Us troops to enter phillipines combat.

[ralphwiggum 6]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (PitViper @ Feb. 21 2003,16:53)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Bush has widespread support and one of the highest approval ratings of any president.  The protesters are in a tiny minority.<span id='postcolor'>

and i'm pretty sure people's opinion that more than half think UN's approval is needed for war on iraq is fabricated, right? Bush's approval rating means one thing. he is handling political situation reasonably well, (expecially considering that he is subpar)

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">3. Regarding to what written above Pres. Bush is a practical dictator.<span id='postcolor'>

an outrageous and ludicrous statement that is in a fantasy world.<span id='postcolor'>

agree on that. Bush is more like a rich kid with good advisors from his parent's network.

back on topic:

Abu Syaff(?) kidnapped and killed american hostage before. and it seems like Phillipine gov't dones't mind US's help on capturing Abu Syaff. so should US just stay out of Phillipines and have Americans return decapitated once in awhile? I'm sure EU would pay for ransom.

[Llauma 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Oligo @ Feb. 21 2003,14:12)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Balschoiw @ Feb. 21 2003,13:41)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"> Are you seriouse ?<span id='postcolor'>

No I was not. I was being sarcastic. I'm one of those eurowimps.  <span id='postcolor'>

But the truth is that I have heard americans say exactly what you said in your post.

[FallenPaladin 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (PitViper @ Feb. 21 2003,16:47)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Would it please you to know that the U.S is planning a general withdrawal from Germany?  Any bets on who will cry more? Americans or German golddiggers and crooked salesmen who happily exploit our troops and take their money?<span id='postcolor'>

I can tell from my own experience and the US bases I came through in my own military time that the GIs had their seperate shops, cinemas, etc. on their own territory. Of course it`ll hurt some of our salesmans too, but our economy is already bad nowadays, so that a few less GIs buying german beer and bread won`t weight too much

Oh, and regarding the way the voting for the President takes place in the USA. I know that you have a complex model including your electors and that the number of the electors in a state is related to the number of seats a state has in the congress. And so on, the electors from a certain state form a slate of electors, etc. etc.

I know that Bush won with a fingerlength according to your rules, but he won not according to the majority of the voting citizen. That`s all I say. Just say it how it was and there`s no gripping point for me to criticize. But when someone comes and says: "Pres. Bush won, because the majority of the US citizen voted for him!", I say: "No, he didn`t won the elections because of the majority, etc. ..." I hope that made some of my critics clearer.  

And a few hints for my US friends, don`t believe anything you learn over there in the USA. When friends of mine were on a school exchange to the USA, in uuuuhm... 1996 maybe, they were quite shocked when they came back. They told me, that you over there believed we had no electricity and warm water over here in Germany. Also they said, that the students on the school over there believed that pizza was an american invention  

Because you are in the USA you aren`t the wisest people on this planet and you aren`t the sum of all knowledge either. We all have the same mistakes and lacks of knowledge, but it`s dangerous for the USA to think of itself as something better than the rest of the world. That`s why most of the world, especially the arabic countries, are very sceptic on US behaviour or even dislike/hate the USA.

[canukausiuka 1]

I wouldn't worry too much about the ignorance of some of my fellow Americans... I live in Mississippi, which is often thought of as the ass of the US, so people elsewhere tend to assume that I'm a stupid redneck who probably lives in a shack with dirt floors and that I quit school at age 10.

Naturally this isn't the case, but it's a fact that there are a lot of ignorant people out there.  I'd blame the educational system myself (my World history teacher was horrible... I don't even want to think about how bad he'd embarrass my country if he had contact with foreigners!  I'm glad I knew better than to accept what he said, but some of my peers, well, they don't stop to think about it   and you can see where that leads).  I'm sure Germany, or any other nation for that matter, is the same.

As for me, I have a few issues with what Bush is doing, but I still believe he is our legitimate president, and he's doing a decent job.  Yes, he's screwing something terrible w/ our foreign policy, but then again I'm glad he's taking a stand and sticking with it (kudos to Germany for doing the same... too bad we couldn't have agreed first, lol).  The real test of his presidency, though, is not international opinion, protestors, approval ratings, or whiners   , but the next presidential election.

And back on topic, I think that the decision to increase involvement in the Phillipines is a good thing.  That is, as long as the Phillipine government wants us there (if they don't, I agree, we have no right to be there, except in extremely dire situations, which this is not).  I only have one concern, and that is us taking over the situation.  I don't want to see this becoming the US trying to fight these terrorists alone, the Phillipines should still be responsible for that, but should be fighting alongside our troops.

[Othin 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (FallenPaladin @ Feb. 21 2003,01:51)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><span id='postcolor'>

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Depends only on your point of view. It`s a fact that after Ground Zero the US military bases are spreading like cancer all over the world.<span id='postcolor'>

Really? Care to prove that? If anything the opposite is true, as we're looking into reducing our troops in Germany and South Korea. I know that the possibility of troops in Eastern Europe is being discussed, but that is at the bequest of the countries involved. Our role in Qatar is expanding as it equally declines in Saudi Arabia.

As far as your later comment saying that it wouldn't effect the economy of Germany if the U.S. pulled out, then you are seriously misinformed. Just ask any community in the U.S. that has had a base closing. It is a severe economic impact. Add in the fact that Germany charges all sorts of "extras" for training spaces, corridors, etc and you have a sizeable impact on a faltering economy.

I'd be willing to be there would be an equal economic impact in South Korea. The real worry there would be to their own National Security.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">And there are indeed paralleles to the roman empiric policy when you watch the US foreign policy nowadays. The only problem is that half of the world just doesn`t like the way of McDonalds.<span id='postcolor'>

Seems like the new fad is to compare the U.S. with the Holy Roman Empire. There are far more differences then parrallels, and in the next election or the one after that you'll have a whole new foreign policy, just as you had with this new administration.

As an aside here, I don't like the fact that our foreign policy has been so schizophrenic (sp?) the last decade and a half. It is something you're going to encounter when you have such radically different administrations though. I wonder if our foriegn policy would be better handled if the President couldn't directly effect it? That's neither here nor there though...

I'd also disagree with your surmation that half the world dosen't like the "way of McDonalds". As a cultural exporter, no country has ever had more of an impact. I agree that many people don't like it crammed down their throat, but at the same time their fellow countrymen/women are enjoying a refreshing McShake

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Coming back to US troops helping the phillipine fighting the Abu Sayyaf. Sounds nice, but it will end up as follows: It won`t be possible to defeat all of the guerillas and the ambushs and rebell assaults will go on. Permanent US military bases will be the result. <span id='postcolor'>

Seems you missed a paragraph in that article, so I'll quote it here for you. </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">American officials suggested that the American track record in the Philippines in recent months might help overcome Philippine skepticism. By leaving on schedule and honoring the restrictions on accompanying combat patrols, the United States assuaged many fears that the training mission last year on Basilan would turn into a permanent American encampment. Since then, smaller numbers of advisers have been in the Philippines on training missions. <span id='postcolor'>

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Now my point of view:

1. Bush didn`t get the most votes.

2. In the USA the power is just wielded by a small group of rich guys looking after their own interests. The majority is against the bush policy if you have a look at all the protests that take place right now. Demonstrations on the street or criticism from senators in the senate. But Pres. Bush goes his way.

3. Regarding to what written above Pres. Bush is a practical dictator.

4. Right now the US is lead by the Bush dynasty which systematically destroys all the international relationships which were founded in years of hard work before. Under Bush there would`ve been no end to the cold war and no falling of the wall in Germany.

<span id='postcolor'>

1. That is still up for debate.

2. Like it or not the protestors are a minority.

3. Lets see, the protestors are still alive, newspapers are still printing editorials slamming Bush (or his administration), and I have free access to the internet so I would have to say you're wrong. And I could care less about people's views on the Patriot Acts. There is more to that then I'd care to "chat" about here. I think a tamer version will ultimately come out.

4. Having two people in a family get elected as President is hardly a dynasty. Their family is active in politics, there is nothing wrong with that. As far as your accusations at the end, those are baseless and there is no way to prove them either way. Reagan was popular internationally only in hindsight.

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (PitViper @ Feb. 21 2003,16:47)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Would it please you to know that the U.S is planning a general withdrawal from Germany?  Any bets on who will cry more? Americans or German golddiggers and crooked salesmen who happily exploit our troops and take their money?<span id='postcolor'>

I would put my money on the Americans. I think really USA shot itself in the foot with the threat of removing the bases. USA needs those bases. They are the logistical and operational foundation for the American strategic deployment in Europe, the Near and Middle East, the horn of Africa and Central Asia. Germany has no need of US bases on its territory.

[Balschoiw 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Germany has no need of US bases on its territory.<span id='postcolor'>

That´s a funny thing. The US said they possibly would decrease their forces in germany. We said : "You´re welcome." Than they said: "Wait a minute. We have to rethink it."

It was a foul argument to put pressure on germany and it didnt work. US needs the german bases at the moment. It is the central european main logistical adress at the moment and it will take the US some years to build alternatives in different countries. Go for it. It´s not only that germany has always been a safe harbour for US forces. There is friendship with US troops here in germany unlike to other european countries and we ever assistet them in multiple ways. If you got a better alternative, go for it.

[Blake 0]

I don't think Russia/CIS would be too happy to have relocated Ramstein-sized monster NATO base near their borders. Maybe this whole base moving thing was just some political saber-rattling after US was annoyed by Germany's stance on Iraq.

[FSPilot 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (FallenPaladin @ Feb. 21 2003,16:36)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><span id='postcolor'>

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">1. Bush didn`t get the most votes.<span id='postcolor'>

Yes he did.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">2. In the USA the power is just wielded by a small group of rich guys looking after their own interests. The majority is against the bush policy if you have a look at all the protests that take place right now. Demonstrations on the street or criticism from senators in the senate. But Pres. Bush goes his way.<span id='postcolor'>

Those demonstrations were against the war in Iraq, not Bush's foreign policy.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">3. Regarding to what written above Pres. Bush is a practical dictator.<span id='postcolor'>

No, considering A) he was elected, and B) he has to go through a senate to get anything done.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">4. Right now the US is lead by the Bush dynasty which systematically destroys all the international relationships which were founded in years of hard work before. Under Bush there would`ve been no end to the cold war and no falling of the wall in Germany.<span id='postcolor'>

Yeah, we need to get back in our relationship with NK so we can keep giving them nukes.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The main problem when saying something against the US foreign policy is that suddenly all the US americans feel like getting trampled on their nuts, even if they dislike the Bush policy too. If you all idenitify yourself with your President because of too much national pride it`s your problem if you feel insulted any time I or someone else criticize him. <span id='postcolor'>

I don't really feel insulted, but I'm still going to argue with you if you criticize anything I support. Then again, if you criticized president Clinton I'd be right behind you.

[DarkLight 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (FSPilot @ Feb. 21 2003,16:22)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The main problem when saying something against the US foreign policy is that suddenly all the US americans feel like getting trampled on their nuts, even if they dislike the Bush policy too. If you all idenitify yourself with your President because of too much national pride it`s your problem if you feel insulted any time I or someone else criticize him. <span id='postcolor'>

I don't really feel insulted, but I'm still going to argue with you if you criticize anything I support.  Then again, if you criticized president Clinton I'd be right behind you.<span id='postcolor'>

Uhm, so what you are saying is that you wouldn't support CLinton if he wanted to attack Iraq, but now you are supporting Bush, right?

So basically you don't care about war just about who wants to start one?

[theavonlady 2]

Well, this particular thread turned out to be a false positive.

In related news, one of the head Abu Sayef terrorist leaders has been confirmed killed in a battle with Phillipine troops last Wednesday.

I've only seen the AP video (can't post link acccording to forum rules) and no worded articles found yet.

[theavonlady 2]

Things are heating up again:

S. Philippines Airport Blast Kills 17

[Necromancer- 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Oligo @ Feb. 21 2003,11:13)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">You eurowimps make me sick. You're always whining, looking the gift-horse into the mouth.  <span id='postcolor'>

I totally agree...

If all the EU members including the UK combine all their military power together then we would be more powerfull than the USA..

We, the Europeans, should unite more and stand as 1 entity capable of doing things our own.

[VXR 9]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (PitViper @ Feb. 21 2003,16:47)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (FallenPaladin @ Feb. 21 2003,05<!--emo&)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (theavonlady @ Feb. 21 2003,10:59)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Amazing how you injected the word "cancer" in there. Did these bases pop up unexpeted and without the local authority's approval or to their detrement, similar to "cancer"?<span id='postcolor'>

I just found no better english word/expression. The US bases pop up this way: First the US government offers another country help, gives some and finally stays permanently in that country with it`s military bases. No matter if still needed or not.<span id='postcolor'>

Would it please you to know that the U.S is planning a general withdrawal from Germany?  Any bets on who will cry more? Americans or German golddiggers and crooked salesmen who happily exploit our troops and take their money?<span id='postcolor'>

lol enoug emty bases in The Netherlands

[WhoCares 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Vixer @ Mar. 05 2003,15:59)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">lol enoug emty bases in The Netherlands  <span id='postcolor'>

Over here in Germany we have more use for this locations. e.g. Zweibruecken Airbase became an Outlet Center (my unit was involved in removing some fortifications over there

Hahn Airbase is now a civilian airport, mainly used for cargo and some low-cost airlines (e.g. RyanAir).

But I am sure, USA would miss Rammstein Airbase (biggest Airbase outside USA, iirc) and Miesau (biggest ammo depot in europe, iirc; some of my unit were there making inventory listings)

[VXR 9]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (WhoCares @ Mar. 05 2003,16:23)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Vixer @ Mar. 05 2003,15:59)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">lol enoug emty bases in The Netherlands  <span id='postcolor'>

Over here in Germany we have more use for this locations. e.g. Zweibruecken Airbase became an Outlet Center (my unit was involved in removing some fortifications over there

Hahn Airbase is now a civilian airport, mainly used for cargo and some low-cost airlines (e.g. RyanAir).

But I am sure, USA would miss Rammstein Airbase (biggest Airbase outside USA, iirc) and Miesau (biggest ammo depot in europe, iirc; some of my unit were there making inventory listings)<span id='postcolor'>

yeah it would be bad if the US moves out of Germany, Dutch Apaches train alot in germany