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Gunter Severloh

AI Facts & Myths Compilation List

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Gunter , this is like opening a treasure chest !

That's a lot of useful information for this Forum !

 

Thank you very much for sharing !

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😄 Welcome George!

This was actually not a planned project, was an unexpected inspiration from that thread i linked by RozekPoland, i didn't think i was going to get as far as a handful of statements

with this but next thing you know i ended up brainstorming, and reading the whole Development Branch Captain's AI Log thread and grabbing those AI features from the list even from the AI Discussion thread.

There are still some statements that i haven't gotten answers too, so i would hope that some of the members in the community may know if they are true.

 

Overall i hope that this thread can shed some information to those whom are interested in AI and to those new to the game to give them a good idea on what the AI is actually capable of,

as i was doing the research alot of the stuff i was reading were real eye openers, seeing that the AI can do all this stuff is rather amazing.

As much as we complain about the AI, look at my list .... The AI are capable of ALOT of things, lets add a an AI enhancement mod in there too, and you get some pretty interesting AI actions.

 

Thread was updated btw

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Excellent list, let's keep tuning and adding. Here's one for you:

 

  • AI drivers hate can-openers (actually any small object with PhysX I believe) and will avoid them, meaning that if you place them under wrecks then the AI will drive around them improving their ability to navigate down roads with obstacles dramatically - TRUE
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Nice!

List updated.

 

I think i will go back to the 2 threads i linked in the op and get more references for those listings, so at least there is more description and possibly references to them.

 

I was pondering the idea like i have for my AI and WW2 compilation lists to divide, and sort the AI listings into particular subjects, im wondering if that may prove to be more useful as a

quick go to reference for someone wanting to know something in particular then just a huge list with everything of the AI wherever it may be, your guys thoughts?

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Awesome post. Thanks for all the work!

 

Quote

AI in groups share information about targets - TRUE

I think this depends on whether or not they have a radio with them?!?

 

 

 

Quote

AI prefer not to waste rockets on infantry rather shoot them at vehicles

This one is true if the cost value of the infantry is lower then the one of the enemy vehicle.

 

 

Quote

AI tries to keep the turret aligned with vehicle's direction if it has no targets -

This is true, just tested it with a tank. As soon as the target is destroyed or the "no target" order was given they turn the turret back to 0° (From vehicle front)

 

 

  • When AI uses Binoculars they actually can spot easier UNKNOWN
  • AI will not used HE or HEAT against infantry when driving a tank. TRUE
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33 minutes ago, R3vo said:

I think this depends on whether or not they have a radio with them?!?

 

 

Sadly, no. The radio item only changes the com channel AI will use - it has no influence on information sharing. I remember a dev confirming that on the forum.

Arma soldiers are telepaths. Or they have 2035 high tech brain implants.

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Early A3 vanilla test: Very deaf vanilla ai, never a myth.. 😉

 

 

 

2019 test, infact just now (for this thread), seeing the last test I did about A3 vanilla ai & hearing was two years ago.. They were still deaf then. But it seems that, and perhaps down to us players testing, they have corrected it. Although they still don't do much about it, but it helps that they hear.

I'm  delighted that they now react to gunfire. 🙂

 

 

 

I like the thread, we all know, those of us that test ai a 'lot', that they are capable of huge amounts of things (without doubt the best game ai there is). However, unfortunately if they can't get the very basics down to a 'T', they are still lacking. But modded ai can change that.

Going to cover, good cover, is one of those things they lack and that is a basic thing, for me at least.

They do eventually go to cover, vanilla ai, but its not great. But we all live in hope that vanilla will complete the basics, hearing was one of those basics.

 

I haven't read through the other things, the first two made me think... Are you sure.. 😉

But yes, they do hear now. I would like to see a better response, but hey early days... 😕

 

I have around 400 ai videos on my ChrisB YT (most taken down a year or so ago, but I put some back up having been asked too), all but a very few are ai tests. So it will be interesting to see if some of the others are true.. Unfortunately most of mine are A2 (modded A2).

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Thanks for your input and information!

I had updated the list, with the new listings, and information for existing ones, as well as changing all the true statement color to green, and also adding an unknown answer thanks Revo for the idea.

Setup a legend for the green, red and blue, they are obvious but in some people's eyes they can mean something else.

 

I reported the thread btw to ask the mods to pin the thread so it dont get lost in the mix of new threads, hopefully it will be granted.

 

Plans:

- Organize the listings based on subject, and put them in a spoiler to prevent scrolling, and for a quicker and more efficient means to get information specific to what your looking for.

- Gather more information for each of the listings if one dont have one, the info will be either details, or some background on it.

 

If anyone has anything else to add, or confirm on the list, let me know and i'll update it accordingly

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Hey, one of my favourite Arma topics and a great compilation! 👍

 

A couple of things caught my eye though.

 

"AI cannot see through any vegetation"
Perhaps it would be worth to specify that they can not see through any solid vegetation. Many trees and bushes are partly semi-transparent and have holes in them. And the visual appearance doesn't always reflect the actual view geometry.

 

You could mention AI's hearing works a lot like vision, as in solid objects will occlude the sound.

 

"AI can still spot you if you are partially sticking out behind cover even if they haven't seen you initially"
Unless this has changed in the last two years, AI can only see your "central nervous system" so to speak. They can't spot your limbs or sides of torso, only the head and spine. This is why you can hide behind traffic sign posts for example.

 

One cool tidbit I didn't see here: AI has 120 degree field of view (IIRC) and will detect objects right in front of them more easily than on the edges. Although, since AI usually keeps looking around constantly, the effective field is almost 360.

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Neat thread, A for effort.

Here are some videos I made a while ago.

 

If the vegetation is dense enough and you absolutely don't move, not even look around or stick out, as @Greenfist stated, the AI won't spot you even if you're revealed via script command so he knows you're somewhere around.

 

About AI hearing footsteps they actually do, if you don't use walking pace (which is unbound by default if I remember right) and crawl within 5-7m.

 

And my favorite, ghillie next to the road, unspotted by the patrol.

 

Cheers

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7 hours ago, haleks said:

 

Sadly, no. The radio item only changes the com channel AI will use - it has no influence on information sharing. I remember a dev confirming that on the forum.

Arma soldiers are telepaths. Or they have 2035 high tech brain implants.

I have long suspected this. So this confirmation saddens me very much. Especially for low-tech warfare, e.g. 50s-60s wars of independence, WW2 mods, etc. where most infantry didn't have access to a radio, even a walkie-talkie.

This therefore limits their tactical awareness. i.e. infantry would communicate by shouted commands and therefore limited in speed and distance of communication.

This constraint is fine but it severely impacts tactics. So its a shame that AI cannot adapt their tactics to reflect a lack of radio.

 

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I have long suspected this. So this confirmation saddens me very much.

Yup, i agree, i wish this telepathic form of communication was removed its been the same since the series started as far as i can tell, Bis needs to look into this aspect

which if it were removed then the AI response may be different granted they have radios and the can actually communicate with them.

What would be really cool is if units are within earshot of each other that instead of radio comm, they just can just call out the orders, it would be like when your using taskforce radio mod for local, and then long distance

just think the tone, the beeps, the crackle of the comm for AI would add some immersion to your game especially if your in a squad led or leading AI.

  Update

- Changed the description to the thread.

- Set the following to true and added descriptions to them along with videos  (thanks Greenfist and Grumpy Old Man for your guys input!)

11 hours ago, Gunter Severloh said:

AI can still spot you if you are partially sticking out behind cover even if they haven't seen you initially - TRUE

 

11 hours ago, Gunter Severloh said:

 

11 hours ago, Gunter Severloh said:

AI cannot see you if your lying prone in a ghillie suit - TRUE (depends on type of vegetation, and terrain) video

 

11 hours ago, Gunter Severloh said:

AI has 120 degree field of view (IIRC) and will detect objects right in front of them more easily than on the edges - TRUE    (since AI usually keeps looking around constantly, the effective field is almost 360)

 

11 hours ago, Gunter Severloh said:

AI Can hear footsteps - TRUE  video

 

More updates to come!

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Quote

 

  11 hours ago, Gunter Severloh said:

AI Can hear footsteps - TRUE  video

 

That video looks more like they can't hear footsteps.

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Great thread, a lot of hard graft to put this together.

 

May I suggest something, from a usability perspective to, Instead of bullet points, assign each a numerical value.

 

  • AI will not shoot you through bushes, if he did not see you before - TRUE (fixed in OA and merged)

Would be:

  1. AI will not shoot you through bushes, if he did not see you before - TRUE (fixed in OA and merged)

 

That way, when talking about them below or in an external thread one can refer to this thread and the numerical number for easier reference.

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That video looks more like they can't hear footsteps.

They can!

He was walking very slow + crouching at the end which will pretty much lower all movement noise.

Same situation with normal movement would have made A.I. aware of him if within 10 - 15 meters to the A.I. unit.

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I'm pretty sure the AI can't "hear" footsteps per say - I have a dummy man class with no footstep sounds in Ravage and will do some tests to confirm this.

Most likely, the AI is sensitive to nearby movements, regardless of surrounding objects/occlusions, and it gives the impression they do hear you walking or running.

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11 hours ago, Grahame said:

Excellent list, let's keep tuning and adding. Here's one for you:

 

  • AI drivers hate can-openers (actually any small object with PhysX I believe) and will avoid them, meaning that if you place them under wrecks then the AI will drive around them improving their ability to navigate down roads with obstacles dramatically - TRUE

 

If I was to write an "obstacle avoidance system" based on this, who shall I credit for such a brilliant idea?

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There are a couple of things players can do that really help ai in this series. From 2016 A3 tests.

 

One obviously, is to use modded ai. However if your not really into modded ai, you can use just a couple of parts from ai mods that work well.. Zeu_Findcover is great, if used just on its own along with vanilla ai, can make ai much better.

 

Two, behavioural triggers are something I have used for yrs in sp. They are fairly easy to setup and make the ai much more effective.

Some don't like crouch (in the second video) much, I prefer crouch above every other stance, mainly because it keeps them aware of the surrounding, without being too visible. Not only that, but the ai I use, always uses height ie, building, rooftops, balconies etc to their advantage. So keeping your head down and that of your side, is something that has to be done. But the nice thing about stance/behavioural triggers is that you choose, you become the trainer of your units that way. 

 

So a simple trigger or two can make a difference. First trigger I use when engaging enemy is for ai of every side to go prone initially. Second trigger, after whatever break you think you want (10-15secs), is to come upto crouch, this really has to be used with the findcover pbo, because by the time they come up, they will be in cover.

Now these triggers act like a recommended stance for ai, they 'will and do' use, run, prone, stand etc if required. But overall they will use your preferred choice via the trigger. That is what testing and in-game has shown me over, well, probably hundreds of times. Plus with triggers, I see no hit at all performance wise. Now that depends on what your running etc, so may be different for each player, so testing is the way to go.

 

Two videos, the first vanilla ai. They don't act terribly bad, but they just don't get to cover quick enough. This means the first firefight was over in just a few minutes. Second video, you'll see is different, with very little used by mods, just zeu_findcover & triggers (which you setup yourself).

 

Now this is a few years ago, so not sure if A3 ai have changed much regards cover. But still worth looking at.

 

First; Vanilla ai from 2016..

 

 

Second; zeu_findcover & two behavioural/stance triggers. Then just vanilla on the whole.

 

Behavioural/ stance triggers = how you want them in combat mode (use colours), what stance to use (preferred), then speed (limited, always for me), then timers. Set the trigger up as you would usually.

 

But these are your choices, use whatever you think best that suits your play style.

 

Note: triggers will need to be attached to groups/units etc. Its really like a mod, without a mod.

 

Really what your seeing is, vanilla ai with your training (triggers).. But a must 'zeu_findcover pbo'.

Once the ai (even vanilla), are able to flesh out a firefight, they will amaze most players. It's giving them the time to do that and getting them into cover.

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1 hour ago, haleks said:

 

If I was to write an "obstacle avoidance system" based on this, who shall I credit for such a brilliant idea?

I don't know who would have first noticed this but TheVampire (notable for, among many things, the creation of the DayZ Mission System for the mod) who educated me. He made clear just how much effect this has in a video (the first run through the road strewn with obstacles is with can openers placed and the second is without😞

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/qxkn7zffxkckmtt/CanOpeners.mp4?dl=0

 

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I believe (though willing to be corrected if I have misunderstood) that the issue is that some objects used as debris, especially but not limited to vehicle wrecks have no PhysX and thus the AI cannot detect them and will simply crash into them - and perhaps just get stuck at that position just ramming them gently over and over again as can be seen in the second part of the above video. With an object that does have PhysX, they know it is there and avoid it.

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2 hours ago, snkman said:

They can!

He was walking very slow + crouching at the end which will pretty much lower all movement noise.

Same situation with normal movement would have made A.I. aware of him if within 10 - 15 meters to the A.I. unit.


That might all be true, but the video that is supposed to prove this does not prove it. (So basically R3vo doesn't say the statement is wrong, but he says the video doesn't prove the statement.)

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2 hours ago, haleks said:

I'm pretty sure the AI can't "hear" footsteps per say - I have a dummy man class with no footstep sounds in Ravage and will do some tests to confirm this.

Most likely, the AI is sensitive to nearby movements, regardless of surrounding objects/occlusions, and it gives the impression they do hear you walking or running.

Aural detection of movement is based on speed. (I'm not sure if different stances have different noise coefficients).

This was very obvious back when units had a slight offset between their actual position and the point they pivot around when turning. A quick turn in place could raise your "noise" level as if you were moving at 50km/h.

Objects do occlude sounds though. Try running behind an AI with and without a wall between you two.

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Someone did a melee script or mod, can't remember for A3. I tested it in stealth and it worked fine. Creeping up behind enemy units wasn't an issue. Problem was the animation, didn't look good.

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