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mickeymen

Question about elementary light physics (obstacles for light)

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Good day!

I am writing in this thread, because I see that some work is underway with the light in the game (Game update - 2.06) and I want the BIS developers to see this.

Today I received update 2.06. and read about some updates on the light (Added: Volumetric light cones (similar as on vehicles) to flashlights)

I'm not sure if I understood this update correctly, because visually, I could not see any differences in any flashlights.

 

I had a question that I think is important for the Arma3 community.

Today any light in the arma3 will shine through walls and houses, betraying its owner!

 

This does not take into account large physical objects at all and it makes me very upset. Moreover, the problem will be for both flashlights and vehicles.

 

Example 1:

36135997_m.jpg

 

Example 2:

36136017_m.jpg

 

Also, if light hits the wall from inside the building, it light hit will be visible on the outside of the building!

 

Example3:

36136030_m.jpg

 

All this creates a hellish confusion for the player, regarding the light sources! This makes it impossible to create adequate flashlight mission in an urban environment.
Unfortunatelly the light physic in arma3 looks looks silly and not realistic.
I would like to know - the solution to this question is impossible?

 

In Arma3, impossible create shadow LODS that can take into account (will blocks) a light of flashlight or vehicles headlights.

B.I.S. please give your attention to this issue or inform the community about the impossibility to do anything...

 

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14 minutes ago, SzepyCZ said:

If i remember it right lights worked "correctly" in A3 alpha, not sure why it was changed(but i bet it was performance).

 

https://feedback.bistudio.com/T77231

Very interesting. Some of the lights really looked better in the Alpha. However, light shining through objects has always been the case as far as I remember.

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12 minutes ago, SzepyCZ said:

If i remember it right lights worked "correctly" in A3 alpha, not sure why it was changed(but i bet it was performance).

 

https://feedback.bistudio.com/T77231

 

 

yet our themes seem a little different. You are talking about the glowing lamps and lanterns themselves, about their flicker and textures. But I'm try talking about the obstruction of light by physical objects

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1 hour ago, mickeymen said:

Good day!

I am writing in this thread, because I see that some work is underway with the light in the game (Game update - 2.06) and I want the BIS developers to see this.

 Today I received update 2.06. and read about some updates on the light (Added: Volumetric light cones (similar as on vehicles) to flashlights)

 I'm not sure if I understood this update correctly, because visually, I could not see any differences in any flashlights.

  

I had a question that I think is important for the Arma3 community.

This raises an important question for me. Today any light in the arma3 will shine through walls and houses, betraying its owner!

 

This does not take into account large physical objects at all and it makes me very upset. Moreover, the problem will be for both flashlights and vehicles.

 

Also, if light hits the wall from inside the building, it light hit will be visible on the outside of the building!

 

All this creates a hellish confusion for the player, regarding the light sources! This makes it impossible to create a flashlight mission in an urban environment.
Unfortunatelly the light physic in arma3 looks looks silly and not realistic.
I would like to know - the solution to this question is impossible?

 

In Arma3, impossible create shadow LODS that can take into account (will blocks) a light of flashlight or vehicles headlights.

 B.I.S. please give your attention to this issue or inform the community about the impossibility to do anything...

  

This has nothing to do with any light changes implemented during A3 lifetime, nor anything in relation to 2.06 game update and the volumetric light cones.

 

There only 2 light sources that do cast shadows (the sun and the moon). No shadow = light passing through the objects, despite the object having a proper SVLod

 

There is not even defered shading/lighting in RV engine, and i honestly doubt there can be anything done about it at this current stage

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deferred_shading#Advantages

 

 

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50 minutes ago, PuFu said:

This has nothing to do with any light changes implemented during A3 lifetime, nor anything in relation to 2.06 game update and the volumetric light cones.

Then maybe you can tell us what the light cones have to do. What is their meaning if visually the light has not changed in any way?

 

50 minutes ago, PuFu said:

There only 2 light sources that do cast shadows (the sun and the moon). No shadow = light passing through the objects, despite the object having a proper SVLod

 

There is not even defered shading/lighting in RV engine, and i honestly doubt there can be anything done about it at this current stage

Thank you for this information, but I still hope that the situation is not hopeless and that, I hope if desired, some changes could be made to the Arma3 engine in order to somehow mitigate this problem.

If you take as an example, then the lasers mounted on rifles are perfectly blocked by obstacles in their path. Thus, lasers have no problem with this, and it would probably be possible to create blocking of light using their example.

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On 10/5/2021 at 8:35 PM, mickeymen said:

Then maybe you can tell us what the light cones have to do. What is their meaning if visually the light has not changed in any way?

It means exactly what it says = Added: Volumetric light cones (similar as on vehicles) to flashlights

https://dev.arma3.com/post/spotrep-00100

 

 

opGoECv.jpg

Here;s a screenshot. You can see the cone of light around the flashlight "muzzle". Nothing more or less. Light still behave exactly the same way.

 

On 10/5/2021 at 8:35 PM, mickeymen said:

Thank you for this information, but I still hope that the situation is not hopeless and that, I hope if desired, some changes could be made to the Arma3 engine in order to somehow mitigate this problem.

Very very unlikely considering

1. it needs deep under the hood changes directly into the core engine

2. Arma3 has reached end of life support = not enough people to make such dramatic changes that could potentially impact the entire game (possible break down things)

 

There have been discussion on these very forums 8 year ago about the same topic. There were more discussion at the time of the lighting changes that occurred 2 years or so post-game-release. 

Nothing changed during these 8 years, it is very very unlikely for such changes to happen now.

 

On 10/5/2021 at 8:35 PM, mickeymen said:

If you take as an example, then the lasers mounted on rifles are perfectly blocked by obstacles in their path. Thus, lasers have no problem with this, and it would probably be possible to create blocking of light using their example.

Lasers are not actually lights in this game, but very long objects. They do not affect shaders/materials whatsoever, so there is no comparison to be made.

 

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2 hours ago, PuFu said:

It means exactly what it says. Here;s a screenshot. You can see the cone of light around the flashlight "muzzle". Nothing more or less. Light still behave exactly the same way.

Thank you more for your efforts (screenshot and description), but I don't see any significant difference between what happened and how it becomes with a cone. I think , visually it's the same.

 

2 hours ago, PuFu said:

Very very unlikely considering

1. it needs deep under the hood changes directly into the core engine

2. Arma3 has reached end of life support = not enough people to make such dramatic changes that could potentially impact the entire game (possible break down things)

I am sad from such a thought, the end of the life of our favorite game...

but someone nevertheless made a modification of the light which is mentioned in Spotrep. 

I hope it can still happen... Maybe via mods?

 

2 hours ago, PuFu said:

Lasers are not actually lights in this game, but very long objects. 

that's what I meant. They can make light as long physical object - light cone with Poligonal Mesh for the sensitivity of obstacles, which allow to turn it off/on on objects where it hit (as it works for lasers) or some other tricks/

After all, creating shadows from light is not an alien technology. Even the old batlefield3 doesn't have flashlights shining through walls and stone fences.

 

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1 hour ago, mickeymen said:

I hope it can still happen... Maybe via mods?

 

To reiterate/reinforce what @PuFu said, making engine-level changes at this point in the life of RV is a non-starter. 

 

As far as lights go, A3 is fundamentally the same game it has always been (since Beta, anyway). You have created a problem where one does not exist. Or rather, have now decided that a problem we've always tolerated is now intolerable.

 

Thinking about it isn't worth the stress.

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8 hours ago, mickeymen said:

Thank you more for your efforts (screenshot and description), but I don't see any significant difference between what happened and how it becomes with a cone. I think , visually it's the same.

prior to 2.06, weapon accessories did not produce light cones, similar to how vehicle didn't either prior to the massive light changes i have previously mentioned = you can check with the legacy branch if you want to...

 

Quote

I hope it can still happen... Maybe via mods?

That is NOT possible.

 

Quote

that's what I meant. They can make light as long physical object - light cone with Poligonal Mesh for the sensitivity of obstacles, which allow to turn it off/on on objects where it hit (as it works for lasers) or some other tricks/

not possible, hardcoded. for the second time, even if that would work in theory (but it doesn’t btw)it would also not cast any lights whatsoever.

 

Quote

After all, creating shadows from light is not an alien technology. Even the old batlefield3 doesn't have flashlights shining through walls and stone fences.

You realized this issue about 8 years to late, but again, for the Nth time, the chances are less than slim considering it would require deep engine changes and the fact that the game is barely maintained by a handfull of people who are doing their very best to improve certain things and also squash some remaining bugs

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Posted (edited)
On 10/7/2021 at 4:51 PM, Harzach said:

You have now decided that a problem we've always tolerated is now intolerable

 

On 10/7/2021 at 10:37 PM, PuFu said:

You realized this issue about 8 years to late, but again,

No, I have not realized the problem now, after 8 years.

I've always seen that the lights in Arma work strangely, but before, I was just like you, it didn't really bother me because the vanilla flashlights (which mounted on the weapon) in Arma3 are very dim and have a short range.

But as soon as I started using this mod https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2218330498

which has great long-range flashlights, I felt the problem more acutely.

This mod has lovely flashlights, try this mod!

Once you understand how these flashlights work, you will want to get your hands on the solution to the light problem in Arma3 more decisively.

I started using this mod recently.  These lights open up new night gameplay for Arma3, but unfortunately the in-game light physics absence partically breaks that down.

I created a ticket on the feedback forum, please support it, if you do not like how the light of flashlights and headlights in arma3 works.

 

PS:  now I saw that the ticket is closed, with the status "Won't Fix", I'm sorry... 

 

Good luck everyone and thanks for the discussion!

 

 

Edited by mickeymen
correction of language errors

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38 minutes ago, mickeymen said:

These lights open up new night gameplay for Arma3, but unfortunately the in-game light physics partically breaks that down.

as explained before, it has nothing to do with light "physics", there are ways to have dynamic lights in game engines, but that would ideally be in from the release, otherwise it would require a lot of changes that could potentially break other stuff.

The lack of shadows is also obvious with lamp posts, headlights etc

 

38 minutes ago, mickeymen said:

 I created a ticket on the feedback forum

PS:  now I saw that the ticket is closed, with the status "Won't Fix", I'm sorry... 

it was expected.

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