in OFP. Or start shooting from one side of a bush at someone approaching from the other side that is completely screened by the bush, as the AI also do occasionally.

[SnypaUK 0]

Ive never noticed that problem meself in OFP but i agree baron

[Guest]

This may set off some flames but...

I want to see the AI take cover like the Ghost Recon AI.

I feel that the AI in that game was spectacular in this regard.

How I think it can be implemented...

1: Erase the ridiculous weapon switching pauses: When opening fire on a "SAFE" enemy, it is too easy to peg them as they freeze. It should be a smooth motion, coupled with running (maybe even running without taking out the weapon). The first thing any AI should do when under fire is try and find cover, the more frantically, the better. (will also add challenge in maintaining unit cohesion).

2: Cover fire should work: The AI should be afraid of bullets. I do appreciate the flanking behaviour of the AI, but they don't really respond to covering fire (which is why the machinegun is so crippled)

3: Use real cover: The OFP world is filled with fantastic cover, why do they always drop to the ground in an open field?

These effects shouldn't be too difficult to implement, and would add alot more atmosphere to the game (specifically the chaos and confusion)

[Badassdom 0]

troops should be able "talk" with sound that can be heard not just in the squad

[Badassdom 0]

troops should be able "talk" with sound that can be heard not just in the squad and change in battle to a more frantic sound

this would give a lot more atmosfere to the game

[SnypaUK 0]

The AI when coming under fire should get sprint and get down behind any cover within about 10 meters if there is no cover they should just drop down to the floor and start firing.

AI should try and use suppressing fire to try and flank the player this would force you to use more fire and maneuver tactics.

If more than three bullets hit within 3 metres of the AI they should seek cover or if they are in it they should get right behind it. Their accuracy should also diminish significantly to simulate nerves, you could simulate this with the player by making the gun shake around a lot. This would also make things more tactical for snipers