The Dogs of War

[killagee 0]

Yeah Denior and Avon are always here!!

Denior is probably pale white anyway ( swedish yes?) . Avon how is your complexion these days... I bet you force your kids onto networked computers to form part of your OFP squad!

Seriously tho... The difficult work in this conflict is just beginning. Such as preventing:

Iraq falling into Anarchy / Feudaliam.

Iraq becoming a US puppet state.

Iraq becoming someone elses puppet state.

Kurds being free but not with their own soveignty ( would bring Iran and turkey into conflict)

US becoming too confident now and trying to do the dame thing in Iran or Syria or N.Korea (now where did i put those mushrooms...) or................Antarctica! (lots of oil down here (and penguins and lovable hippies))

TV networks starting there own wars, and embedding soldiers in their journalists....

Peace

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (killagee @ April 10 2003,11:03)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Avon how is your complexion these days...<span id='postcolor'>

Since we haven't had to put on our gas masks even once, I'd say rosy!

[killagee 0]

Sweet! Was it as much a concern this time as in GW1?

How are things looking to you at the moment re:tearing down statues, looting etc?

[PFC Mongoose 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Harnu @ April 10 2003,03:22)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">wow! I just saw something on MSNBC of a 21,000lbs bomb that arrived in Iraq today.  They had a computer animation of how they intend to use it, it has to be dropped off from the back of a C130!<span id='postcolor'>

Ah yes, the Mother Of All Bombs (heh, heard that phrase so much I've all but forgotten the actual name)

The bomb that supposedly simulated a nuclear weapon, right down to the mushroom cloud.

I heard they were going to use a couple as part of 'shock and awe', guess they didn't have to.

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (killagee @ April 10 2003,11:45)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"> Sweet! Was it as much a concern this time as in GW1?<span id='postcolor'>

To some people, yes. I mean, no one really knew what was going to happen this time.

But to many of us, including ourselves, there was much less concern this time than last.

We made the kids take their masks to school for the first 5-7 days but then we stopped, as did 99% of the country.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">How are things looking to you at the moment re:tearing down statues, looting etc?<span id='postcolor'>

Just as they most probably look to you.

[killagee 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (theavonlady @ April 10 2003,21:30)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">How are things looking to you at the moment re:tearing down statues, looting etc?<span id='postcolor'>

Just as they most probably look to you.<span id='postcolor'>

I've been thinking about Mob reactions alot today. I dont mean this as any analogy to what the people in Iraq feel at the moment, but today I mixed a gig for a Heavy Metal band at a Catholic Girls school

They went ballistic, stage diving screaming and getting the band to sign their uniforms (and under them...Dodgy dodgy, it was a school for crying out loud! ). Most of them had never heard of the band before, but their loyal fans whipped the other girls into a frenzy. I see this happen at lots of gigs. I have decided to call it " Opportunistic Iconic Devotion". Sounds pretty clever anyway!

Maybe I have the wrong idea (as an Atheist), but whats the difference between a crowd getting whipped up about Allah, God, Political leaders, Micheal Jackson....

Sure. People who get off on Micheal Jackson have a problem....

[PitViper 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ April 10 2003,03:32)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Schoeler @ April 10 2003,09:30)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Denoir, do you ever sleep?  You are always here.<span id='postcolor'>

I just got up

Latest Fisk report<span id='postcolor'>

lol.. that poor man had to work really hard to spin negativism into that report. What a rube.

[PitViper 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ April 10 2003,03:46)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Well, I'm off to do some studying, I have two exams in about two weeks.. argh that drilling noise  <span id='postcolor'>

oh... a college boy? how can you be an officer without a degree?

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (PitViper @ April 10 2003,14:27)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ April 10 2003,03:46)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Well, I'm off to do some studying, I have two exams in about two weeks.. argh that drilling noise  <span id='postcolor'>

oh... a college boy?  how can you be an officer without a degree?<span id='postcolor'>

Post grad Hopefully done with my MSc soon.

There is however no requirement on a collage degree for being an officer. The only real requirement is prior serving as an NCO. If you don't have a degree from the military academy you can't be promoted above the rank of fänrik (lieutenant). Well, in theory you probably could, but it's extremely rare. Usually if you want a military career you attend the academy. Since I have no interest in pursuing a full military career I have no plans to do so.

[PitViper 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (madmedic @ April 09 2003,17:47)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Necromancer- @ April 09 2003,20:49)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">

1 question that bothers me about.

Are they protesting against the US peace activists who function as humanshields?<span id='postcolor'>

They were protesting against the human shields...

When the Marines rolled in to Paradise Square (or whatever its called) a small group of "human shields" ran out after awhile to start protesting against the Marines...

Some Iraqis started throwing rocks at them (the "human shields") and ran them off.

I was watching live when it happened.

It was while the Iraqis were trying to pull down the statue in Paradise Square (or whatever its called).<span id='postcolor'>

hehe...

[PitViper 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ April 10 2003,08:33)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (PitViper @ April 10 2003,14:27)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ April 10 2003,03:46)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Well, I'm off to do some studying, I have two exams in about two weeks.. argh that drilling noise  <span id='postcolor'>

oh... a college boy?  how can you be an officer without a degree?<span id='postcolor'>

Post grad Hopefully done with my MSc soon.

There is however no requirement on a collage degree for being an officer. The only real requirement is prior serving as an NCO. If you don't have a degree from the military academy you can't be promoted above the rank of fänrik (lieutenant). Well, in theory you probably could, but it's extremely rare. Usually if you want a military career you attend the academy. Since I have no interest in pursuing a full military career I have no plans to do so.<span id='postcolor'>

ahh.. ok.  What are you studying?  In the U.S. Army, you need some sort of degree to be an officer.  Very few officers have ever been NCO's.

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (PitViper @ April 10 2003,14:44)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">ahh.. ok.  What are you studying?  <span id='postcolor'>

Electrical engineering, but my focus has shifted to AI (neural networks and adaptive systems to be exact).

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">In the U.S. Army, you need some sort of degree to be an officer. Very few officers have ever been NCO's.<span id='postcolor'>

Well, there are fundamental differences between our systems, mainly since we have a conscription based military service. The only 'professional' soldiers that we have are the officers. The NCOs are also conscripts, they just get additional training and are in the service for a longer time. The natural path from there is going to the military academy, if you wish to pursue a military career. I didn't, but for reasons still unknown to me I got promoted to fänrik when I went to Kosovo.

[Die Alive 0]

You know what would be really funny?

If the Iraqi Information Minister, at the end of one of his truth filled statements, just yells out:

"LIVE FROM BAGHDAD, IT'S SATURDAY NIGHT LIVE"

Then the music would start playing and they go into the opening credits.

-=Die Alive=-

[mr. Duck 0]

I've read somewhere that Baghdad Bob had some overseas fans, bummer he decided to join the ba'ath party, he's indeed a good entertainer.

[SgtBarnes 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (mr. Duck @ April 10 2003,15:45)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I've read somewhere that Baghdad Bob had some overseas fans, bummer he decided to join the ba'ath party, he's indeed a good entertainer.  <span id='postcolor'>

Get your T-Shirt here http://www.football365shop.com/store....uct=900

[Die Alive 0]

From SomethingAwful.com

NAME: Iraqi Information Minister Mohammed Saeed al-Sahaf

AGE: Old, possibly older than previously speculated. Maybe less old if you lack the skill to accurately guess the age of Iraqi men and you err conservatively.

DATE OF BIRTH: Subtract his age from the current date to figure this out. Use one of Niels Bohr's equations if it will make you feel like a smartass.

RESIDENCY: Iraqsville, Iraqiland.

CURRENT STATUS: Living, or possibly the opposite, non-living. It all depends on if he ended up shot or exploded after a skirmish with Coalition forces and the two guys holding wooden axes shipped in from Spain.

HISTORY: His parents engaged in some sexual activity in one point in time, thereby transforming him into a zygote inside his mother's stomach. After a few months of gesticulation, he transformed and matured thanks to the larvae stage of development, and eventually grew into an embryo. Then he turned into a baby and somehow fell out of an unusually large hole in his mother, a bug which has been officially recognized by Microsoft. Look for a critical update patch soon. Sometime between then and now he became the Iraqi Information Minister. I would assume this could be credited to taking a few of those GED classes over the Internet where you can specialize in exciting and useful occupations such as "blacksmithing" and "observatory maintenance."

FAMOUS QUOTE: "I am Iraqi Information Minister Mohammed Saeed al-Sahaf."

With his background out of the way, it becomes easier to understand the complex enigma of Iraqi Information Minister Mohammed Saeed al-Sahaf. Throughout the war, Iraqi Information Minister Mohammed Saeed al-Sahaf's job revolved around putting a creative spin on the events occurring in his wonderful wasteland home of Iraq. Somebody handed him a piece of paper which read "SAY OPPOSITE OF WHATEVER AMERICANS CLAIM," and he followed those instructions by the book (Sylvia Browne's "Sylvia Browne's Book of Angels"). Each and every time any Coalition forces made a remark about Iraq, Iraqi Information Minister Mohammed Saeed al-Sahaf would jump out of his chair and refute the claim. If he wasn't previously sitting in a chair when the Coalition made the assertation, he would commandeer a chair, sit down in it, and immediately jump out while shrieking like a stray cat being fed into an ATM slot. These outlandish claims soon grew famous throughout the world, just like the movie "Outland" which revolved around Sean Connery living on the moon and shooting people in the gall bladder with a shotgun. His tall tales and laughable news reports lacked the journalistic integrity of such reputable sources as The National Enquirer and Billy Fergeson's 4th grade report about dinosaurs who travel through time searching for pirate treasure. I have compiled a list of the more notable Iraqi Information Minister Mohammed Saeed al-Sahaf quotes in response to Coalition claims to prove my point, although I really don't recall offhand exactly what this point revolved around.

COALITION QUOTE: "Our forces are moving through southern Iraq."

IRAQI INFORMATION MINISTER MOHAMMED SAEED AL-SAHAF RESPONSE: "The American forces were all destroyed in the Gulf of Mexico by the hand of Allah."

COALITION QUOTE: "We are engaging Iraqi hostiles with armored divisions and air support."

IRAQI INFORMATION MINISTER MOHAMMED SAEED AL-SAHAF RESPONSE: "Our mighty army has crushed the Americans, who are now committing suicide by voluntarily choking to death on either others' semen."

COALITION QUOTE: "After sustaining a direct hit from a rocket-propelled grenade, we returned fire and destroyed an Iraqi barracks."

IRAQI INFORMATION MINISTER MOHAMMED SAEED AL-SAHAF RESPONSE: "The Americans decided to blow up a hospital full of innocent children who were waiting for heart transplants and UN-approved eyeball replacements."

COALITION QUOTE: "We have recently captured and secured the Baghdad airport."

IRAQI INFORMATION MINISTER MOHAMMED SAEED AL-SAHAF RESPONSE: "Every single American in the world was recently smitten when Allah blew a fireball out of his hands and caused all the infidels to combust. Then Allah climbed into his candy-powered jet plane and flew to Pluto, a planet which may or may not exist according to my religion."

COALITION QUOTE: "Our forces are now able to move freely throughout Baghdad at will."

IRAQI INFORMATION MINISTER MOHAMMED SAEED AL-SAHAF RESPONSE: "American forces have invaded the wrong Iraq. I mean, I'm like sitting here in Iraq and everybody's happy and staring at dirt or whatever they normally do all day here, and I don't see shit. I don't know what Iraq they claimed to have invaded, but it's clearly the wrong Iraq. I'm drinking gin and lemonade here in my lawn chair, listening to some crazy music featuring a guy who screams a lot, and there's not a single American anywhere, and I even looked behind that phone booth across the street."

COALITION QUOTE: "We have liberated Iraq from Saddam Hussein."

IRAQI INFORMATION MINISTER MOHAMMED SAEED AL-SAHAF RESPONSE: "America and dry land are myths."

-=Die Alive=-

[Guest]

Found this on the ner:

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">

* Baghdad Bob with a US soldier standing next to him at his next TV appearance - "This? He is not a soldier of the pig-dogs, he is an ally deserted from those vile war criminals to fight for the true heroes."

* Baghdad Bob being taken into custody by same US soldier "He is escorting me to a more secure location, the cuffs are just being put on so I do not do heroic deeds as my hands are lethal weapons against the infidels."

* Baghdad Bob beside a US tank, hands cuffed behind back, under armed guard by US Marines: "This is one of the infidels tanks, captured by heroic Iraqi forces! These are infidel soldiers taken prisoner in the name of Allah and Saddam Hussein! SEE?? They are such pansies, I can guard them and control them with both hands tied behind my back!!"

* Baghdad Bob standing inside a prison cell - "I am not inside a jail cell, these bars are for your protection so I cannot slaughter you all."

<span id='postcolor'>

Well, to be fair his briefings were more accurate then the centcom's. At Najfa they became eqally bad and by the time of the Saddam Intl. Airoirt he had lost all grips on reality.

[PitViper 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ April 10 2003,08:50)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Well, there are fundamental differences between our systems, mainly since we have a conscription based military service. The only 'professional' soldiers that we have are the officers. The NCOs are also conscripts, they just get additional training and are in the service for a longer time. The natural path from there is going to the military academy, if you wish to pursue a military career. I didn't, but for reasons still unknown to me I got promoted to fänrik when I went to Kosovo.<span id='postcolor'>

How can you produce any experienced Generals if they are burning years as an NCO?

I suppose the swedes don't need more than a couple

[Warin 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (PitViper @ April 10 2003,17:00)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ April 10 2003,08:50)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Well, there are fundamental differences between our systems, mainly since we have a conscription based military service. The only 'professional' soldiers that we have are the officers. The NCOs are also conscripts, they just get additional training and are in the service for a longer time. The natural path from there is going to the military academy, if you wish to pursue a military career. I didn't, but for reasons still unknown to me I got promoted to fänrik when I went to Kosovo.<span id='postcolor'>

How can you produce any experienced Generals if they are burning years as an NCO?

I suppose the swedes don't need more than a couple <span id='postcolor'>

The highlighted part would say to me, along with his statememnts about an academy, that most officers go to an academy. So they arent burning up time as an NCO.

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Warin @ April 10 2003,17:12)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The highlighted part would say to me, along with his statememnts about an academy, that most officers go to an academy.  So they arent burning up time as an NCO. <span id='postcolor'>

Yes they are, they have to do regular service as an NCO. It's just 14 months so it's not so much time

You have to take into consideration that Sweden has a population of 8,5 million which is for example less then half of the population of New York. We still have a larger military than Canada, which has more than five times our population

[PitViper 0]

You are given sergeant rank automatically at 14 months? In the U.S army, you must earn promotion points and make a cutoff score which changes depending upon the number of free slots for each rank in the NCO Corps. There are lots of E-4's who spend years and years before getting to sergeant rank.

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (PitViper @ April 10 2003,17:42)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">You are given sergeant rank automatically at 14 months?  <span id='postcolor'>

No. First when you get drafted you have to pass a number of tests and you get assigned a function, not rank - for instance squad leader, platoon leader or company leader. Then you have special command training for these categories. You don't get automatically promoted - it's based on performance. So you can go 14 months and become a corporal or you can become a master sergeant, depending on your training and performance.

[theavonlady 2]

Rock the boat.

[brgnorway 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ April 10 2003,17:53)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (PitViper @ April 10 2003,17:42)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">You are given sergeant rank automatically at 14 months?  <span id='postcolor'>

No. First when you get drafted you have to pass a number of tests and you get assigned a function, not rank - for instance squad leader, platoon leader or company leader. Then you have special command training for these categories. You don't get automatically promoted  - it's based on performance. So you can go 14 months and become a corporal or you can become a master sergeant, depending on your training and performance.<span id='postcolor'>

Actually, I believe this is a good system. The knowledge embedded in junior officers are invaluable. A point proven a few years back when the norwegian military wanted to cut down costs and reduce the amount of conscript based junior officers and short term based contracts. Things did not turn out as expected and they soon revised the plans.

In Norway you can become a junior officers as a conscript after you have passed tests and examins after recruit school. Highest rank obtainable is seargant/pettymaster or rittmester (cavalry) and you'll keep that rank as an officer in the reserves too. You are however not qualified to more technical tasks but such as being a squadleader of artillery units etc. , but you will lead ordinary fighting squads etc. The other option is to apply for lower officers school which lasts a total of two years - one year at school and one as practising officer.

You can then go as far as being a captain (takes lots of years), but if you quit ofter those two years you'll be given the rank of a "fenrik" . If you want to go all the way you also have to go to military academy after lower officers school - which will take you another four years + practising years after that (minimum of 3 years) .

The norwegian military today tries to keep the experienced junior officers in the force as long as possible due to the valuable experience. The officers whom have served in peacekeeping operations are prefered.

[theavonlady 2]

Mardis Gra in Kirkuk.