Statement Regarding CSLA Iron Curtain

[Nillers 433]

Over the past week, we have been actively monitoring the responses from the community to the recent release of Arma 3 Creator DLC: CSLA Iron Curtain and we want to address your remarks.

 

The Creator DLC program gives independent creators a chance to get their quality content published by us. That way it can be enjoyed by the community, and the creators can be rewarded for their hard work. Every Creator DLC project is very different, making this a unique challenge to get right. We still very much believe in the goals of the program. We have learned from all releases and are thankful for all pioneering teams working with us so far. We continue to try to improve, but there is still room to do better.

 

We recognize that we did not do enough to ensure the appropriate quality of this particular Creator DLC.

 

We have decided to offer no-questions-asked refunds for Arma 3 Creator DLC: CSLA Iron Curtain via Steam until July 30, 2021.

 

We would also like to remind you about the Steam Workshop Compatibility Data for Non-Owners, which can be used to preview most of CSLA Iron Curtain's assets. This way you can try the Creator DLC for yourself and make an informed decision on whether it is right for you. This does not change our commitment to delivering quality products and we will continue to work with CSLA Studio on resolving as many issues as possible.

 

Thank you to everyone who took the time to provide their feedback.

[robdisco82 3]

Its like this i enjoyed it and everything that you do for us its the few that give the rest of us a bad name and I for one am a individual to the rest in response to keeping it because i actually love it but i am but an individual. And the fact that you are willing to refund says alot about you all as a company and i fell compelled to let you guys know that you are awesome humans and i wish that all companies would strive to be a quantum speck of what you are over the last ten years look at what your approach to the community has bought us all its amazing and please if you want to stay cult fav. never change who you are in fact dive deeper into the community staying close to the people who buy your work is the blue print to a genre of success few know and few venture towards you can be that company thanks again.

[redarmy 422]

This is why i love Arma as a platform.That platform is only every going to be as sturdy as its developers.

 

Good call BIS,you did the right the thing here.I never purchased CSLA but if you follow through and bring it up to quality levels i may in the future.

[tacticalchubz 32]

Although I was disappointed with the quality upon release, I won't be refunding as I have faith in the team to resolve the issues. Thank you for the work you guys do

[-Joe- 101]

This is a step in the right direction - however, it does raise serious questions about what went on in the way of BIs quality assurance for the CDLC and why so many obvious issues slipped through. Given at least one BI staff member actively stated on the ARMA Discord that they'd been warned that the testing team didn't believe it was at an acceptable level to release and the community would "eat them alive" I'm just... struggling to understand why this wasn't given more time in the oven. 

 

I won't be re-funding, as I am exceedingly pleased with the map and desire to see the CSLA Team improve the CDLC overall as many of the issues that've cropped up clearly stem from Bohemia hanging them out to dry, but I can't say I'm impressed with how this has been handled as a customer - and I'm exceedingly unlike to invest in anymore CDLCs consequently.

[MAA 127]

We thank everyone who continues to support us.

[Darkbelg 6]

What does this mean for the future of this DLC ? Is it no longer going to get updated ? Or is it going to get a kind of new rerelease in the future since it isn't pulled from the store ? What will be done to improve the quality and what is the quality standard rules for future CDLC? What does this mean for CDLC already in the works ?

[W0lle 1050]

Why should it be pulled from the store? Because a minority is complaing since some of the textures are not provided in 4k resolution? Because they 'look like Arma2"? It may be only me but if I play with any content, be it free or paid, I have other problems on the battlefield than how the uniform of that guy looks.

 

Yes, there were obvious issues that should not have been there, like turret rotation speed, or the helicopter mewing trees. But seriously, everyone with a bit of common sense should have known that these are issues that can and will be fixed. I'd not even bother with considering a refund for 10 bucks. Money everyone spends everyday on less without complaining.

[PuFu 4600]

Just now, W0lle said:

Why should it be pulled from the store? Because a minority is complaing since some of the textures are not provided in 4k resolution?

Actually (and i did that myself) seems that A3 handles 4k textures pretty poorly, and most assets in A3 are not 4k anyways

 

Just now, W0lle said:

Because they 'look like Arma2"? It may be only me but if I play with any content, be it free or paid, I have other problems on the battlefield than how the uniform of that guy looks.

While i am a sucker for visual quality, a lot of the csla doesn't actually look like A2 anyways

 

Just now, W0lle said:

Yes, there were obvious issues that should not have been there, like turret rotation speed, or the helicopter mewing trees. But seriously, everyone with a bit of common sense should have known that these are issues that can and will be fixed. I'd not even bother with considering a refund for 10 bucks. Money everyone spends everyday on less without complaining.

that's because a lot of people expect more than what is written on the box (in terms of features, content etc), bar the glaring bugs that as you said, can and will most likely be fixed anyways.

 

[W0lle 1050]

The "Arma2 textures" were often used as an argument why the CDLC was junk and would not be accepted. That's why the 4k was meant as an exaggeration.

 

After Prarie Fire, expectations were naturally high. I can understand that. Especially if you have a soft spot for high-resolution textures. Because you might primarily take photos or videos with the content.
But for the 'average' player the CSLA textures are fine I would say.

 

In any case, the reviews - some of which were almost insulting - were not necessary. And with many Steam reviews, I really wonder if they even looked at the content or just jumped on the bashing bandwagon.

 

Anyways, it's good to see that there is now a generous return policy. Whether this is necessary or not is up to each of the buyers. I for my part can live with what is in there for now. It will be better over time, I'm certain on that.

[LSValmont 789]

1 hour ago, Darkbelg said:

What does this mean for the future of this DLC ? Is it no longer going to get updated ? Or is it going to get a kind of new rerelease in the future since it isn't pulled from the store ? What will be done to improve the quality and what is the quality standard rules for future CDLC? What does this mean for CDLC already in the works ?

 

No one wants this pulled from the store... and most don't even want refunds, what we all want is quality content we can use in our missions and that there are lots of players with the cDLC to play with and justify investing time creating content and hosting servers for this!

 

Offering extended refund periods or the "compatibility mod" that is also present for the other cDLCs doesn't really solve the issue here so to those who are saying "Well done BI"... They haven't really done much yet other than was already there (Also for the previous cDLCs) and only time will tell if they deliver on what is really necessary to have this cDLC lit off.

[lilwillie 47]

Nice gesture by BI and it is great that everyone is keeping up with trying to make the community happy.

I for one, will happily keep playing CSLA, I think for what it cost me (two stiff drinks at my local tavern) I have gotten more than my moneys worth out of it already. I look forward to future updates and patches to the CDLC.

[MAA 127]

Thanks again to everyone who continues to support us and provide us with constructive feedback. We are trying to do our best and we certainly plan to continue to support our CDLC. We are currently working on another update to fix other issues.

 

BTW, we've updated our wiki page

https://community.bistudio.com/wiki/Category:CSLA:_Iron_Curtain

[-Joe- 101]

I do think some of this could have been mitigated by an extended preview period - perhaps by shifting to a model whereby the compatibility patches are dropped a few days to a week prior to the CDLC launching in full? I'm not entirely certain if that'd require a shift in the legal-ese and contracting that goes on between BI and the various CDLC teams.

[stburr91 1002]

6 hours ago, -Joe- said:

This is a step in the right direction - however, it does raise serious questions about what went on in the way of BIs quality assurance for the CDLC and why so many obvious issues slipped through. Given at least one BI staff member actively stated on the ARMA Discord that they'd been warned that the testing team didn't believe it was at an acceptable level to release and the community would "eat them alive" I'm just... struggling to understand why this wasn't given more time in the oven. 

 

I won't be re-funding, as I am exceedingly pleased with the map and desire to see the CSLA Team improve the CDLC overall as many of the issues that've cropped up clearly stem from Bohemia hanging them out to dry, but I can't say I'm impressed with how this has been handled as a customer - and I'm exceedingly unlike to invest in anymore CDLCs consequently.

 

BI didn't hang CSLA out to dry, and it isn't fair to say that they did. 

 

This project was being developed for years before becoming a CDLC project, and years after, they were also given another 6-7 additional months to fix the project. We're all on the outside looking in, so there is no way for us to know the details of what was going on inside the development of this project, but I just don't see how BI hung CSLA out to dry, there appears to have been ample time to bring this project to completion, and meet the expected quality control standards.

 

I don't know what incentive BI would have to force this project to release before it was ready, so I can only assume that CSLA was given the time needed, but failed to bring the project up to the proper standards.    

 

 

 

4 hours ago, W0lle said:

Why should it be pulled from the store? Because a minority is complaing since some of the textures are not provided in 4k resolution? Because they 'look like Arma2"? It may be only me but if I play with any content, be it free or paid, I have other problems on the battlefield than how the uniform of that guy looks.

 

Yes, there were obvious issues that should not have been there, like turret rotation speed, or the helicopter mewing trees. But seriously, everyone with a bit of common sense should have known that these are issues that can and will be fixed. I'd not even bother with considering a refund for 10 bucks. Money everyone spends everyday on less without complaining.

 

Last time I check, 76% of the reviews were negative., that ain't a minority, not by a long shot. 

 

I don't know where, or when you went to school, but when I was in school, 24% wasn't even close to a passing grade.  

[FallujahMedic -FM- 867]

To @MAA and the rest of the CSLA Team. 

Thank You!

For me, the Gabreta terrain alone was worth the purchase price. As an individual, my opinion doesn't really matter to most, but to others, it just may. I'll save the positive review for the Steam Store, but I wanted to make you aware of my intention.

To put the cost of this DLC into perspective, it would buy me one of the below:
2 Pints of Beer 
7 Litres of petrol (almost 2 US gallons)

It would not buy:
1 pack of cigarettes
1 small pizza from Dominos
Discord Nitro for 1.5 months
Twitch Turbo for 1.5 months

We've all seen users spend far more for server slots (per month).  I could go on and on, but I won't.

Thank you CSLA team, I've enjoyed your CDLC so far!

-FM-

(yes, my first post in almost a year was to say "Thank You")

 

[bandz 0]

tl;dr version --

This simply highlights the fact that now, more than ever, BI needs to let its loyal fanbase of customers and supporters know for sure, beyond all doubt, that ArmA 3 is NOT going to be the end of the line. We're not demanding a release date, trailers, screenshots or even a name. We just need to know that ArmA 3 will have a successor and that BI is still as loyal to us as we are to them. The lack of acknowledgement nearly 10 years since the last title was released is beginning to suggest that maybe ArmA 3 is the end of all things, which is a heart-rending thought. BI really needs to step up to the plate now, more than ever, in the wake up of this DLC crisis ... literally NOTHING else is more important right now ...

 

My long-winded ramblings:

I've held back on buying several of the latest DLCs just because of all the controversy on Steam and forums. But I must say that this response from BI is kind of encouraging. It tells me that they still consider ArmA 3, at least, to be alive and aren't planning on abandoning it just yet. However, it also kind of plays into my rising fears about the fact that they have not (and seemingly won't) give us any assurances about an "ArmA 4" or another series to carry on the realistic, in-depth milsim legacy of ArmA ... for all of us decade+ long fans and loyal customers, this is VERY troubling ... if ArmA is simply discontinued, what the hell are we going to play? Battlefield? Call of Duty? I'd rather be slowly murdered with a gang of rabid orangutans with a cheese grater ... I tried Battlefield, just for giggles and to see what all the hype was about, and after 3 days of giving it a fair chance I honestly couldn't get the uninstaller to run fast enough. I still feel like all those gigabytes of SSD storage space are somehow "tainted" by the garbage that once occupied those bit slots, like it might "rub off" on one of my good simulator installations and cause symptoms ranging from the need to sprint to accurately fire to turning IL-2 Sturmovik into a slightly more advanced, glorified version of War Thunder, lol. All joking aside, the community needs some assurances at this point, especially after these DLC debacles that have caused a degree of outrage and disatisfaction in the community. I know devs often like to keep a secret and wait for what they feel is an opportune moment to finally reveal their next big project, so I don't expect the devs to drop screenshots of an "ArmA 4" and an official announcement tomorrow, or release a trailer on YouTube of the next great successor series called "ArmAmArmA" ... but at least let us know that we're not being abandoned and have *something* to look forward to, and give us some loose "guidance" about when the next world-beating product might be revealed. I've seen too many great simulation developers simply disappear over the years and stop creating, due to the fact that realistic sims are a very "niche" sort of market that's often difficult to capitalize upon and it's hard to properly monetizing products. So I'm forever paranoid, like so many other old fans, that perhaps the most recent ArmA or IL-2 Sturmovik may be the last ...

 

If I knew that BI had another great milsim in the works, beyond a doubt, I'd go on and purchase ALL the DLCs I don't currently own (including this controversial one) just to support their development efforts and the community, and I'd dedicate myself fully to making the remaining years of ArmA 3's lifespan really count. Fear holds me back, however ... there's just no way I can be sure that BI is planning on being there for us in the future, beyond ArmA 3, and that they won't start making crappy mobile games for a Chinese company in the future because it pays a lot more than making these realistic milsims for a handful of nerds like us. I'm a programmer and a hobbyist modder and editor/creator, and I just can't get past BI's own "Iron Curtain" policy toward the future, this wall of silence and complete lack of assurances ...

 

PLEASE, Bohemia Interactive, make an official statement to let your community know that ArmA 3 is not going to be the end of all things ... if you don't do so soon, we're all going to have to assume that it is! Many people are beginning to interpret the lack of any/all acknowledgement of a continuation and the hyper-focus on small, episodic DLCs as BI trying to "milk the cow dry" before abandoning the series and community entirely. The focus on 3rd party DLC content is also being interpreted as BI trying to "pass the reigns" to the community before abandoning the ArmA legacy for other pursuits. I, personally, try to look on the bright side and tell myself that ArmA 3 was a great, long-lasting platform that supported modular content additions and was super-moddable, so it naturally had a very long lifespan and something mind-blowing simply has to be under construction to follow in its footsteps ... but when I think about the fact that ArmA 3 was a 2013 release and we're nearing the 10 year mark without even getting a tiny wink and a nod from BI about the future, it is ... well, extremely troubling ... at this point, the community deserves to know if we have any future with BI, or if it's purely up to modders and 3rd party devs to "remaster" the ArmA 3 release to try to make it last longer if there's nothing new coming in the future! BI, please step up to the plate here and let us know if ArmA 3 was the last of its line and the end of the milsim legacy! A lack of action/response at this point is just going to be interpreted as "Yes, it's over" ...

[BrewerOfBohemia 14]

@bandz Jesus, just relax, would you?

 

It's been said over and over at this point that BI is currently working on it's Enfusion engine/technology/whatever. As far as I know I think it's also been publicly stated that Arma 3 won't be the last in it's series. It would be stupid to assume that the series that got BI to where it is now should be just abandoned. I'm sure they didn't open those new studios just to rent out Ylands servers.

 

Just be patient. In the meantime you could keep your eyes on DayZ. I personally see DayZ as a kind of a tech demo for the next game in the Arma series.

[NyteMyre 87]

3 hours ago, FallujahMedic -FM- said:

It would not buy:
1 small pizza from Dominos
 

 

Maybe in the states, but i can get 2x small Dominos pizza's for the prize of the cDLC.

Also, i feel your answer is extremely biased

[FallujahMedic -FM- 867]

31 minutes ago, NyteMyre said:

 

Maybe in the states, but i can get 2x small Dominos pizza's for the prize of the cDLC.

Also, i feel your answer is extremely biased

No, in the UK. A small Dominos pizza is £13

Biased how?? I had no hand in creating this CDLC, nor was I a Beta tester, nor did I receive it for free. 

[Valour 11]

It was pushed to release way too early.   Any reason for that?  I think it has excellent potential and with time may be a very good DLC.   

[panduhh 40]

2 hours ago, BrewerOfBohemia said:

@bandz Jesus, just relax, would you?

 

It's been said over and over at this point that BI is currently working on it's Enfusion engine/technology/whatever. As far as I know I think it's also been publicly stated that Arma 3 won't be the last in it's series. It would be stupid to assume that the series that got BI to where it is now should be just abandoned. I'm sure they didn't open those new studios just to rent out Ylands servers.

 

Just be patient. In the meantime you could keep your eyes on DayZ. I personally see DayZ as a kind of a tech demo for the next game in the Arma series.

You grossly underestimate the popularity of Ylands. 😜

Otherwise, you are correct. It has not been any kind of secret BI has been feverishly working on the foundations of a new game engine intended to power the Arma franchise into the future.

There is no one in the Arma community who wants to see a new Arma game more than the least interested person at Bohemia Interactive.

[AndrewsRG 22]

For someone new to arma 3 franchise the DLC is a good thing.

 

For those of us who have been provided a decade of free content from some amazing community artists its hard to see the value.

 

Some bad decisions have been made B.I, we are all feeling the burn. I wish the guys who made this DLC and anyone still working on the arma project all the best, it's content for a game we all still enjoy and love.

 

The road is long
With a many a winding turn
That leads us to who knows where
Who knows where

[NacjoFarmer 33]

12 hours ago, BrewerOfBohemia said:

@bandz Jesus, just relax, would you?

 

It's been said over and over at this point that BI is currently working on it's Enfusion engine/technology/whatever. As far as I know I think it's also been publicly stated that Arma 3 won't be the last in it's series. It would be stupid to assume that the series that got BI to where it is now should be just abandoned. I'm sure they didn't open those new studios just to rent out Ylands servers.

 

Just be patient. In the meantime you could keep your eyes on DayZ. I personally see DayZ as a kind of a tech demo for the next game in the Arma series.

 

He's a little right. People don't expect Bohemia to say "Hey guys, there will be ArmA 4 in six months" but that at least they will confirm that "Yes, ArmA 4 will rise. You will have to wait a long, long time, but it will rise". The lack of any confirmation is a bit disturbing and a bit frustrating. If Bohemia even said "ArmA 4 will come out in 10 years but you can buy a $ 100 preorder right now to support us" I would buy a preorder right now and I think thousands of people would do the same.

 

Sorry for offtopic.

 

When it comes to DLC, it has both advantages and disadvantages. The map is beautiful (I've already spent 70 hours on this map in the editor instead of studying for exams 😅). There are some nice assets, such as the DANA howitzer, but there are also many disadvantages, such as incorrect reload animations (mods such as NIArms or GM DLC have set a high standard in this regard and people from paid DLC require such quality, no matter if it costs $ 10 or $ 20) . Don't take it as hate, but as constructive criticism. I bought this DLC and I am not thinking of a refund although a lot of things need to be improved. I see great potential in it in the future.

The problem is that people have split with this DLC into two camps - one that just hates everything in this DLC and the other that doesn't see any flaws, coming up with the weirdest arguments. But what is needed is a CONSTRUCTIVE critique of both advantages and disadvantages to help improve it 😉

[vafana 110]

Thanks CSLA team, I enjoy this DLC, especially the map (like the old OFP fans).