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pognivet

does this game even work yet?

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i bought it on launch expecting, or hoping, for the best. havent been able to play on any server for more than 15 minutes since. half the server gets kicked randomly. everyone has this same problem, yet all i see are worthless "comrads" and "dev updates" and no patches that actually fix this problem even though its been a month and a half. since they've stated they'll only support the game for one year i wonder for how long i will realistically be able to play the game, assuming at this pace they maybe partially rectify this problem in another month and a half. an entire quarter of the so-called "development cycle" gone.

 

i would refund it if i could because i now feel like ive been scammed, but i thought it was a temporary problem and went over the 2 hour refund limit on steam irrationally trusting in bohemia's competence and ignoring the sagas of take on x, y lands, arma tactics or argo.

 

to ignore or be unable to fix such a major issue for so long, one that makes the entire game unplayable in any way (since it is multiplayer-only for all intents and purposes), does not bode well for the future. the graphics are nice, everything else is awful.

 

if arma 4 is like this in any regard (not just the multiplayer but the abysmal ballistics, rpg rounds disappearing in mid-air, brain-dead unity shovelware-level ai) i think i see myself continuing with arma 3 for many years after its release, as i and many others did with arma 2 when arma 3 was first released. i could really give less of a shit about what the water textures look like or the lighting.

 

supposedly this was to be an alpha or a beta or whatever you want to call it "test" to get feedback from players to develop arma 4. the community consensus is this: it does not fucking work. despite this it seems this "feedback" they supposedly craved has fallen on deaf ears and i'm beginning to think that this was more motivated by a need to shore up some of their debts from past experimental failures even though they already have government grants from their own country and government contracts with mine where they overcharge bureaucrats too lazy to do an audit in order to rob us of taxpayer money, as many others do.

 

what a joke.

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1 hour ago, pognivet said:

supposedly this was to be an alpha or a beta or whatever you want to call it "test" to get feedback from players to develop arma 4. the community consensus is this: it does not fucking work. despite this it seems this "feedback" they supposedly craved has fallen on deaf ears

 

Or maybe, the devs are "just" having trouble fixing it.

I mean, what's your point here? I get that those technical issues are frustrating, disappointing even, but why would you jump in the conspiracy scammy wagon? If you go through with your logic, Reforger being just a cash-grab while being presented as a test bed for Arma 4 would be detrimental to the series and effectively kill any hype for future games. It doesn't make any sense from a business point of view.

 

In retrospect, my only grip with Reforger is the price : for a test bed that only offers MP content (and as such is 100% dependent on connectivity), it is way too expensive - it was pretty much a given that it wouldn't "work" right away, IMO.

That, and how "Early Access" has shaped the videogame landscape : maybe a prior closed alpha/beta, like it was done back in the days, would have been preferable, but that's a broader debate that concerns the whole industry.

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 Everything was made clear before purchase (unlike some other studios): $30 Test bed, 12 month updates, do your own research. If that is your cup of tea go ahead. Many have chosen to purchase. Argue about the price a bit high definitely. But there should be no complaints only suggestions as all risks have been laid out before hand thankfully. After an unfinished DayZ this is BI's last straw for alpha purchase. We will see what happens but it looks solid from here on out. Test bed, things will break, read before you buy, jump in or not. It was all laid out in writing before you clicked the purchase button. It's pretty Da*n good as it is although a thousand things could be improved upon. I've seen increasing player counts every week.  I can see the potential it is very tasty, and if it flowers they will get my dollar. Otherwise I will give my dollar elsewhere. A lot of competition out there.

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There are fundamental issues for sure. When it works it works great. However several patches in and still the connection issues are plaguing it hard. I get it it's EA but the disconnections are so frustrating. At least the gam doesn't crash for me. I was hoping today's patch would have finally given us the stability we have been waiting for so we can try to break the game in other ways. Sadly no opportunity.

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it says it's a preview ... it's written big. we have 11 months, in the end you may be dissatisfied with the final product. now you don't have the right to be

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14 hours ago, Joshua Diener said:

 Everything was made clear before purchase (unlike some other studios): $30 Test bed, 12 month updates, do your own research. If that is your cup of tea go ahead. Many have chosen to purchase. Argue about the price a bit high definitely. But there should be no complaints only suggestions as all risks have been laid out before hand thankfully. After an unfinished DayZ this is BI's last straw for alpha purchase. We will see what happens but it looks solid from here on out. Test bed, things will break, read before you buy, jump in or not. It was all laid out in writing before you clicked the purchase button. It's pretty Da*n good as it is although a thousand things could be improved upon. I've seen increasing player counts every week.  I can see the potential it is very tasty, and if it flowers they will get my dollar. Otherwise I will give my dollar elsewhere. A lot of competition out there.

 

I would agree EXCEPT they really had no business listing SinglePlayer as a game aspect on Steam. That would be the equivalent of Farcry releasing a game saying Singleplayer and then just giving you an Editor - and one that not even the Devs themselves have made 1 successful SinglePlayer mission - something that can be done in less than 1 minute in Arma3's editor. Theres alot i like about the concepts of Reforger in terms of the future of the series -and im ok with just supporting the future of Arma 4- but that was disingenuous adverstising.

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On 6/29/2022 at 10:14 AM, pognivet said:

i bought it on launch expecting, or hoping, for the best. havent been able to play on any server for more than 15 minutes since. half the server gets kicked randomly. everyone has this same problem

 

20 hours ago, Joshua Diener said:

Argue about the price a bit high definitely. But there should be no complaints only suggestions as all risks have been laid out before hand thankfully.

What?

 

 

21 hours ago, haleks said:

I mean, what's your point here? I get that those technical issues are frustrating, disappointing even, but why would you jump in the conspiracy scammy wagon? If you go through with your logic, Reforger being just a cash-grab while being presented as a test bed for Arma 4 would be detrimental to the series and effectively kill any hype for future games.

This is kind of a thing with BI though, isn't it. Not cash grabs but releasing broken stuff and killing momentum for the project. Arma 2 (especially German release... but OK, difficult time), Old Man and other game modes, Reforger.

 

Earlier this year, Eugen released Warno and servers were so broken that at some point Red Dragon also went down. Battlefield 2042, dead on arrival, albeit for a lot of other issues as well.

 

21 hours ago, haleks said:

It doesn't make any sense from a business point of view.

In the nostalgia stream last month that had this inked marketing guy, because of course, saying how they want to expand the Bohemia and Arma brand, etc. Now I dunno what is going on in their meetings, how strapped they are for resources and whatnot but are we still learning nothing from our own history on these very forums and other companies that killed their projects just a couple of months ago?

When you launch a product, you're supposed to go in on all fronts at once to create and keep momentum and yet there wasn't even a forum entry. So what does even make sense anymore business wise?

 

Look, no one expected things to be perfect, people put up with a lot for things they care about but we are talking about basic functionality here. If you cannot play, then what are you supposed to do, look how pretty the desktop icon is? And before light bulb turns, not everyone is interested in creating something in editor or workbench. That's not playing a game.

Therefore, is basic functionality really to much to ask for? Could this really not have been ironed out or at least way better prepared for before release?

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Still doesnt for me. Virtually every server I join crashed my game before I even finish loading in. 

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On 6/29/2022 at 8:07 AM, Joshua Diener said:

 Everything was made clear before purchase (unlike some other studios): $30 Test bed, 12 month updates, do your own research. If that is your cup of tea go ahead. Many have chosen to purchase. Argue about the price a bit high definitely. But there should be no complaints only suggestions as all risks have been laid out before hand thankfully. After an unfinished DayZ this is BI's last straw for alpha purchase. We will see what happens but it looks solid from here on out. Test bed, things will break, read before you buy, jump in or not. It was all laid out in writing before you clicked the purchase button. It's pretty Da*n good as it is although a thousand things could be improved upon. I've seen increasing player counts every week.  I can see the potential it is very tasty, and if it flowers they will get my dollar. Otherwise I will give my dollar elsewhere. A lot of competition out there.

Definitely buyers remorse, still doesn't excuse the fact people had to accept terms before purchase, and yet here we are. I think the biggest issue is BI's network infrastructure, it's never been the best, and some innovation is definitely needed in that respect. Other than that Reforger is neat, good amount of mods coming and more to come, I think it's definitely worth leaning more on discussions related to how BI can solve the issues for Arma 4, after all that was he point of this game.

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On 6/30/2022 at 10:06 AM, Janez said:

Look, no one expected things to be perfect, people put up with a lot for things they care about but we are talking about basic functionality here. If you cannot play, then what are you supposed to do, look how pretty the desktop icon is? And before light bulb turns, not everyone is interested in creating something in editor or workbench. That's not playing a game.

Therefore, is basic functionality really to much to ask for? Could this really not have been ironed out or at least way better prepared for before release?

 

I can only agree with you there...

Almost 2 months after release, Reforger isn't exactly exciting the crowds - and I can see a couple reasons for that.

 

Obviously, Reforger is meant to help developing a solid MP environment, so much so that it has only one PvP mode to offer. At first glance, it does make sense to focus first on the most challenging aspect of the game(s) - but Arma always worked best as a PvE game IMO. Which of course isn't a viable option at the moment since the AI isn't finished... And that's a first mistake : we end up with a PvP focused game for a player base that has no interest in it; add the expected network issues on top of that, and you're in a bad place already.

And the second mistake, I think : BI underestimated the difficulties/interest to produce mods for a WIP/unfinished platform. The strong MP focus combined with incomplete features limits what can be done in terms of mission creation or mods (or, to be more precise, it puts a lot of additional work on the hands of modders) : right now, the modding scene simply can't be as invested in Reforger modding as in Arma 3. We're all waiting on key features to be complete before doing so, basically...

 

And there you have the conundrum that is killing Reforger : the tech demo is too limited to appeal to the usual player base, and too limited for modders to produce anything meaningful. My biggest concern is that this situation may be a limiting factor regarding feedback; if there's nobody to play, you end up with an incomplete picture of your project and where it should go.

 

I've rarely seen such a weird reaction about an early access game : the official forum is pretty much dead, Steam discussions are as toxic as they can be, and most of the (technical) discussions happen on discord, a platform ill-suited for information/knowledge sharing. Which does illustrate my point, I guess; the only positive and meaningful interactions come from a minority of programmers that are happy to casually explore and make sense of Reforger - I'm not sure a controversial EA release with a 30$ price tag was necessary to get there...

 

I reckon Reforger would be in a very different place, had it been delayed by a few months, and released in a more "tinker-ready" state.

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On 7/9/2022 at 12:46 AM, haleks said:

At first glance, it does make sense to focus first on the most challenging aspect of the game(s) - but Arma always worked best as a PvE game IMO. Which of course isn't a viable option at the moment since the AI isn't finished... And that's a first mistake : we end up with a PvP focused game for a player base that has no interest in it; add the expected network issues on top of that, and you're in a bad place already. 

And the second mistake, I think : BI underestimated the difficulties/interest to produce mods for a WIP/unfinished platform. The strong MP focus combined with incomplete features limits what can be done in terms of mission creation or mods (or, to be more precise, it puts a lot of additional work on the hands of modders) : right now, the modding scene simply can't be as invested in Reforger modding as in Arma 3. We're all waiting on key features to be complete before doing so, basically... 

 

Sums up the current situation pretty damn well.

 

since arma's orginal release (and even before that with cold war crisis which i still have the discs for) i played maybe 1 pvp game. But thousands of hours of co-op and mod based SP. 

 

quick fix?

 

A co-op savable CTI would help right off the bat so i can progress across the island over time in different sessions and have mates join me in the fights. That'd be nice as right now the progress is lost over and over which makes playing feel pointless after a while.

 

the maybe better but more tricky solution would be looking at the ALIVE mod for arma3 and being inspired by some of that functionality to dynamically and procedurally bring the core game a lot more to life.

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