Some more military mishap videos

[Tovarish 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (FSPilot @ April 23 2003,01:04)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Wow, that looked pretty violent.  Any word on what caused that crash?<span id='postcolor'>

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">A $42 million stealth fighter lost part of a wing and crashed in a huge fireball in a residential neighborhood because military technicians failed to install four fasteners, Air Force officials said Friday.

The oversight, which left only one fastener in place, occurred last January while the F-117A was undergoing repairs at Holloman Air Force Base, N.M., said Col. John Beard, head of the five-member investigative panel.

Two subsequent maintenance checks failed to detect the missing fasteners.

In July 1996, the area of the plane where the wings attach was inspected by three technicians who climbed onto the wing, stuck their heads in a small hole, and checked with a flashlight held in their mouths and a mirror. But none could say all the fasteners were attached, Beard said.

About a year later, a pilot noticed that the left wing was about 2 inches higher than normal and had too much "flex." An inspection of the wing found it normal.

There was no entry in maintenance records that the pilot had noticed a problem or that any corrective action was taken, Beard said.

<span id='postcolor'>

[Mister Frag 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (FSPilot @ April 22 2003,16:04)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Wow, that looked pretty violent.  Any word on what caused that crash?<span id='postcolor'>

The Nighthawk crash was caused by a missing pin in the tail assembly.

[Mister Frag 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Warin @ April 22 2003,15:33)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">That Airbus crash is pretty amusing when you consider that there wasnt anyone in the A/C.  You could almost hear the amusement in the narrators voice as he described it being the first test of a pilotless system.

Poor Air France. <span id='postcolor'>

I had no luck accessing that video, but if it is the Airbus crash I have in mind, then it DID crash with a bunch of civilians on board for a free plane ride.

http://www.airdisaster.com/investigations/af296/af296.shtml

[FSPilot 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Tovarish @ April 23 2003,06:12)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><span id='postcolor'>

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Maybe it's that the visor on the current Russian helmet retracts into the helmet itself? I've seem some US helmets that are like that also though.<span id='postcolor'>

I think it's the oxygen mask. It's just a solid chunk of plastic shaped like a funnel almost, doesn't look efficient, or comfortable. And looking at those videos they don't even meet. One time the guys nose was sticking out above the mask!

I've never worn one, but the Navy's rubber mask looks much more comfortable.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">A $42 million stealth fighter lost part of a wing and crashed in a huge fireball in a residential neighborhood because military technicians failed to install four fasteners, Air Force officials said Friday.

The oversight, which left only one fastener in place, occurred last January while the F-117A was undergoing repairs at Holloman Air Force Base, N.M., said Col. John Beard, head of the five-member investigative panel.

Two subsequent maintenance checks failed to detect the missing fasteners.

In July 1996, the area of the plane where the wings attach was inspected by three technicians who climbed onto the wing, stuck their heads in a small hole, and checked with a flashlight held in their mouths and a mirror. But none could say all the fasteners were attached, Beard said.

About a year later, a pilot noticed that the left wing was about 2 inches higher than normal and had too much "flex." An inspection of the wing found it normal.

There was no entry in maintenance records that the pilot had noticed a problem or that any corrective action was taken, Beard said.

<span id='postcolor'><span id='postcolor'>

So I AM right to tell my instructor "hey that strut looks a little low..."

[Tovarish 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (FSPilot @ April 23 2003,01:19)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"> And looking at those videos they don't even meet.  One time the guys nose was sticking out above the mask! <span id='postcolor'>

I know the part of the video you're talking about, I'm pretty sure the pilot didn't have the mask fastened on completely. Probably just had it close to his face for communications purposes.

[Akira 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (FSPilot @ April 23 2003,01:04)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Wow, that looked pretty violent.  Any word on what caused that crash?<span id='postcolor'>

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Andy Kunkowski said he was watching the show from a small boat near the shoreline and immediately went to the scene of the crash and spoke to the pilot.

"He said he was truly sorry about what had happened and said he tried to pull it out," Kunkowski said. "He wanted to land this thing in the water, but couldn't."

"He said everything was fine until he started to make an incline, and at that point he realized the rear wasn't doing what it was supposed to," Kunkowski said. <span id='postcolor'>

Anyway I heard the cause was overstress coupled with the fact the wing was missing a few bolts thanks to Mr. Mechanic.

Also I heard that Airbus and the French Government (which heavily subsidizes Airbus) covered up the software glitches in their new "state of the art" flying system. For example in the case of the A320, the computer was in control and for some reason (after it reached a certain low altitude) started the landing cycle. The pilot, noticing that was wrong, tried to regain control of the plane, but was stymied by the insistant computer. The pilot was then blamed and railroaded witht he manslaughter charges.

What I heard at least...

[FSPilot 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Akira @ April 23 2003,06:29)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Also I heard that Airbus and the French Government (which heavily subsidizes Airbus) covered up the software glitches in their new "state of the art" flying system. For example in the case of the A320, the computer was in control and for some reason (after it reached a certain low altitude) started the landing cycle. The pilot, noticing that was wrong, tried to regain control of the plane, but was stymied by the insistant computer. The pilot was then blamed and railroaded witht he manslaughter charges.

What I heard at least...<span id='postcolor'>

Thats horrible! I hope it's just a rumor.

[Badgerboy 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (FSPilot @ April 23 2003,00:19)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Tovarish @ April 23 2003,06:12)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><span id='postcolor'>

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Maybe it's that the visor on the current Russian helmet retracts into the helmet itself? I've seem some US helmets that are like that also though.<span id='postcolor'>

I think it's the oxygen mask.  It's just a solid chunk of plastic shaped like a funnel almost, doesn't look efficient, or comfortable.  And looking at those videos they don't even meet.  One time the guys nose was sticking out above the mask!

I've never worn one, but the Navy's rubber mask looks much more comfortable.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">A $42 million stealth fighter lost part of a wing and crashed in a huge fireball in a residential neighborhood because military technicians failed to install four fasteners, Air Force officials said Friday.

The oversight, which left only one fastener in place, occurred last January while the F-117A was undergoing repairs at Holloman Air Force Base, N.M., said Col. John Beard, head of the five-member investigative panel.

Two subsequent maintenance checks failed to detect the missing fasteners.

In July 1996, the area of the plane where the wings attach was inspected by three technicians who climbed onto the wing, stuck their heads in a small hole, and checked with a flashlight held in their mouths and a mirror. But none could say all the fasteners were attached, Beard said.

About a year later, a pilot noticed that the left wing was about 2 inches higher than normal and had too much "flex." An inspection of the wing found it normal.

There was no entry in maintenance records that the pilot had noticed a problem or that any corrective action was taken, Beard said.

<span id='postcolor'><span id='postcolor'>

So I AM right to tell my instructor "hey that strut looks a little low..."

<span id='postcolor'>

Always point out things if it looks out of the ordinary, even if you feel a little stupid. My elementry training was carried out on these....

( Don't laugh! The little bastard can pull insane maneouvers! )

Looking at the A/C on my walkround, (I had been up already in the morning), I swore that one side was lower than the other. Explaing this to the groundies, one fetched a spirit level, and placed it on the engine cowling.... way off.

Turned out that the brackets on the left gear hadn't been fixed properly in the factory, and the aircraft was down 2 inches on the left! Lucky I didn't PIO the bugger on touchdown, or I would have snapped the bloody gear off. (Which knowing my landings, was quite likely ).

It was so bad, we had to send the bugger back to Germany to get rebuilt. Point is, no-one had noticed that for at least 10 sorties... if that gear had let go on me as I landed, I would have been one very pissed off guy.

(Oh, and there's the story about 3 of the 4 bolts hodling the right elevator on that had sheared off, but I'll leave that for another time. The joys of trialing new A/C eh? Use the students as test pilots! )

[Mister Frag 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (FSPilot @ April 22 2003,16:44)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Akira @ April 23 2003,06:29)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Also I heard that Airbus and the French Government (which heavily subsidizes Airbus) covered up the software glitches in their new "state of the art" flying system. For example in the case of the A320, the computer was in control and for some reason (after it reached a certain low altitude) started the landing cycle. The pilot, noticing that was wrong, tried to regain control of the plane, but was stymied by the insistant computer. The pilot was then blamed and railroaded witht he manslaughter charges.

What I heard at least...<span id='postcolor'>

Thats horrible!  I hope it's just a rumor.<span id='postcolor'>

Nope. Check out the link I provided.

[FSPilot 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Badgerboy @ April 23 2003,06:45)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Always point out things if it looks out of the ordinary, even if you feel a little stupid. My elementry training was carried out on these....

( Don't laugh! The little bastard can pull insane maneouvers! )

Looking at the A/C on my walkround, (I had been up already in the morning), I swore that one side was lower than the other. Explaing this to the groundies, one fetched a spirit level, and placed it on the engine cowling.... way off.

Turned out that the brackets on the left gear hadn't been fixed properly in the factory, and the aircraft was down 2 inches on the left! Lucky I didn't PIO the bugger on touchdown, or I would have snapped the bloody gear off. (Which knowing my landings, was quite likely ).

It was so bad, we had to send the bugger back to Germany to get rebuilt. Point is, no-one had noticed that for at least 10 sorties... if that gear had let go on me as I landed, I would have been one very pissed off guy.

(Oh, and there's the story about 3 of the 4 bolts hodling the right elevator on that had sheared off, but I'll leave that for another time. The joys of trialing new A/C eh? Use the students as test pilots! )<span id='postcolor'>

Oh yeah, I'm always noticing small things like that. The plane I fly now is... well... delapidated (I just hope i'm not it's last pilot). There's always "gunk" in the left tank fuel sump that goes away after running a few tester-fulls of avgas through it, and I've been noticing a "burp" in the engine when I adjust power on final approach (the RPM will jump a good amount, sometimes as much as 500, then go back down to normal). I think the burp is related to the carburetor heat which we had been using wrongly. On the Archer models (PA-28-161s) I learned to fly in (after a brief stint in a cramped little Cessna) you'd always apply carburetor heat at abeam the numbers. On this model (PA-28-180) you're apparently not supposed to apply carb. heat unless you've encountered known carburetor icing. There's also a little technicality in the engine. You are to "avoid continuous operation between 2150 and 2350 RPM". I've done this for as long as I've known about it, but I recently asked our mechanic why. Apparently it has to do with the vibrations in the engine setting up a harmony with counter balances, or something to that sort. Anyway if you fly at 21-2350 for long enough, roughly 30 minutes he said, you could rip the engine apart.

Whoa, I rambled. See what happens when you get me talking about planes?

And that website is truly a sad story. Don't fly for Air France.

[Jinef 2]

Yeah, the whole idea of aircraft makes my toes curl!

The Harrier's wing is only held on by four main bolts, if anyone is interested. And the engineers at RAF St Athan are completely insane, i walked in to find them all covered in chalk dust that they should have been putting on the tyres to protect them.

[Tovarish 0]

*sigh* to be a military pilot...too bad there isn't a chance of me doing that. Not being able to see much a meter in fron of me without glasses kind of rules it out. And I guess Cuban citizenship wouldn't help much either . Oh well, maybe I'll just code up my own sim someday.

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Mister Frag @ April 23 2003,01:48)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (FSPilot @ April 22 2003,16:44)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Akira @ April 23 2003,06:29)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Also I heard that Airbus and the French Government (which heavily subsidizes Airbus) covered up the software glitches in their new "state of the art" flying system. For example in the case of the A320, the computer was in control and for some reason (after it reached a certain low altitude) started the landing cycle. The pilot, noticing that was wrong, tried to regain control of the plane, but was stymied by the insistant computer. The pilot was then blamed and railroaded witht he manslaughter charges.

What I heard at least...<span id='postcolor'>

Thats horrible!  I hope it's just a rumor.<span id='postcolor'>

Nope. Check out the link I provided.<span id='postcolor'>

Yepp, the Airbus had some software problems at the beginning which they tried to blame on pilot errors. Very low IMO.

Anyhow it's been fixed and the Airbuses have a good safety record. They have an excellent line of planes - all fly-by wire and are technologically about three decades ahead of Boeing. More leg space too

Btw, the Airbus isn't French. It's made by a European consortium consisting of companies from virtually every European country. Incidentally the software systems were mostly designed by German & Spanish engineers, not French.

And FSPilot, boycotting Air France will do you little good, virtually every larger airline in the world uses Airbuses.

[Tovarish 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ April 23 2003,02:39)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">And FSPilot, boycotting Air France will do you little good, virtually every larger airline in the world uses Airbuses.<span id='postcolor'>

yeah that was the first airliner I ever got on that wasn't an IL-62m, Tu-154, An-2 or An-24. Next time I'll be checking for an "Intel Inside" sticker on the cockpit door though .

[Jinef 2]

Turning off all the computer assistance, we love to do that when we're bored, it's also considered good training.

A helicopter starts to wander off in it's own little ways without the computer, trying to think of all the forces acting on you is very hard especially when arguing with your copilot about numerous TV series!

[IceFire 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Tovarish @ April 23 2003,02:38)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">*sigh* to be a military pilot...too bad there isn't a chance of me doing that. Not being able to see much a meter in fron of me without glasses kind of rules it out. And I guess Cuban citizenship wouldn't help much either . Oh well, maybe I'll just code up my own sim someday.<span id='postcolor'>

Tovarish, you have Cuban citizenship?

I thought you were a Canadian.

Hmm. Maybe that was someone else?

What's Cuba like?

[Tovarish 0]

0--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (IceFire @ April 23 2003,030)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Tovarish, you have Cuban citizenship?

I thought you were a Canadian.

Hmm.  Maybe that was someone else?

What's Cuba like?<span id='postcolor'>

As of 5 years ago I'm both. Canada has fairly normal relations with Cuba, so I was able to maintain dual-citizenship. Cuba's situation is hard to describe at the moment but obviously not optimal. Anyway better not go offtopic anymore or this fine thread will be closed. Anything else about Cuba should go in this thread

[Badgerboy 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (FSPilot @ April 23 2003,01:23)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Badgerboy @ April 23 2003,06:45)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Always point out things if it looks out of the ordinary, even if you feel a little stupid. My elementry training was carried out on these....

( Don't laugh! The little bastard can pull insane maneouvers! )

Looking at the A/C on my walkround, (I had been up already in the morning), I swore that one side was lower than the other. Explaing this to the groundies, one fetched a spirit level, and placed it on the engine cowling.... way off.

Turned out that the brackets on the left gear hadn't been fixed properly in the factory, and the aircraft was down 2 inches on the left! Lucky I didn't PIO the bugger on touchdown, or I would have snapped the bloody gear off. (Which knowing my landings, was quite likely ).

It was so bad, we had to send the bugger back to Germany to get rebuilt. Point is, no-one had noticed that for at least 10 sorties... if that gear had let go on me as I landed, I would have been one very pissed off guy.

(Oh, and there's the story about 3 of the 4 bolts hodling the right elevator on that had sheared off, but I'll leave that for another time. The joys of trialing new A/C eh? Use the students as test pilots! )<span id='postcolor'>

Oh yeah, I'm always noticing small things like that.  The plane I fly now is... well... delapidated (I just hope i'm not it's last pilot).  There's always "gunk" in the left tank fuel sump that goes away after running a few tester-fulls of avgas through it, and I've been noticing a "burp" in the engine when I adjust power on final approach (the RPM will jump a good amount, sometimes as much as 500, then go back down to normal).  I think the burp is related to the carburetor heat which we had been using wrongly.  On the Archer models (PA-28-161s) I learned to fly in (after a brief stint in a cramped little Cessna) you'd always apply carburetor heat at abeam the numbers.  On this model (PA-28-180) you're apparently not supposed to apply carb. heat unless you've encountered known carburetor icing.  There's also a little technicality in the engine.  You are to "avoid continuous operation between 2150 and 2350 RPM".  I've done this for as long as I've known about it, but I recently asked our mechanic why.  Apparently it has to do with the vibrations in the engine setting up a harmony with counter balances, or something to that sort.  Anyway if you fly at 21-2350 for long enough, roughly 30 minutes he said, you could rip the engine apart.

Whoa, I rambled.  See what happens when you get me talking about planes?

And that website is truly a sad story.  Don't fly for Air France. <span id='postcolor'>

Garghhh! I trust that's a civilian A/C your flying? The military would have canned it!

We had a 'burper' as well, the dreaded 'Victor Oscar'. You had to give it 4 extra inches of manifold pressure compared to the other A/C, the constant speed unit kept fucking up, (Engine starts trying to redline itself), and I had a couple of engine cutouts on the ground. As the A/C are only a year or two old, we sent it back for a major overhaul to Grob. (MOD had some weird semi private/military thing going for light training aircraft. Works out cheaper).

In exchange, we got a brand new one, and VO got sent to Manchester. Within a week, some poor guy, flying solo (Only about 2 hours worth), was conducting a PFL. (Practise forced landing), he set it up, came round, got to 250ft (minimum altitude), put the power back on.... BURP! Cough! Whistle! Silence.

Thank God he had setup the approach correctly, he put it down in the field, jumped out, and the rescue guys found him smoking his cigarettes in the corner of the field. Legend!

(This is the reason I prefered military flying. You get a parachute, survival gear, transmitter (Sea King picks you up in 20mins), first aid kit etc. I went up with a friend in a civil aircraft, and we just wore T shirts. Scared the crap out of me! )

How many hours have you done FSPilot? Is it mostly Nav VFR? (AKA PPL requirements) My last trip was advanced aeros before I had to knock the flying on the head for the time being. Bit annoying really, I haven't had any stick time for months now, and I hunger for my Cuban's, and the 'Ratty Roll'.

[FSPilot 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Badgerboy @ April 23 2003,09:25)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><span id='postcolor'>

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">And FSPilot, boycotting Air France will do you little good, virtually every larger airline in the world uses Airbuses.<span id='postcolor'>

Yes yes, my fault.

It's not like everybody else isn't boycotting everything French anyway.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Garghhh! I trust that's a civilian A/C your flying? The military would have canned it!<span id='postcolor'>

Yeah a military Piper Archer.

It's a civilian plane owned and operated by a civilian aero club, but funded by the military.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">How many hours have you done FSPilot? Is it mostly Nav VFR? (AKA PPL requirements) My last trip was advanced aeros before I had to knock the flying on the head for the time being. Bit annoying really, I haven't had any stick time for months now, and I hunger for my Cuban's, and the 'Ratty Roll'.<span id='postcolor'>

I've got around 65 hours, been working on my private liscense since I was 15. Just getting ready for my PPL checkride now. About a month if I keep my nose to the grindstone. After that I want to get my IFR ticket before I go to college in August (short notice I know, we'll see how it works).

I can't wait to go off to K-State. I'm hoping it will be more like military flying, at least with their maintenance standards. Now I'm flying a plane that smells like av gas and beer farts that has duct tape holding oen of the wingtip lights on, at K-state I'll be flying a 1999 (I think) Cessna Skylane or sundowner (or citation *swoons*), smells like a new car and looks like one too.

[Badgerboy 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Now I'm flying a plane that smells like av gas and beer farts that has duct tape holding oen of the wingtip lights on<span id='postcolor'>

Sky's the limit eh? If she comes apart on you, aim for the hanger, and take those lazy engineers with you! God knows I threatened them enough with it.

I'll try and post my check list one day. I need to compare it to a civilian one. 100 bloody checks before I even get into the air, and I have to memorize them all. (Not that I ever did. I always missed the same bloody one 20 trips in a row! )

[FSPilot 0]

Why would they have you memorize a checklist? I'd always been taught to not try to memorize it, lol. Safer to go through it the way it's written than to try to remember it. That isn't to say that I always do this. I hardly ever look at the checklist in the air unless I'm doing an emergency procedure.

Anyway, I shouldn't bring in the checklist from the plane, but I could xerox it and scan it. It's not that big, gotta dumb it down for us civilian pilots.

[Badgerboy 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (FSPilot @ April 23 2003,04:52)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Why would they have you memorize a checklist?  I'd always been taught to not try to memorize it, lol.  Safer to go through it the way it's written than to try to remember it.  That isn't to say that I always do this.  I hardly ever look at the checklist in the air unless I'm doing an emergency procedure.

Anyway, I shouldn't bring in the checklist from the plane, but I could xerox it and scan it.  It's not that big, gotta dumb it down for us civilian pilots. <span id='postcolor'>

If you start military flying, there is a good chance that you will have to memorize your checks.

I think its done in that manner, so you instantly have the information available to you, and don't have to faff around with some cards. It's not that bad when you get into a routine, but if you miss your flying for a few days, it takes a while to get your brain back into gear.

Who knows, maybe my boss was just a bastard? Not sure if its standard practise.

[Jinef 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Badgerboy @ April 23 2003,03:25)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">(Sea King picks you up in 20mins)<span id='postcolor'>

We aim to please, i've never picked up a military pilot in real life though, only in exercises. I'm mainly just getting hoax calls and civvie rescues.

But that's what we do, you aiming to be a fast jet flyer or what? If i had to do fixed wing i would go with the Hercs, they got a toilet and microwave onboard!

[bn880 5]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Jinef @ April 23 2003,11:37)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">But that's what we do, you aiming to be a fast jet flyer or what? If i had to do fixed wing i would go with the Hercs, they got a toilet and microwave onboard!<span id='postcolor'>

Hercs, yep I was once planning on flying those, but then I, like Tovarish realized better not go into that with glasses.

[Jinef 2]

If i keep looking at this forum i'm going to need glasses too!

Oh well, i'm going out to do real things now!