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Gunter Severloh

AI Facts & Myths Compilation List

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5 hours ago, Electricleash said:

Great thread, a lot of hard graft to put this together.

 

May I suggest something, from a usability perspective to, Instead of bullet points, assign each a numerical value.

 

  • AI will not shoot you through bushes, if he did not see you before - TRUE (fixed in OA and merged)

Would be:

  1. AI will not shoot you through bushes, if he did not see you before - TRUE (fixed in OA and merged)

 

That way, when talking about them below or in an external thread one can refer to this thread and the numerical number for easier reference.

Thanks for the feedback, what i will be doing is sorting the list by subject similar to my other 2 lists linked in my sig, when the list is sorted

per subjected i will have them in numerical order.

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3 minutes ago, chrisb said:

Someone did a melee script or mod, can't remember for A3. I tested it in stealth and it worked fine. Creeping up behind enemy units wasn't an issue. Problem was the animation, didn't look good.

Was it mocap melee? ---> http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=27262

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4 minutes ago, Gunter Severloh said:

 

No, that one you link there is much better than the one I had. The grab is good, probably the most used in melee stealth, coupled with a knife. Hitting and kicking is not really useful, for me at least.

But the grab, that looked good. 😉

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AI is alerted by dead body - TRUE (from its group/side?)

AI leader continues to give order to incapacitated units - TRUE (regroup/attack/getIn vehicle...)

AI can disobey to a player leader and follow another (JIP) player, not leader - TRUE  https://feedback.bistudio.com/T137598

AI can heal another AI/player of its group, if medic and not in combat mode - TRUE (probably needs some conditions on readiness of the wounded)

AI can't revive another AI(playable)/player, even if medic - TRUE

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Group units sometimes split into another group when entering another vehicle - TRUE.

It's terribly hard to reproduce (thus I can't create a ticket for it), and I have had it a a few times in a dynamic scenario.  Every time it was connected with soldiers being ordered to get into a vehicle when units of other group were in that vehicle. It's very rare, but something to keep in mind if you do AI scripts.

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Thank you guys for your feedback!

Update

  • Updated the description of the thread ... again 😄
  • Reorganized the list into several subjects.
  • Relocated listings to given subjects based on what they were about.
  • Each listing is numbered for a better communications for feedback - (thanks Electricleash for the idea).
  • Each subject's content is contained within a spoiler to make browsing and searching more efficient/less time consuming.
  • Each subject has enlarged font, and color for easy identification.
  • Adjusted some wording in some descriptions.
  • Adjusted some of the listings order.
  • Added new Ai listings based on their subjects - (thanks pierremgi and Sparker).

Notes

Keep in mind that each listing is not in exact order, they are just numbered, the numbers are merely to keep the listings formatted and organized but

also to be used as a communications tool for feedback when discussing a particular subject/s listing.

    New additions to a given subject will be added to the top of a subject category.

 

:thanx: Want to thank the community for their support, feedback, in my work here, i hope that it can benefit, and enlighten those interested in the subject of AI. Cheers!

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On 5/27/2019 at 11:14 AM, R3vo said:

That video looks more like they can't hear footsteps.

 

22 hours ago, snkman said:

They can!

He was walking very slow + crouching at the end which will pretty much lower all movement noise.

Same situation with normal movement would have made A.I. aware of him if within 10 - 15 meters to the A.I. unit.

 

20 hours ago, Moon_chilD said:


That might all be true, but the video that is supposed to prove this does not prove it. (So basically R3vo doesn't say the statement is wrong, but he says the video doesn't prove the statement.)

 

Not sure if they're actually detecting the footsteps, more likely it depends on movement speed and stance, went through another quick pass, from upright regular walking speed to crouched and then prone with slow speeds, each seems to take off ~1m from the detection range.

No idea how to prove that they actually hear the footsteps rather than decide if a detection happens based on speed and stance.

 

Just note that the knowsabout jumps to 4 every time without the unit even facing me, so he should have no clue if I'm hostile or not.

Knowsabout 4 basically means he knows all there is to know about me.

Another AI flaw uncovered?

Spoiler

hee hee

:yay:

 

Cheers

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knowsAbout has always been kinda weird. There's basically only 0/4 anything in between is very rare.

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9 hours ago, Grumpy Old Man said:

Not sure if they're actually detecting the footsteps, more likely it depends on movement speed and stance, went through another quick pass, from upright regular walking speed to crouched and then prone with slow speeds, each seems to take off ~1m from the detection range.

No idea how to prove that they actually hear the footsteps rather than decide if a detection happens based on speed and stance.

Well to me it pretty much looks like A.I. detection is doing exactly what it is supposed to do given on the situation at least as good as possible. :thumbs-up:

 

6 hours ago, R3vo said:

knowsAbout has always been kinda weird. There's basically only 0/4 anything in between is very rare.

True targetKnowledge is by far more usable.

 

Anyway... THX for testing Grumpy. :icon5:

 

Quote

AI will not disembark to change position in vehicle (if possible) -

TRUE

A.I. will stick to their assigned vehicle role even if the driver of the vehicle was killed.

 

Quote

AI medic in a squad will heal their own wounded -

TRUE

Pretty rarely but they do.

 

Quote

AI cannot see you in dense fog -

TRUE

At least fog will pretty much reduce / affect A.I. unit(s) enemy knowledge and visibillity.

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Proper technicalities or scientific testings are beyond my abilities, so following are just my observations from wrestling with AI in SP, under microscope, take with a pinch of salt if you will.

 

As far I can tell AI don't use binoculars or optics of any kind to accomplish the "initial detection" if they don't already have prior knowledge of their existence. Say we human can determine when the sightline is suitable for the use of optics for scanning distant terrain, trading FoV for better probability of detection, given enough time you will eventually detect the target even without prior knowledge. For AI it appears the initial detection is always through equivalent of the non magnified Mk 1 ball(or through taking fire). I think for this reason you'll never see organic, "sniper/spotter" behaviour from AI. However it appears to me AI take little to no time to detect once within their detection range.

 

What I'd really like to find out is what happens after the initial detection happens. Say you duck behind a sandbag, then pop back out, you'd expect AI to reacquire you quickly. Say even you run 300m away from AI in the open(where they can maintain LOS) beyond their naked eye capability prior to the initial detection, get behind something to break LOS, then shortly after that pop back out, they will probably still reacquire promptly. I wonder what it takes to remove your "mark of death" from AI, reset their ability to detect you prior to the initial detection. Displace sufficiently from your last known position? Time without LOS on target?

 

The other thing I'm interested in is the capability of their "brain datalink". Say what if only 1 unit in a group has the required capability to detect a target, how does it affect the rest of the group's ability to engage? Say in pitch dark night, only 1 unit is equipped to maintain track of the target, with NVG and laser designator. How well can the rest of the group without NVG engage with just ironsight? What if they have magnifying day optics, does the small FoV number do anything? Also a related question is, can AI maintain track of a target in darkness with only weapon night sight, without head mounted NVG?

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7 hours ago, mmm said:

I wonder what it takes to remove your "mark of death" from AI, reset their ability to detect you prior to the initial detection. Displace sufficiently from your last known position? Time without LOS on target?

Correct, just break line of sight and cover as much distance in the as fast as possible. In urban environments you can easily outflank small enemy groups and even get to their rear a long as you're not exposing yourself.

 

7 hours ago, mmm said:

The other thing I'm interested in is the capability of their "brain datalink".

Target knowledge is shared within a group, instantly, often within the same frame.

No idea why it's like that, since other stuff like issuing move commands requires for the command to be issued before the command is carried out ("2, move 100m to the rear" -> only after completing the sentence unit 2 starts to move).

Ability to engage primarily depends on the knowsAbout value, if it's above the magic number (1.3 I guess) the enemy will engage if other factors don't prevent it.

 

Tested something similar a while ago, 3 hostiles in same group at ~45m, only leader has NVGs, dark night, revealing the player for 0.1 to any unit of the enemy group made the knowsAbout value jump to 0.8, no one opening fire, after 25-30 seconds I got spotted (basically impossible to tell which unit spotted me because of instant target sharing within a group), knowsabout value doubled to 1.6 and they opened fire. After returning fire myself the value jumped to 3.7.

Until I started returning fire and stayed on the position they seemed to fire potshots at me, when I returned fire and started moving their fire rate increased. They were also able to track me just fine, even the units without NVGs, as long as I stayed within line of sight.

 

So it's basically irrelevant what unit is carrying the NVG as long as one unit is carrying a NVG you will get spotted, sooner or later.

 

Cheers

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On 5/30/2019 at 1:41 AM, mmm said:

What I'd really like to find out is what happens after the initial detection happens. Say you duck behind a sandbag, then pop back out, you'd expect AI to reacquire you quickly. Say even you run 300m away from AI in the open(where they can maintain LOS) beyond their naked eye capability prior to the initial detection, get behind something to break LOS, then shortly after that pop back out, they will probably still reacquire promptly. I wonder what it takes to remove your "mark of death" from AI, reset their ability to detect you prior to the initial detection. Displace sufficiently from your last known position? Time without LOS on target?

Just to add some more information on what Grumpy Old Man already said.

 

We have this nice and very powerful command called targetKnowledge which will return a lot of very usefull informations.

 

But the 2 best returned values are:

Quote

last time the target was seen by the unit

last time the target endangered the unit

I'm using this command very often since quite a while because of it's very detailed and precise informations on what exactly A.I. unit(s) knows about their enemy.

 

The "last time the target was seen by the unit" value does exactly what its supposed to do.

As long as A.I. unit(s) have any kind of visible contact to their enemy it will return the time the A.I. unit(s) were able to see their enemy.

As soon as their enemy get behind any kind of cover ( vegetation / building / vehicle ) what ever cuts the LOS it will stay at exactly the same time their enemy were spotted the last time.

 

So yes after using this command and monitoring what it returns guess i can clearly say that any kind of object is able to cut LOS.

 

Quote

AI will switch to and use a pistol in a CQB range vs its assault rifle -

TRUE for Snipers only.

 

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Update

List was updated.

 

- added SNKman's previous and latest find to the list

6 hours ago, snkman said:
Quote

AI will switch to and use a pistol in a CQB range vs its assault rifle -

TRUE for Snipers only.

  

and also the other statements he pointed out i added which are the following:

On 5/28/2019 at 1:52 PM, snkman said:
Quote

AI will not disembark to change position in vehicle (if possible) -

TRUE

A.I. will stick to their assigned vehicle role even if the driver of the vehicle was killed.

 

Quote

AI medic in a squad will heal their own wounded -

TRUE

Pretty rarely but they do.

 

Quote

AI cannot see you in dense fog -

TRUE

At least fog will pretty much reduce / affect A.I. unit(s) enemy knowledge and visibillity.

 

- also for those statements in the list that have a - after them i had placed UNKNOWN

showing that, that statement has not been confirmed to be true or false as of yet.

==========

 

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First of all tks for the reply GOM(can I call you that😁).

On 5/30/2019 at 3:36 AM, Grumpy Old Man said:

Correct, just break line of sight and cover as much distance in the as fast as possible. In urban environments you can easily outflank small enemy groups and even get to their rear a long as you're not exposing yourself.

 

I want to clarify what I meant. My understanding of what you're saying is that AI don't see you if it's not facing your direction, that is you're not within it's vision cone. And displacing to a different direction relative to AI is a way to do that. If so what I meant is a little different.

 

Now, just assume hypothetically this:

You're standing still behind a sandbag, 400m away from AI, a condition which you're normally not detectable by AI without having seen you once before.

You shoot at AI, it learns about your exact position and shoots back at you. You go prone behind the sand bag, breaking the line of sight, the shooting stops. Now my assumption is that if you stand back up or even rolling out of the sandbag in prone to within its vision cone. it will reacquire you and proceed to shoot at you again because of some form of prior knowledge that I don't understand the exact nature of.

My question would be, assuming AI holds its position, facing the sandbag direction, can you move out of the sandbag without getting shot at again, after waiting for, say 5 minutes? Basically does this "prior knowledge" which leads to heightened ability to reacquire a previously detected target decay with time?

Or say you magically teleport away from the sandbag to a position a position 400m to AI's right, and AI remains still but then rotate to face your direction, now you're within its vision cone. Will it shoot at you then? Basically, does this knowledge degrade when target is away from the last known position?

 

Or does it work some other way that I cannot think of? I have a feeling that the knowledge never fully disappear until you're dead, the entire group will re-detect you at longer distance not matter how long has passed or how far you have moved from where you're last seen. Akin to having a battlefield spot dorito over your head for the remainder of your life...

 

On 5/30/2019 at 3:36 AM, Grumpy Old Man said:

Correct, just break line of sight and cover as much distance in the as fast as possible. In urban environments you can easily outflank small enemy groups and even get to their rear a long as you're not exposing yourself.

 

Now I'm confused, do you mean AI detection not binary like human? I.E. either you see or you don't, shooting at where something last at is not seeing. I'm just a guy "playing" ARMA maybe I'm not qualified to have this kind of discussion but OTOH I'm genuinely curious.

 

What I'm wondering is that what if you run to a distance 300m away without ever firing again to give off more "knowsabout". Where guys with no NVG have 0 chance of seeing you(I guess, can't be sure about anything once you're seen once), even if they saw your muzzle flash once, but the leader with NVG and laser designator can still track you once you've been detected. How well will those supposedly "blind" AI shoot? As good as shooting at analogical "spot dorito"?

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many of the "AI uses weapon X against Y/ switches for Z" type things are simple config settings. If someone didnt do it right (e.g. some mods) or differently it will not work/ or work when it didnt before.

You could also get jets to use laser guided AT missiles on infantry...

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17 hours ago, mmm said:

My question would be, assuming AI holds its position, facing the sandbag direction, can you move out of the sandbag without getting shot at again, after waiting for, say 5 minutes? Basically does this "prior knowledge" which leads to heightened ability to reacquire a previously detected target decay with time? 

 

Quote

Or say you magically teleport away from the sandbag to a position a position 400m to AI's right, and AI remains still but then rotate to face your direction, now you're within its vision cone. Will it shoot at you then? Basically, does this knowledge degrade when target is away from the last known position?

A.I. knowledge will stay up for about 3 - 5 minutes no matter what!

 

forgetTarget command will make them forget about their enemy instantely.

 

Only way to make A.I. drop their enemy knowledge faster/instantly without scripting is to go very far away from them ( teleporting ) to another position which is further away from them as the set viewdistance.

This is exactly the reason why i explained the targetKnowledge command few posts above which will give much more realistic and precise values to work with.

 

B.t.w.: If you destroy a enemy vehicle A.I. unit(s) friedly to the destroyed vehicle will get knowledge about the unit which destroyed it as well even if they are miles away.

None manned vehicles 0.1 and manned vehicles 1.5 knowledge.

Same goes to artillery and mortar.

Even without LOS to the artillery / mortar unit / vehicle A.I. enemy to the firing vehicle will get knowledge about it if within the audible range.

 

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Update

Video overview of the thread,

Video below is linked on the OP, Cheers!

 

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New ones:

AI will walk through walls or other solid obstacles, if an other path cannot be found. TRUE

AI will react to chemlights UNKOWN

AI will react to IR grenades UNKOWN

AI will rest their weapons on walls /use bipod UKNOWN

 

Quote

Stun grenades can stun the AI - UNKNOWN

There are no stun grenades in vanilla A3. So that's FALSE

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3 hours ago, R3vo said:

New ones:

AI will walk through walls or other solid obstacles, if an other path cannot be found. TRUE

AI will react to chemlights UNKOWN

AI will react to IR grenades UNKOWN

AI will rest their weapons on walls /use bipod UKNOWN

 

There are no stun grenades in vanilla A3. So that's FALSE

But it is true if you use mods like ACE and RHS because those give scripted reaction. And doesn't APEX cutscene after first mission have flash? So if it was implemented in vanilla. I am sure AIs will be stunned .

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Update

added

 

AI Actions, Interaction, Pathing, & Tactics

  • AI will walk through walls or other solid obstacles, if an other path cannot be found. TRUE

AI Grenades, Mines, & Throwables

  • Stun grenades can stun the AI - UNKNOWN - (would be TRUE if Ace, or RHS mods are being used)

  • AI will react to chemlights UNKOWN

  • AI will react to IR grenades UNKOWN

AI Actions, Interaction, Pathing, & Tactics

  • AI will rest their weapons on walls /use bipod UKNOWN

Misc

changed AI Grenades, and Mines to AI Grenades, Mines, & Throwables

===============

Thank you R3vo for those!

6 hours ago, R3vo said:

New ones:

There are no stun grenades in vanilla A3. So that's FALSE

what i added to the list:

Stun grenades can stun the AI - FALSE (there are no stun grenades in vanilla arma3 - (would be TRUE if Ace, or RHS mods are being used)

 

I actually checked to do this test and there are no stun grenades anywhere, however their are IR grenades so im thinking they may work with AI but thats to be confirmed.

2 hours ago, ISparkle said:
6 hours ago, R3vo said:

There are no stun grenades in vanilla A3. So that's FALSE

But it is true if you use mods like ACE and RHS because those give scripted reaction. And doesn't APEX cutscene after first mission have flash? So if it was implemented in vanilla. I am sure AIs will be stunned .

Yes with ACE and RHS i can confirm this but there are no stun grenades in APEX or vanilla game, so the list is vanilla based, i did add a note

after the statement that unless using ACE or RHS stun grenades would be true.

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One of the most informative lists, thanks a lot Gunter!

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14 hours ago, R3vo said:

AI will react to IR grenades UNKOWN

 

 How about normal frag Grenades? Ive heard that they are programmed to but have never seen them run from grenades consistently unless running TPW mod in which case they def do

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40 minutes ago, froggyluv said:

 How about normal frag Grenades?

Good question, idk to be honest, i swear i have seen the AI run from grenades, most times they dont, needs to be tested,

but i will add that to the list thanks, idk how i forgot that one.

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1. IR grenades and AI.
- IR grenades do not attract the attention of AI, even if the AI is equipped with a thermal imager - true.
- IR grenades can be identified for AI as a target, if you give an indication to AI about a target on an IR grenade - true.

2. The effect of the smoke screen on the target for AI.
- When AI uses a thermal sight, the smoke screen is ineffective - true
- When AI does not use a thermal sight, the smoke screen is effective - true

 

On 5/30/2019 at 2:41 AM, mmm said:

What I'd really like to find out is what happens after the initial detection happens. Say you duck behind a sandbag, then pop back out, you'd expect AI to reacquire you quickly. Say even you run 300m away from AI in the open(where they can maintain LOS) beyond their naked eye capability prior to the initial detection, get behind something to break LOS, then shortly after that pop back out, they will probably still reacquire promptly. I wonder what it takes to remove your "mark of death" from AI, reset their ability to detect you prior to the initial detection. Displace sufficiently from your last known position? Time without LOS on target?

This can be easily seen using arma3diag_x64.exe from the Arma 3 Development branch.

AIAiming - shows vectors (lines) of AI aiming at known target
AIBrain - general informations about AI brain, combat mode and fsm state
AIDynamicError - shows value of dynamically calculated AI aiming error
AISkill - shows value of skill, plus global coefficients, as set by difficulty mode

To find out a little how Target AI works, consider the operation of the parameters "Assignet target", "Attack target" and "DCE" (dynamically calculated error).
1.

"Assignet target" is not defined for AI:
- When AI has no target data - true
- When AI loses sight of the target - false
"Assignet target" is defined for AI:
- When AI has target data - true
- When AI loses sight of the goal - true
2
"Attack target" is not defined for AI:
- When AI has no target data - true
- When AI loses sight of the target - false
"Attack target" is defined for AI:
- When AI has target data - true
- When AI loses sight of the goal - true
3. ContactMode
- AI changes ContactMode "Combat" to "Aware", if there is no direct contact with the target for a long time - true
- If AI changes the ContactMode "Combat" to "Aware", "Assignet target" and "Attack target" reset the last registration of the target - false.
The “Assignet target” and “Attack target” values that are active for the target are not reset, this is not affected by a change in the course of time or a change in the distance to the target.
- If the AI changes the ContactMode "Aware" to "Combat", the new value "Assignet target" and "Attack target" is registered, if another goal is in the AI field of view - true
4. The value of the dynamically calculated error aiming AI "DCE".
- "DCE" will have a value greater than "0.00" if ContactMode "Aware" - false.
- "DCE" will have a value greater than "0.00" if "Assignet target" and "Attack target" are not defined for AI - false
- "DCE" will have a value of "0.00" if ContactMode "Combat" - false
- "DCE" will have a value of "0.00" if "Assignet target" and "Attack target" are defined for AI - false
- "DCE" will have a value of "0.00" When AI registers a view of the target - true
- "DCE" AI gets faster the value "0.00" if the target was previously registered in the "Assignet target" and "Attack target" - true.

Registration of all parameter values looks very confusing and sometimes not regular. I'm more inclined to the fact that the “hearing of the AI” and its behavior are emulated not on the actual sound, on some other mechanics.

 

5. AI skill.

AI skill can be changed from 20% -100% - true.
The value of the AI skill affects the value of the "DCE" AI - true.
The larger the AI skill value, the smaller the "DCE" parameter value.
AI skill affects other AI target parameters - false.

https://imgur.com/wecitdk

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Really??? Fool me!!! I wasn't aware there is something like this available... :headscratch: So AMAZING!!!

Many thanks lex__1 guess i will spend next few days in ARMA 3 Development branch. :icon5::thumbs-up:

 

Learning new things almost every single day... :icon1:

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