Diplomata 0 Posted January 25, 2003 What can we expect from them? Could these forums really make anything better (or worse)? If your voice could be heard there, what would you say? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cloney 0 Posted January 25, 2003 Its a forum for expression of opinions, wouldn't you have to submit resolutions and suggests, etc. to the UN inorder for some kind of action to take place? Anyway, sounds to me like a place where every bleeding heart communist on the planet can go and tell all his other bleeding heart buddies that we should give computers to starving ethiopian school children because it will help them feed their families. I rest my case. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tex -USMC- 0 Posted January 25, 2003 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Cloney @ Jan. 25 2003,04:43)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Its a forum for expression of opinions, wouldn't you have to submit resolutions and suggests, etc. to the UN inorder for some kind of action to take place? Anyway, sounds to me like a place where every bleeding heart communist on the planet can go and tell all his other bleeding heart buddies that we should give computers to starving ethiopian school children because it will help them feed their families. I rest my case.<span id='postcolor'> Not exactly how I would have put it, but I see what you're trying to say Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cloney 0 Posted January 25, 2003 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Tex [uSMC] @ Jan. 25 2003,04:51)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Cloney @ Jan. 25 2003,04:43)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Its a forum for expression of opinions, wouldn't you have to submit resolutions and suggests, etc. to the UN inorder for some kind of action to take place? Anyway, sounds to me like a place where every bleeding heart communist on the planet can go and tell all his other bleeding heart buddies that we should give computers to starving ethiopian school children because it will help them feed their families. I rest my case.<span id='postcolor'> Not exactly how I would have put it, but I see what you're trying to say<span id='postcolor'> Just the Facts Ma'm, Just the Facts. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Warin 0 Posted January 25, 2003 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Cloney @ Jan. 25 2003,04:43)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Its a forum for expression of opinions, wouldn't you have to submit resolutions and suggests, etc. to the UN inorder for some kind of action to take place? Anyway, sounds to me like a place where every bleeding heart communist on the planet can go and tell all his other bleeding heart buddies that we should give computers to starving ethiopian school children because it will help them feed their families. I rest my case.<span id='postcolor'> Great attitude How about teaching proper irrigation and planting methods, and coming up with hardy seed stock that isnt encumbered by patents. You do know that most farmers pay for their seed stock every year, right? Because most of the hardier varieties of grain that yield well and are nutritious are intellectual propery of some corporation. It's a fact. It is not being a 'bleeding heart communist' to place some burden on the first world to help the third world advance out of abject poverty. Or do you object to the idea that Nike will have to pay fair wages, so your next pair of overpriced shoes might cost a little more? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cloney 0 Posted January 25, 2003 A. How are we going to teach them irrigation if they are killing eachother in the droves everyday? Oh Oh I know! Lets let the Americans send their boys to straighten out another countries problems. B. There is a difference between being a bleeding heart communist and being a good person. As far as I'm concerned, I don't really care about what Nike does in some other country because its not our problem and there really isn't that much the US as a whole can do about it (Other than not buy Nike shoes, which won't happen.) Maybe the activists should tell the country (Thailand, Malaysia, Etc.) that Nike is using "slave labor" and let them take care of it. Since when did the US have to look out for the rights of citizens of OTHER countries whose own country doesn't give two shits about them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
-SZ-Vladimir 0 Posted January 25, 2003 WEF....mmmh, in Switzerland Vladimir Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Warin 0 Posted January 25, 2003 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Cloney @ Jan. 25 2003,18:42)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">A. How are we going to teach them irrigation if they are killing eachother in the droves everyday? Oh Oh I know! Lets let the Americans send their boys to straighten out another countries problems. B. There is a difference between being a bleeding heart communist and being a good person. As far as I'm concerned, I don't really care about what Nike does in some other country because its not our problem and there really isn't that much the US as a whole can do about it (Other than not buy Nike shoes, which won't happen.) Maybe the activists should tell the country (Thailand, Malaysia, Etc.) that Nike is using "slave labor" and let them take care of it. Since when did the US have to look out for the rights of citizens of OTHER countries whose own country doesn't give two shits about them.<span id='postcolor'> Again, such a WONDERFUL attitude. I am not talking about the US. I am talking about the first world. All of the industrialised, wealthy nations. Why are they killing htemselves? Mostly it's because of overwhelming poverty. If you cant eat, you'll go take what you need to eat. Yes, there are some evil men in there too getting rich, but so long as the 'civilised' world turns a blind eye to it, it will keep happening. But hey, what the hell, it's not in my back yard, so why should I care. Right? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cloney 0 Posted January 25, 2003 Well Warin, If you are so stuck on this cause, why not do your part and join the Peace Corp and do your part. I'm a bit agrivated by people who complain about how shitty things are but will bitch and moan until someone else steps up to do the work. Give me a break because this topic is going nowhere fast. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bn880 5 Posted January 25, 2003 At least recognizing a problem means you are aware. And for some issues it only takes public awareness and support for their govt to help in certain ways. You don't have to join the Peace Corps to voice your view on what the real problems is. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cloney 0 Posted January 25, 2003 I agree but if he is going to be so fervent about his cause, maybe he should do something to further it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bn880 5 Posted January 25, 2003 I know what you mean, but not everyone can flow all their energy into a "single" cause. Everyone is different... he was not speaking of sending people off to die (making war), so I personally wouldn't say he should or has to join the Peace Corps. If he said: they/we gotta go in and get the suckers then I would say, send your self in there. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Warin 0 Posted January 25, 2003 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Cloney @ Jan. 25 2003,20:32)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I agree but if he is going to be so fervent about his cause, maybe he should do something to further it.<span id='postcolor'> I'm not fervent about a cause. I am just saying that as long as it's 'somebody elses problem', then thousands of people each day will continue to die of starvation and sickness. Some people spend vasts sums to improve healthcare and hunger in the third world. Look Cloney, I am not saying you need to get up and go work in the third world to make peoples lives better. All I am saying is that unless there is awareness and compassion, thousands of people will continue to die of disease and malnutrition while you sit on your ass and eat your Doritos and slurp up your coke. Last Thanksgiving I worked at a homeless shelter to help feed some people who wouldnt have had much otherwise. Awareness starts at home. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ran 0 Posted January 25, 2003 we eat and drink while tomorow they diiiiie Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bn880 5 Posted January 25, 2003 And, I din't know if I should mention this... How many corporations throw away "destroy" food that is not upto standard for the North American market? Why not have a plan to ship most "unacceptable" food here to the third world? Most of the problems are with packaging etc. I guarantee you the people getting the improperly labeled food in Africa would be thanking you and laughing at you if you said there is residue of peanuts in the product. We really have it made compared to some out there. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Diplomata 0 Posted January 27, 2003 In fact everbody in the forum are aware of whats going on in poor countries. But do you think they care? Do you think they'd care? I think they should. Why? In the past these places were (and some of then currently are) the big boy's playground. Sploited the crap out of the country and left them diyng. Every soul knows that, but as far as the forum doesn't mean a formal agree it will be all the same. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Balschoiw 0 Posted January 27, 2003 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Why not have a plan to ship most "unacceptable" food here to the third world? <span id='postcolor'> a) It is simply to expensive (companies wont pay it) b) When it arrives after shipping it is not in a good state anymore (fresh food will be rotten) c) local food often doesnt meet the peoples taste in 3rd world countries. They are not used to it get problems with stomach or whatever which indeed is a problem if the person is already down cause of hunger. This can kill people. Anyway a lot of raw food is simply destroyed to keep up the prices. Overproduction lowers the price. Therefore and I think this is one of the major reasons the big food producers don´t give away the food for free but destroy it. It´s about money. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bn880 5 Posted January 27, 2003 Yes Bals, but there is still a lot of perfectly good stuff that would make it there allright. I'm saying why not have some program in place to see if something can't be done. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Diplomata 0 Posted January 27, 2003 <!--emo& As always... However i think "better than giving the fish is teaching how to fish." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bn880 5 Posted January 27, 2003 Yep, what they really need is a lot of fish, and to learn how to fish as well. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ralphwiggum 6 Posted January 27, 2003 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Diplomata @ Jan. 27 2003,04:53)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--emo& As always... However i think "better than giving the fish is teaching how to fish."<span id='postcolor'> good point. problem is the method to catch fish. western countries have their version, while others ahve different style. when diffeent methos is introduced, there is almost always chance of conflict. any change will cause stress, and any change in catching fish will cause headache. and some view it as intrusion. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Warin 0 Posted January 27, 2003 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (RalphWiggum @ Jan. 27 2003,04:56)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Diplomata @ Jan. 27 2003,04:53)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--emo& As always... However i think "better than giving the fish is teaching how to fish."<span id='postcolor'> good point. problem is the method to catch fish. western countries have their version, while others ahve different style. when diffeent methos is introduced, there is almost always chance of conflict. any change will cause stress, and any change in catching fish will cause headache. and some view it as intrusion.<span id='postcolor'> Perhaps that is why part of giving aid should be a mandatory lesson in respecting other peoples values and ways of life. It's not enough to just give people help, if the help comes with a hearty dose of 'our way is better than yours'. If you take care to respect others beliefs, no matter how strange or contrary to yours they are, you will leave the experience having someone who respects you and cares rather than hates. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brgnorway 0 Posted January 28, 2003 Perhaps Lula is the right man for the future to come. I bet a nation like Brasil which has it's feet planted in an economy of both high tech industry as well as a more traditional developing country - could lead the way to change. Remember, Brasil used to be one of the richest countries and could very well be heading that way again- if - poverty was challenged and wealth more evenly distributed. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/2696393.stm Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
