ZIKAN 0 Posted March 25, 2003 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ Mar. 25 2003,15:33)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">If you are Iraqi and are not interested in politics then you have nothing to fear from Saddam. I<span id='postcolor'> Thats absurd. Do you think the common man in Iraq appreciates the fact that while Saddam lives in his Palaces and surrounds himself with the wealth of the country, but he can not provide adequate medicines and food for his people? And they are happy about his treatmeant of different ethnic groups? Carrying out attrocities in their name? Im sure the average Iraqi is to scared to speak out against the their head of state for fear of being shot or tortured by even just critisising the things we take for granted in our countries. But I can respect the fact they would defend their country from any invader, no matter who was in power. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bn880 5 Posted March 25, 2003 Okay, I think this is getting into politics, it was about war forecasting, but now it's politics. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PitViper 0 Posted March 25, 2003 Rumor has it that the GPS Jammers have been destroyed, ironically, by JDAM's heh Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theavonlady 2 Posted March 25, 2003 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ Mar. 25 2003,16:33)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Possibly, but I'm not at all sure that the average Iraqi citizen has the same view on Saddam that we have. While Saddam is known for his brutality against political dissidents he never displayed the forms of irrational paranoia that was evident in Romania and some other commuinist countries. If you are Iraqi and are not interested in politics then you have nothing to fear from Saddam.<span id='postcolor'> Two other factors to consider in the psyche of many Iraqis: 1. Sunnis, a major portion of the population, might tell you otherwise about Saddam's brutality. 2. There are over 4 million Iraqis living outside of Iraq because they either wanted or had to get out. I have no idea how many people they are related to and friends with that are still in Iraq but I would guess it's quite a large amount. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theavonlady 2 Posted March 25, 2003 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (PitViper @ Mar. 25 2003,17:02)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Rumor has it that the GPS Jammers have been destroyed, ironically, by JDAM's<span id='postcolor'> It would have been more ironic had they been destroyed by Russian made FROG missiles. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted March 25, 2003 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (PitViper @ Mar. 25 2003,16:02)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Rumor has it that the GPS Jammers have been destroyed, ironically, by JDAM's heh<span id='postcolor'> Any sources for that? I would find it very strange since it hasn't even been confirmed that they have them. The only thing we know is that USA suspects Iraqi dealings with the company that manufactures those jammer. I'd bet a € that your rumor is bs Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZIKAN 0 Posted March 25, 2003 Has anyone any idea of how to deal with Baghdad? How will the coalition deal with this issue? Any one with a cunning plan to help the coalition? OK I believe the aim is to kill or capture Saddam and his regime. We are guessing the majority of this regime is in Baghdad. I think if they can at least eradicate Saddam, then the resistance in the rest of the country will falter somewhat. If they can at least do the same to Baghdad as they have done to Basra and contain the city they might have a chance. The main problem is locating Saddam, maybe they already have him pinned down somewhere,(maybe they dont) Thats why the focus has always been to get to Baghdad, and seal it off to prevent people from leaving or entering and to seek intel from any snatch and grab ops they surely would implement once there. If he is there, I think the coalition may have some wacky plan to send some SF units to go get him, sure it would be a suicide mission, but to achieve the goal of getting Saddam would be worth it in the eyes of the coalition. I dont think you can wage a war in a city with 5 million inhabitants (+) against anyone backing Saddam. So the main aim IMO is contain Baghdad, then start the search... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted March 25, 2003 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (theavonlady @ Mar. 25 2003,16:12)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ Mar. 25 2003,16:33)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Possibly, but I'm not at all sure that the average Iraqi citizen has the same view on Saddam that we have. While Saddam is known for his brutality against political dissidents he never displayed the forms of irrational paranoia that was evident in Romania and some other commuinist countries. If you are Iraqi and are not interested in politics then you have nothing to fear from Saddam.<span id='postcolor'> Two other factors to consider in the psyche of many Iraqis: 1. Sunnis, a major portion of the population, might tell you otherwise about Saddam's brutality. 2. There are over 4 million Iraqis living outside of Iraq because they either wanted or had to get out. I have no idea how many people they are related to and friends with that are still in Iraq but I would guess it's quite a large amount.<span id='postcolor'> You mean Sh'ias. They are the majority Possibly, but Iraq is a socialist country so they oppress on a political, not relegious basis. Anyway, you might be right, but there is still a reason behind why thy are not greeting US forces as liberators. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shadow 6 Posted March 25, 2003 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Die Alive @ Mar. 25 2003,15:50)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Maybe the farmers are the ones who captured the pilots when they landed, and they're the ones given credit for the "kill"... But then again, so far I only see the chopper from one side, we don't see any pics or video footage from the other side of the chopper. -=Die Alive=-<span id='postcolor'> I saw video footage on the left, tail and front angles of the chopper. I've seen still pictures of right and rear-right angles. I could see absolutely no dents or holes. About the farmers shooting down the aircraft is 100% pure BS IMHO I support the theory on mechanical problems. Keep in mind that both the A- and D-model is designed to withstand damage in all critical areas with calibers up to 12.7 One Apache was hit in the engine with an RPG7 and it flew back to base with one engine. Crew unharmed. Anyway. That downed Longbow is no more. It was bombed by an airstrike during last night. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IsthatyouJohnWayne 0 Posted March 25, 2003 "Any sources for that?" http://www.reuters.com/newsArt....2444639 "but Iraq is a socialist country so they oppress on a political, not relegious basis." Thats not exactly true, Saddam has oppressed people on all kinds of basis but mainly opposition in any form to his rule. Iraq is a muslim country(even Saddam is a 'born again' muslim). And Ba'athism is a rather ideosyncratic(and discredited) form of 'socialism' blending nationalism, the greatness of the arab race, independance from the west and many other strands. On balance i would not really call iraq a socialist country so much as an autocracy with a distinct personality cult centred around Saddam. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FallenPaladin 0 Posted March 25, 2003 I just heared in the news that people fleeing from Iraq to Jordania are actually turning and coming back to Iraq to fight there. Well, if only a little of this is true, it could become interesting... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Othin 0 Posted March 25, 2003 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (bn880 @ Mar. 25 2003,06:05)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Denoir, their problem is they are not willing to destroy everything that's theirs and they think will be theirs soon again.  They are 100% confident they will defeat the coalition in Baghdad, which by  current examination they probably will.  <span id='postcolor'> Or possibly they're choosing not to follow orders that they know would hurt their fellow countrymen and women? Many of them are fighting in the areas that they're garrisoned in. There are a few other reasons as well, but I'll go with your favorite statement and say I'm not going to comment on it here... As far as your "examination" that they'll defeat the Coalition, whatever. You've proven your bias over and over again so I would hardley expect you to say anything different or even have an open mind. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bn880 5 Posted March 25, 2003 I am not actually biased, I am making decisions based on what I know and see. As for the examination, it is not only mine. Face it you can't handle the pressure of loss so you are attacking me personally. So far I have been 100% right about no real WMD capability and civilians being armed and civilians resisting. We will see how it all pans out, but you should think twice before questioning me my friend. MY BIAS IS I UNDERSTAND AND LEARN FROM HISTORY Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Badgerboy 0 Posted March 25, 2003 Looks like a F16 just fired on a Patriot site.... (Payback from the air) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bn880 5 Posted March 25, 2003 Can we get a source plz. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted March 25, 2003 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Othin @ Mar. 25 2003,16:41)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Or possibly they're choosing not to follow orders that they know would hurt their fellow countrymen and women? Â Many of them are fighting in the areas that they're garrisoned in. Â There are a few other reasons as well, but I'll go with your favorite statement and say I'm not going to comment on it here...<span id='postcolor'> Not very likely considering that they chose to fight at that location. Birdges can be rebuilt. They obviously chose to defend their country for one reasoun or another. The best way of doing that would have been blowing those bridges. </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">"Any sources for that?" http://www.reuters.com/newsArt....2444639<span id='postcolor'> Thanks! That's the first I heard of it and it's quite interesting if it's true. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jinef 2 Posted March 25, 2003 Bush is asking for $50 Billion to fund the war, what a knob. The Americans have run away from Basra fearing casualties, they are leaving it to the Brits. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted March 25, 2003 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Badgerboy @ Mar. 25 2003,16:59)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Looks like a F16 just fired on a Patriot site.... (Payback from the air)<span id='postcolor'> It's regular WW1 there From Manfred von Richthofen's (aka Red Baron - WW1 ace) book "Der Rote Kampfflieger" (published in 1917) </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I was entirely ignorant about the activities of our flying men, and I got tremendously excited whenever I saw an aviator. Of course I had not the slightest idea whether it was a German airman, or an enemy. I had at that time not even the knowledge that the German machines were marked with crosses and the enemy machines with circles. The consequence was that every aeroplane we saw was fired upon.<span id='postcolor'> Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bn880 5 Posted March 25, 2003 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Bush is asking for $50 Billion to fund the war, what a knob.<span id='postcolor'> I heard $75 Billion USD. 3B of that for rebuilding Iraq and humanitarian aid. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Badgerboy 0 Posted March 25, 2003 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Looks like a F16 just fired on a Patriot site.... (Payback from the air)<span id='postcolor'> This? It just came in on BBC. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Schoeler 0 Posted March 25, 2003 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (bn880 @ Mar. 25 2003,16:58)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I am not actually biased, I am making decisions based on what I know and see. Â As for the examination, it is not only mine. Â Face it you can't handle the pressure of loss so you are attacking me personally. So far I have been 100% right about no real WMD capability and civilians being armed and civilians resisting. Â We will see how it all pans out, but you should think twice before questioning me my friend. MY BIAS IS I UNDERSTAND AND LEARN FROM HISTORY <span id='postcolor'> LOL!!, yeah sure dude, believe what you want about some of your statements. Time will prove one or the other wrong. Just be prepared to have some of the things you've said shoved in your face if it turns out to be you. I'll do the same. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WhoCares 0 Posted March 25, 2003 btw: Does anybody know what happened to all the other divisions? Currently there is much talking about the 3 or 4 Rep. Guard Div.s around Baghdad. According to The Iraq Handbook(4.3MB PDF; Chap. Force Disposition) there were 23 active Divisions with ~250000men active in Sept. 2002, 13 (including 1 Rep. Guards Div.) in the north, 4 Rep. Guard Divs. around Baghdad and 6 in the south. I haven't heard about 70000 POWs or deads in south, so where are they? I can't believe that they just went home... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZIKAN 0 Posted March 25, 2003 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Jinef @ Mar. 25 2003,17:03)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Bush is asking for $50 Billion to fund the war, what a knob. The Americans have run away from Basra fearing casualties, they are leaving it to the Brits.<span id='postcolor'> Apparently its just been stated on the BBC news channel they may be planning to carry out some sort of operation to move into Basra tonight. If anything it shows alot of courage. The fact that the humanitarian situation in Basra is increasingly getting worse, may have forced this to happen now. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZIKAN 0 Posted March 25, 2003 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (WhoCares @ Mar. 25 2003,17:11)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">btw: Does anybody know what happened to all the other divisions? Currently there is much talking about the 3 or 4 Rep. Guard Div.s around Baghdad. According to The Iraq Handbook(4.3MB PDF; Chap. Force Disposition) Â there were 23 active Divisions with ~250000men active in Sept. 2002, 13 (including 1 Rep. Guards Div.) in the north, 4 Rep. Guard Divs. around Baghdad and 6 in the south. I haven't heard about 70000 POWs or deads in south, so where are they? I can't believe that they just went home...<span id='postcolor'> Apparently an Iraqi Division is not as we know it, its a lot smaller. Something in the region of 6000 in strength. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
