second_draw 0 Posted March 28, 2003 A recently as you may remember, an apache was shot down by your average joe-blow ak47 toting farmer and the crew were consequentially captured. Now, I have always been under the impression that unlike the old huey, the apache was well armoured and could take a small armour fire beating. And then... After the apache was shot down, it was not destroyed by the crew... or an airstrike! From what I've learnt from readings to whatever, this goes against a few things. Could someone explain this plz? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Badgerboy 0 Posted March 29, 2003 It was probably a technical problem. (Engine failure). Don't forget, they are not invincible, as the Apaches in Afganistan got the crap kicked out of them (Badly damaged, but not downed) I was under the impression that coalition forces destroyed the chopper with a air strike later thatday, but if not, the Iraqis now have a shiny new AH64! (Oh and as this relates to the current conflict, you might want to post further things in the 'Dog's of War' thread) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SKULLS_Viper 0 Posted March 29, 2003 They sent a F-16 to destroy the downed Apache, if I remeber.I don't think a rifle could take it down.I think the farmer said he shot it down, just so he could get the money reward.And can't those Apaches could take anything up to 23mm rounds and still survive? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ralphwiggum 6 Posted March 29, 2003 Iraq claims that a farmer shot it down. US says not so. it's a matter of dispute until a 3rd party does objective testing. i highly doubt if rifle ammunition beat that chopper. it could be that mechanical failure lead to landing and the pilots were surrounded by pheasants with guns. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Warin 0 Posted March 29, 2003 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (RalphWiggum @ Mar. 29 2003,01:45)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Iraq claims that a farmer shot it down. US says not so. it's a matter of dispute until a 3rd party does objective testing. i highly doubt if rifle ammunition beat that chopper. it could be that mechanical failure lead to landing and the pilots were surrounded by pheasants with guns.<span id='postcolor'> Pheasants with guns?!? Good lord, Saddam is just an evil bastard! Arming small fowl to do his bidding!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Col. Kurtz 0 Posted March 29, 2003 According to the Iraqi government, the farmer shot it down with a pistol Other Apache pilots however said that they came across heavy AA fire. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
madmedic 0 Posted March 29, 2003 That Apache flew into a BUNCH of small arms fire...not just one guy with an AK. Yes, it has been "dis-assembled" by coalition aircraft. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
madmedic 0 Posted March 29, 2003 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Warin @ Mar. 29 2003,01:47)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (RalphWiggum @ Mar. 29 2003,01:45)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Iraq claims that a farmer shot it down. US says not so. it's a matter of dispute until a 3rd party does objective testing. i highly doubt if rifle ammunition beat that chopper. it could be that mechanical failure lead to landing and the pilots were surrounded by pheasants with guns.<span id='postcolor'> Pheasants with guns?!? Good lord, Saddam is just an evil bastard! Â Arming small fowl to do his bidding!!! Â <span id='postcolor'> LMAO....well, he must have figured "since the U.S. is using dolphins...and I cant get any of my other air power in the air" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
second_draw 0 Posted March 29, 2003 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Badgerboy @ Mar. 29 2003,01:02)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">It was probably a technical problem. (Engine failure). Don't forget, they are not invincible, as the Apaches in Afganistan got the crap kicked out of them (Badly damaged, but not downed) I was under the impression that coalition forces destroyed the chopper with a air strike later thatday, but if not, the Iraqis now have a shiny new AH64! (Oh and as this relates to the current conflict, you might want to post further things in the 'Dog's of War' thread)<span id='postcolor'> figures, I couldn't see anything real damage on the aircraft. but then I'm no apache expert. but why didn't the crew destory the aircraft? Isn't there a big red button in the cabin? Are the crew expected to open the engine compartment and perform various the sabotage techinques while escaping? lol, attack of the pheasants Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
toadlife 3 Posted March 29, 2003 Is it remotely possible that a bullet from an AK-47 or other rifle slipped into some crack, and broke some little $5 part and caused the pilot to have to land the bird? Either that or a random failure. Regardless, It's obvious the helicopter was able to land safely and didn't really crash. I heard a report that one the apache helicopters took a direct hit from an RPG was still able to fly home, so those birds are obviouly well armored. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ralphwiggum 6 Posted March 29, 2003 i heard that there is a button you can push to destroy internal electonics in case you have to abandon. and pheasants can be lethal too. look at how airports around the nations are having problems with. note to self: never ever shoot more than 50 rounds of .45 aCP when you are tired. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Col. Kurtz 0 Posted March 29, 2003 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (RalphWiggum @ Mar. 29 2003,12:21)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">note to self: never ever shoot more than 50 rounds of .45 aCP when you are tired.<span id='postcolor'> Yeah, your aim might be so off you'll accidently hit an Apache and cause it to crash Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ex-RoNiN 0 Posted March 29, 2003 Pilot drunk too much Sothern Comfort and crash landed...just like I am about to crash land Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crewcutkid 0 Posted March 29, 2003 What is an Iraqi Farmer? What does he farm? Does he herd camels? Do they have tractors? How come the Apache has no holes in it? How come the Pilot's survival gear is gone? How come the Iraqis cant open the cockpit? Where did the choppers hellfires go? Dear god man, I need an asprin! -Crew Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
red oct 2 Posted March 29, 2003 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (crewcutkid @ Mar. 29 2003,03:15)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">What is an Iraqi Farmer? What does he farm? Does he herd camels? Do they have tractors? How come the Apache has no holes in it? How come the Pilot's survival gear is gone? How come the Iraqis cant open the cockpit? Where did the choppers hellfires go? Dear god man, I need an asprin! -Crew<span id='postcolor'> 1. probaly look like what every other farmer looks like in the world   2. Alfalpha is a common plant or "crop" if you wana call it, that's grown in the Middle East  3. it could be that the video footage didn't show any of the dammage, it only showed one side of the chopper or it really could be a engine failure. 4.maybe the pilots took it w/ them? 5. maybe the pilots locked it cockpit or the iraqies thought they had to push instead of pull?  6. i could still see that some of the missles were still there and maybe some of them were fired. offers crew an asprin and water Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crewcutkid 0 Posted March 30, 2003 Danke -Crew EDIT- Umm, on the latest pics i saw, no hellfires were there, and my point about the survival gear being gone- well, i guess the pilots the iraqis have are not truly the ones who flew the apache. -Crew Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Warin 0 Posted March 30, 2003 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (crewcutkid @ Mar. 30 2003,01:17)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Danke -Crew EDIT- Umm, on the latest pics i saw, no hellfires were there, and my point about the survival gear being gone- well, i guess the pilots the iraqis have are not truly the ones who flew the apache. -Crew<span id='postcolor'> Erm..why not? I would think that when I captured an enemy, I would remove all that sort of thing from him. The survival gear could be laying out of view of the camera when they took the pictures. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kegetys 2 Posted March 30, 2003 Some missiles are still there, looks like hellfires... But missing from the other side? it sits there so nicely it looks that it was landed there, and no external damage I can see... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ran 0 Posted March 30, 2003 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Warin @ Mar. 30 2003,01:37)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (crewcutkid @ Mar. 30 2003,01:17)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Danke -Crew EDIT- Umm, on the latest pics i saw, no hellfires were there, and my point about the survival gear being gone- well, i guess the pilots the iraqis have are not truly the ones who flew the apache. -Crew<span id='postcolor'> Erm..why not? Â I would think that when I captured an enemy, I would remove all that sort of thing from him. Â The survival gear could be laying out of view of the camera when they took the pictures.<span id='postcolor'> you're right , i would remove anything from the helmet to the paper tissues and especially in this case where if i was an iraqi i wouldn't know the possible abilities of the pilots and what he carries , he could very well be wearing weapons or explosives he could trigger , or even evasion material , and survival kit is there for one thing : to survive , that means that there may be a light weaponary in it Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
-TU--33ker 0 Posted March 30, 2003 lol have you seen the farmer who claimed to have shot the apache down? that was an old man with a much older Mauser rifle. he didn't look like he could hit anything with it. it was just propaganda. imagine an old farmer shooting down a deadly monster machine. it's like David and Goliath! a story made up for TV. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Longinius 1 Posted March 30, 2003 "lol have you seen the farmer who claimed to have shot the apache down? that was an old man with a much older Mauser rifle. he didn't look like he could hit anything with it. it was just propaganda. imagine an old farmer shooting down a deadly monster machine. it's like David and Goliath! a story made up for TV." While I dont think the farmer brought down the Apache, I dont think you should underestimate these guys. We are talking about people that possibly took part in the Iran / Iraq wars and god knows whatever conflicts. It is very possible that an Iraqi peasant has more battle-experience than most coalition troops. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gollum1 0 Posted March 30, 2003 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Warin @ Mar. 29 2003,02:47)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (RalphWiggum @ Mar. 29 2003,01:45)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Iraq claims that a farmer shot it down. US says not so. it's a matter of dispute until a 3rd party does objective testing. i highly doubt if rifle ammunition beat that chopper. it could be that mechanical failure lead to landing and the pilots were surrounded by pheasants with guns.<span id='postcolor'> Pheasants with guns?!? Good lord, Saddam is just an evil bastard! Â Arming small fowl to do his bidding!!! Â <span id='postcolor'> LOL man Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Albert Schweitzer 10 Posted March 30, 2003 Well some things you should now... first of all this was a farmer, right? But what the hell is a farmer doing in the desert?...well definetly not for professional purposes as you might assume cause mother earth is not very rewarding in such an area. No the truth is that the farmer was there to celebrate the marriage of his daughter. And as we know is one of the old countryside traditions to shoot into the air during cheerfull happenings. The last thing the poor farmer wanted was to interfer in the war. Well and actually it was the pilots fault who was so surprised and shocked by the sudden attack that he dropped his aiforce donut into the airforce cup with the airforce coffee and the airforce coffee spilled and burnt the "personal" JOYstick of the airforce pilot who then took his hands from the mechanic-joystick to save his own body-joystick from burning. Consequently without having intended it he forced the chopper out of the air into a the sand and slaughtered some cows, those cows which the farmer had promised to the family of the spouse. The insurance of course has to deal with the problem whether the farmer has to pay the pilot for the damaged chopper or the pilot has to pay the cows. However before this hasnt been cleared the accused will stay in custody. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NavyEEL 0 Posted March 30, 2003 Apache had an internal failure, likely it was something to do with the hydraulic line. the Apache was destroyed and the enemy recovered no valuable information off of it. two things unanswered: 1. where was his wingman when this pilot landed the helicopter? 2. why didn't the wingman rescue the pilot and gunner after they landed their helicopter? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Warin 0 Posted March 30, 2003 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (NavyEEL @ Mar. 30 2003,22:08)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Apache had an internal failure, likely it was something to do with the hydraulic line. Â the Apache was destroyed and the enemy recovered no valuable information off of it. two things unanswered: 1. Â where was his wingman when this pilot landed the helicopter? 2. Â why didn't the wingman rescue the pilot and gunner after they landed their helicopter?<span id='postcolor'> Perhaps the 'wingman' also suffered damage from ground fire and had to return to base. If not, I dont think an Apache has room inside for two extra crew members. Plus, if you look at the photos of where the Apache came down, it looks pretty agricultural in nature. So a farmer story may not be too far off Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
