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Warin

The Dogs of War

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</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Schoeler @ April 02 2003,07:17)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">E6Hotel, LMAO!  Leave it to you Marines, typical.<span id='postcolor'>

Well I've gotta say, I hear that Delta had something to do with it.   wink.gif

Semper Fi

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The Iraqi air force has not been destroyed. One Iraqi MiG-25 (a high speed recon aircraft that can carry weapons) was spotted in the air over coalition troops, but escaped and landed at an unknown location before coalition fighters could catch it. Coalition AWACS air control aircraft radars do not cover all of Iraq. There are areas north of Baghdad where you could hide warplanes in towns and villages, and use a nearby highway for landings and takeoffs.

US troops also spotted what appeared to be two ultralight civilian aircraft. Not sure who they belonged to, by the time coalition troops could confirm that they were Iraqi, the ultralights were gone. It is feared that the ultralights, crop dusters or civilian aircraft might be used for chemical weapons attacks.

U.S., British and Australian mine clearing teams have spent over a week clearing a 400 meter wide channel along the 65 kilometers long Khor Abdallah channel, from the Persian Gulf to Iraq's only port of Umm Qasr. But it is felt that only 90 percent of the mines have been cleared. Most of the unswept mines are "bottom mines" that sit on the bottom of the shallow channel, using magnetism or water pressure from ships overhead to set them off. Because of the mine danger, cargos will have to come in on military supply ships. Civilian cargo ships cannot get insurance to enter such a dangerous area. This will increase the cost of moving in relief supplies. Another problem with humanitarian aid is that most people who run the NGO (Non-Governmental Organizations) aid organizations are pretty self-righteous and anti-military in the best of times, but are in a major snit over the "U.S. aggression" in Iraq and are demanding no military participation in relief efforts in Iraq. Otherwise they will refuse to help out. The military would like the NGOs to get involved, but may have to go without them in order to get the aid to the Iraqi people.

The U.S. is rushing several thousand troops from Armored Cavalry and Military Police units to Kuwait. These troops are trained in patrolling and security and will replace combat units in providing supply convoy security patrols. While the armored cavalry normally operate in armored vehicles, they can use armed hummers instead, which can be flown in more quickly than armored vehicles (which have to come by ship.)

U.S. warplanes dropped over 8,000 smart bombs in the last week. This includes 700 cruise missiles. Most ranged in weight from 500 to 2000 pounds. Over the last weekend, 3,000 smart bombs were dropped primarily on Republican Guard units around Baghdad. The U.S. Air Force believes that human error and equipment failure have led to about ten percent of these weapons missing their targets.

0,1984,OID1696664,00.jpg

Polish special forces at the harbour of Umm Kasr.

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</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ April 02 2003,08:17)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Schoeler @ April 02 2003,07:15)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">BBC is reporting that Karbala has fallen to the coalition and that all the roads in and out are under control.  The battle was expected to last over 24 hours and it only took 3.  I hope this is the beginning of a positive trend.<span id='postcolor'>

"fallen" is a very relative term. They have surrounded it, but the city itself is in Iraqi control.<span id='postcolor'>

Reported here on TV 2 hours ago as unconfirmed reports.

Maybe "falling" is more appropriate, like Umm Qasr.

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huh, didn't know the Iraqi's had B or D model Foxbats. I thought they stuck with the run of the mill intereptors. Actually, the fact that they didn't all fly to Iran and subsequently get co-opted back in '91 surprises me even more- the Foxbats may be old, but they sure as hell aren't cheap.

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Those things are fast as hell too. Its no small wonder our planes couldn't catch up to it. I wonder, does anyone know if Iraq has any of the Foxbat's more modern and powerful cousin, the Mig-31?

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</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Schoeler @ April 02 2003,08:25)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Those things are fast as hell too.  Its no small wonder our planes couldn't catch up to it.  I wonder, does anyone know if Iraq has any of the Foxbat's more modern and powerful cousin, the Mig-31?<span id='postcolor'>

AFAIK, Iraq does not possess any Mig-31s, and if they did in the past, they no longer have them.

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"Leave it to my Devil Dogs to track down a 19-year old blonde chick in the middle of the freakin' desert."

Of course it did help that the doctor who had treated her tipped the Coalition off...

On a side note, the journalists that had been captured have been released. None of them tortured, just questioned.

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</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Balschoiw @ April 02 2003,07:49)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Coalition AWACS air control aircraft radars do not cover all of Iraq.<span id='postcolor'>

I'm surprised that this hasn't been pointed out more. There is a serious shortage in AWACs coverage since most of the birds and their crew are German.

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</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ April 02 2003,11:25)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">There is a serious shortage in AWACs coverage since most of the birds and their crew are German.<span id='postcolor'>

Those are AVACs. biggrin.gif

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</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"> There is a serious shortage in AWACs coverage since most of the birds and their crew are German.

<span id='postcolor'>

The AWACS in turkey with german personel are not allowed to take part in coalition attack on Iraq. They are only responsible to track movements towards turkey and therefore play no role in the coalition strikes. They are there under NATO directives. This means they are only working for turkey´s defence purposes.

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The coalition forces seem to go for Bagdad now. A bit surprising as they still lack support. Units are on 3 MRE´s per 36 hours. Reserves in ammo, fuel, medical goods and food plus water should be at least sufficient for 10 days before the offensive starts. Well that´s what I was tought. But as it looks TBA wants to go for it now and don´t want to wait any longer. Good decision ? I doubt it.

There is too much trouble on the routes of supply and this could get a trap to the bagdad forces.

I should note that this is my opinion from the knowledge I have, before some false-patriots start some verbal clash again. Funny enough that all my prior prognostics showed to be true tounge.gif

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</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Balschoiw @ April 02 2003,11:44)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Funny enough that all my prior prognostics showed to be true  tounge.gif<span id='postcolor'>

Didn't you say just a few days ago that it would take them about a month before they started on Baghdad? confused.gif

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</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Longinius @ April 02 2003,10:58)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">On a side note, the journalists that had been captured have been released. None of them tortured, just questioned.<span id='postcolor'>

You're talking about the 4 journalists who made it to Jordan after being held in Baghdad prison?

Yes, they're OK but their former neighbors aren't:

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Adding to the tension, they said, was that they often heard the screams of other prisoners being tortured and saw some with their eyes and faces bloodied and swollen. "There were beatings and torture going on outside our cells, in the corridor, literally,†McAllester said. Other inmates hobbled around, apparently because the soles of their feet had been burned or otherwise injured.<span id='postcolor'>

Full article at Newsday, who employ two of the released journalists:

http://www.newsday.com/news....adlines

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Has anyone noticed the high number of Barrett M82A1 Sniper Rifles showing up on media coverage of the war? Maybe the snipers role is changing within the marines to closer support infantry action.

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A bit of light relief smile.gif

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Flipper's new trick going AWOL

By Peter Wilson in Umm Qasr

31Mar03

THE US Navy's mine-clearing dolphins have been the surprise media stars of the Iraq war, but they have not exactly won over Australian divers working alongside them.

The polite way to express their scepticism about the mine-clearing skills of the dolphins is to question their reliability and cost efficiency, but there is another way to put it.

"Flipper's f...ed, mate," was how one diver saw things yesterday.

"The dolphins have had all this amazing publicity, but as soon as they put one in the water it shot through. There's a war going on and Flipper goes AWOL.

"He turned up a couple of days later, but in the meantime they had to bring in another one (by helicopter from a US Navy ship) and that meant some of our gear got bumped off the flight."

The handlers of the five dolphins at work in the Iraqi port of Umm Qasr confirmed yesterday that one of their charges, a male named Tacoma, did disappear when he was put in the water to go to work.

"Two days later we found him in the same spot where we put him in the water," said Lieutenant Robert Greene, the officer in charge of the M-7 series of mine-clearing dolphins.

Tacoma was yesterday resting in his holding pool with the navy's oldest dolphin, 33-year-old Makay. Makay has been more diligent in Iraq, perhaps learning from a painful experience when he too took off from duty once in Florida. A shark attacked him during his holiday, leaving him with scars on his back.

Lieutenant Greene said the dolphins had been a great success in Iraq, using their sonar to detect potential mines and placing markers on them to guide human divers to the targets.

The US military has invested tens of millions of dollars in its sea mammal program since 1969, and there has been considerable pressure for it to succeed in Iraq, the dolphins' first mine-clearing deployment in such a war zone.

Some of the Australian and British divers working with the US team in Umm Qasr say they appreciate any help they receive, be it human, mechanical or otherwise, but the sceptics say the dolphins are too unreliable.

"If you put one to work in Sydney Harbour it would mark a million things because it can't tell the difference between a washing machine and a mine," one diver said.

"The bottom line, mate, is it's a fish.

"It's also a very smart fish so how do you know it hasn't just gone off for a feed instead of working and then thought 'hang on, I'd better mark a few things or they won't give me any fish when I get back'?

"We're talking about mines here, so that's a pretty big risk to take based on Flipper's say-so."

Lieutenant Greene said the Atlantic bottlenosed dolphins were not primarily motivated by the promise of food.

This report appears on news.com.au.

<span id='postcolor'>

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</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Didn't you say just a few days ago that it would take them about a month before they started on Baghdad? <span id='postcolor'>

No Avon. I said it will take them at least 4 weeks to get the reinforcements to Iraq. In a military view it would be reasonable to wait till they are there to assist with firepower and support. The military lead (or should I better say the TBA) has obviously decided to start the run on Bagdad before the reinforcements are in Iraq. Risky and a bit dumb in my opinion, but the coaltion forces need to show sucess to the public as the pressure is rising and Blair is already losing support within his country.

It is not very smart to fix large forces on Bagdad that are very dependant on support that is not guaranteed at the moment.

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The big unanswered question is what are they going to do about Baghdad. The problems at Basra are just a little taste of what Baghdad has in store. I don't think they would be insane enough to try to go in . So the alternative is a siege, and for that as Bals pointed out there are far from enough troops in place. A siege would also lead to a humanitarian disaster of epic proportions. The military has its own supplies and when they run out they'll just grab the rest from the civilians. Are the coalition forces willing to starve out 6,000,000 people to weaken Iraqi 200,000 soldiers?

This latest push north is important from a psychological point of view, but not from a military point of view. The main core of the Iraqi military is still in the cities. Baghdad itself holds about three RG divisions, two SRG divisions and five regular army divisions. Add to that about 100,000-200,000 of the People's militia. Attacking the forces around Baghdad is important but it doesn't really solve anything. If you don't get Baghdad itself, you havn't achieved anything.

On the postivie side for the coalition is that their losses have so far been militarily insignificant. Their supply lines seem to be moving again and they have taken measures to protect them againts ambushes.

But what about Baghdad?

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</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ April 02 2003,12:58)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">But what about Baghdad?<span id='postcolor'>

I guess the CENTCOM is still counting on the Iraqi resitance folding up by the time they get there. "Kick in the door and the whole house comes crumbling down" and all that... Remember how well that strategy worked out for Wehrmacht? wink.gif And in this war, just as in that one, there are politicians running interference for the military.

Edit: not CENTCOM, rather Rummy

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</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Ex-RoNiN @ April 02 2003,12:03)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Flipper's new trick: Going AWOL<span id='postcolor'>

Considering that dolphins have a considerably larger and more wrinkled brain than humans, maybe Flipper just decided he did not want to fight the wars of other species. wink.gif

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</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Oligo @ April 02 2003,14:42)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Considering that dolphins have a considerably larger and more wrinkled brain than humans<span id='postcolor'>

Well, if we humans stayed in the water as long as dolphins, our brains would be more wrinkled, too. tounge.gif

crazy.gif

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</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Oligo @ April 02 2003,13:42)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">wow.gif3--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Ex-RoNiN @ April 02 2003,12wow.gif3)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Flipper's new trick: Going AWOL<span id='postcolor'>

Considering that dolphins have a considerably larger and more wrinkled brain than humans, maybe Flipper just decided he did not want to fight the wars of other species.  wink.gif<span id='postcolor'>

"Just a sec, you wan't me to stick this little flag on that highly explosive device? Um, I think I hear a swimmer in trouble, bye!" tounge.gif

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