I am disgusted

[DarkLight 0]

How can someone possibly think the C 130 movie was great, all i see is some idiots that bomb soldiers who are running in every direction. And everytime they have a direct hit the pilots scream "BOOOOOMM", while i can see parts of the victim flying all over the place. Sheesh, they almost sound like one of those pursuit programs where cops follow some stupid criminal and eventually capture him. You know the kind of show that has a "never run from the cops cuz they'll get you anyway" lesson connected to it, with their dumb comments during the show. Excuse me for posting this, but i just had to, the way those pilots talk is just horrible.

They really show that none of them care about the life of others, seriously, just bombing the shit outta people and having a great time doing it is just sick.

I especially was surprised when i saw someone replying this: "Awesome!".

Excuse me? Since when is seeing people getting killed something awesome? It's an impressive video that clearly shows what this plane can do, but this video is everything but awesome.

Sorry that i'm posting this, but if some people really enjoy watching people getting bombed then maybe it's time to shoot my head off, this world is getting waaaaaaaay to fucked up.

I never thought i'd EVER say this but thank god our great mods closed that thread!

[Jinef 2]

It is in bad taste, but now according to George Bush we can treat terorists as sub human beings so lot's of people are going to enjoy this sort of shit.

I have to say i agree with you on the unprofessionalism and i hope our guys (RAF) aren't that sick. I think it's just part of the American culture to glorify war and killing and one man armies like Die Hard movies show this. I'm not one of those people who say they should be banned and it's the cause for all problems in society, but obviously some people do take it the wrong way.

What is even more annoying is we are watching this footage and we don't even know if they are 'terrorists' or not, they were very probably a tribe that it came across and decided to shoot. I'm not saying that it would be justified to kill them even if they were terrorists, i would much prefer to see them in a prison but americans seem to want blood for the terrorist attacks and we are only going to see more of this filth filter down to entertain small minded beings who still cry at the thoughts of planes crashing into bulidings. Maybe if they read Tom Clancy as well as the terrorists then it wouldn't have happened!

[Akira 0]

You seem to think that the pilots and gunners are just inhuman monsters with no regard to life. And THAT is disgusting.

In order for anyone to kill someone in war you have to FORGET that that is a human that you are killing. You have to dehumanize the enemy. Make them "Its". You think they won't be dealing with it when they have time to think it over?

This has been happening since war started. Pilots in WW2 were the SAME way. You ever hear the tapes during Midway? The pilots refer to "it" (the carrier) burning and "it" exploding. You think they could have done it knowing that there were hundreds of people they were killing. No. It was a job that HAD to be done to save their country and their friends. They had to turn it into a game, filled with "its". You think about it you hesitate and you die. Its that simple.

[Frisbee 0]

Hey,maybe this'll be on tv soon.

'When the US strikes back'

Educates everyone to treat everything US nicely,because if you don't,you deserve everything that follows.

[/sarcasm]

Anyway,I haven't seen it,but it sounds like soldiers who've been thirsting for battle way too long.Pretty sick imho yeah.

[Akira 0]

What do you expect?

That is what they are trained to do.

I have a real problem criticizing the people that we KNOW are trained to kill, and who do it abstinsively for us, in order to protect us. Its the way for any soldier.

[Mr. Snrub 0]

Akira is right - more often than not, military personnel (Air Force personnel in particular, as they are rather more distant) tend - at least try - to dissassociate their actions with killing other people. This would make their job a lot easier to do and to justify. Some of the younger soldiers would have probably been largely desensitised to violence, and seeing something destroyed (particularly on video screen) wouldn't be too far removed from another movie. The pilot's were more than likely excited (or whatever they were, I didn't see the movie) because they had achieved their objective which they had been tasked, not because they had knocked off half a dozen other humans.

I completely agree that people on these forums should have known better - they knew what they were watching, and should understand that nothing in war is 'awesome'. DarkLight is right when he said that the equipment in full-swing might be an impressive sight, but it's results are far from it.

[Die Alive 0]

If you don't like hearing "Awesome" or "Boom" then maybe the Air Force should brainwash it's pilots ot say "SOLDIER IS HISTROY" or "I GOT HIM", or "OH NO, ONE IS DOWN".

The pilots aren't OFP AI, they're not robots (yet), let them celebrate how they like.

Now I'm off to find that video clip.

-=Die Alive=-

[Aaron Kane 0]

Mr. Snrub for president!

[Guest]

Both Akira and Darklight are right IMO. It is understandable that the pilots celebrate their kills. You can't apply normal rules and moral in a war. It is however disturbing and sad that civilian people watch that video and think it is 'cool' and 'awsome'. There is something just terribly wrong with that.

[ran 0]

these kinds of videos should be considered as military material and if not classified , there use and distribution should be highly restricted

[Maraudeur 0]

WOW.

So some of you guys think that soldiers should be no brainers ? No heart ?

And who and how will you choose to become this, and how will you made a training and a world for them to become those robot soldiers ?

Or is the good question : Do they already exists like this ?

Do you know what's wondefull with human type of living form ?

It is that they are able to feel, to conceptualise feelings, to decide what is life, to decide that for some reasons killing and beeing killed can worth it, or not.

And to do what they have to do in full conscience of theyr acts, accepting it or not.

To perform it whatever the cost, human and psychological could be, and to go further, to surmount it.

Do you know what's awful with humans ?

It is that they can go below animal status when deciding to forget whats making them, described in the upper paragraph.

It's easier Simpler

So some people think human robots soldiers are necessary ? This is not human necessity.

This is a system, ethnical, religion related, social, cultural, political and commercial that needs and make them.

What we see is just that.... "" robots "" goes along bad things for humanity future...or is it still humanity ? Humanity without humanity properties ??

So you think in terms of systems ? What is yours ? How a good robot are you ?

[Frisbee 0]

True,that's what I thought,and what I should've said.

Soldiers,men that stand ready to do violence on our behalf.

(something like that)

It would drive you insane if you thought about every person you kill.

But it's still not something to go 'awesome!' about.

(note : sarcasm was a joke,not some remark,forgot the smiley,and it'd be lame to edit it now )

[ran 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Maraudeur @ Dec. 10 2002,18:51)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">WOW.

So some of you guys think that soldiers should be no brainers ? No heart ?

And who and how will you choose to become this, and how will you made a training and a world for them to become those robot soldiers ?

Or is the good question : Do they already exists like this ?

Do you know what's wondefull with human type of living form ?

It is that they are able to feel, to conceptualise feelings, to decide what is life, to decide that for some reasons killing and beeing killed can worth it, or not.

And to do what they have to do in full conscience of theyr acts, accepting it or not.

To perform it whatever the cost, human and psychological could be, and to go further, to surmount it.

Do you know what's awful with humans ?

It is that they can go below animal status when deciding to forget whats making them, described in the upper paragraph.

It's easier  Simpler

So some people think human robots soldiers are necessary ? This is not human necessity.

This is a system, ethnical, religion related, social, cultural, political and commercial that needs and make them.

What we see is just that.... "" robots "" goes along bad things for humanity future...or is it still humanity ? Humanity without humanity properties ??  

So you think in terms of systems ? What is yours ? How a good robot are you ?<span id='postcolor'>

that's why thi kind of video material should be censured , classified or whatever , to avoid all those civilian's reactions and lack of understanding

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ran @ Dec. 10 2002,18:56)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">that's why thi kind of video material should be censured , classified or whatever , to avoid all those civilian's reactions and lack of understanding<span id='postcolor'>

I think such videos would be good if people realized that that little dot on the screen, running away and get blown up is a real man, scared to death, running away just trying to survive. It would raise awareness on what an ugly terrible thing war is. Unfortunately TV and movies has corrupted most of the people so that they only see the whole thing as an abstract show, no more then a video game

[FSPilot 0]

I'm disgusted the way so many people are turning on the U.S. and it's soldiers despite the billions of dollars in financial aid we put into the world, and our intentions to protect ourselves and innocent people. But that's just IMO, I don't want to get off topic.

Yes, pilots are going to get excited when they blow something up. Like it has already been said, you have to de-humanize your targets. I don't think any pilot would be able to live with themselves if they fully realized what their bombs were doing to people. I know I wouldn't.

And you have to admit, it is very impressive. Especially footage of the smart bombs dropped by B-2s. The airplane was at, I estimate, 15,000 feet. Someone's looking out the window with a camera at the targets below. There are I think 6 or 8 of them, and he goes from one target to the next, each of them explode with almost perfect accuracy while the B-2 is completely out of harms way. How can you not be impressed by that?

[Maraudeur 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ Dec. 10 2002,19:03)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ran @ Dec. 10 2002,18:56)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">that's why thi kind of video material should be censured , classified or whatever , to avoid all those civilian's reactions and lack of understanding<span id='postcolor'>

I think such videos would be good if people realized that that little dot on the screen, running away and get blown up is a real man, scared to death, running away just trying to survive. It would raise awareness on what an ugly terrible thing war is. Unfortunately TV and movies has corrupted most of the people so that they only see the whole thing as an abstract show, no more then a video game <span id='postcolor'>

Yes.

And those videos must not be classified.

people need to be educated. Not conditionned.

[Lazarus_Long 0]

Back in World War I there was a big stink about something they called "War Porn". War photographers would publish these horrific pictures of the devastation of war. You know..body parts etc. This thread reminds me of that.

I agree that it is pretty disgusting, and I hope nobody watches these films while actually enjoying them. That's pretty sick. I think that they are very neccessary though. People need to realize what a bullet does to a human being before they start supporting all these war efforts that their governments are involved in. If they could see this stuff on CNN they wouldnt be so eager to send their sons and daughters into war.

As for the airmen in question, they are perfectly justified in being excited about their kills. They are just doing their job.

[Warin 0]

You cant train a man for years and years to kill, and then expect him to be full of remorse and self loathing when he is called on to perform that duty.

I watched the video, and yes..I was a little distressed by how the comms seemed to dehumanize the targets. And as a civilian, I should find myself horrified by the lack of compassion seemingly showed by. But what I find more distressing is that people who should have at least some comprehension of war and how terrible it can be (namely everyone here who has actually played Flashpoint), are griping about people doing something they've been trained to do. War isnt pleasant. So lets cut some professional warriors a bit of slack.

[Tovarish 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (FSPilot @ Dec. 10 2002,19:04)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I'm disgusted the way so many people are turning on the U.S. and it's soldiers despite the billions of dollars in financial aid we put into the world, and our intentions to protect ourselves and innocent people.  But that's just IMO, I don't want to get off topic.<span id='postcolor'>

examples of the US. "protecting the innocent":

-Supporting Dictator Pinochet in his coup against democratically elected socialist Allende in Chile. 1197 people "disappear" after Pinochet takes power. Their names are listed here

-Supporting the regime of the hugely unpopular dictator Batista in Cuba. Not a peep about HIS human rights abuses.

-Not adcknowleging Castro's hugely popular Revolution, throwing a hissy fit when he realized the threat that implied and allied himself with the Soviets for defense. Bay of Pigs.

-Vietnam War. How many innocent civilians do you figure the US killed there vs how many they saved?

-Training and probiding Osama Bin Laden with weapons to fight against the Soviets. Well, at least you've learned your lesson there.

[BaronVonRed 0]

Is this another US bashing thread? Geeze.

Have any of you critics ever taken a life in the name of your country? I have 32 "confirmed kills". Do I lay awake thinking about it? Of course I do. It stays with you EVERYWHERE YOU GO; like a bad mood you can never shake. It's a difficult position to put a human being into, and the effects get worse as you age.

For each kill, you get an overwhelming sense of being alive and the glee associated with the fact that it could have just as easily been YOU . Each soldier's reaction to this will be different, regardless of his national origin.

But each kill was made in the name of liberty, or freedom, or peace, blah blah blah - they were people with loved ones and families, but like was mentioned before, if you start thinking that way, then YOU will be some else's "confirmed kill". You are defending what is right, but as you mature, you realize that it is only heritage; they are defending what they think is right is also. In the end, neither is right, war is a tradgedy, and war is our destiny.

I did not get to see the movie, and yes, it sounds as if they crossed the line of professionalism, but is it necessary to judge an entire country on these reactions? Is it fair to assume that all Americans pilots react this way? Perhaps we should start judging YOUR country by sighting only one or two bad apples?

[STS_SolidSnake 0]

Both sides would do the same so anyway....

[Ex-RoNiN 0]

Why are we even having a discussion here?

The guy said the video was sick and he thanked the mods for closing it. That's all to it.

Hence, he commented on moderator's actions.

We all know that moderator's actions belong to PM.

Closing

[Ex-RoNiN 0]

madmedic has something to say about this:

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">It was an attempt to clear up a mis-understanding with the dreaded "AC-130" thread.

In another thread titled "I AM DISGUSTED", a member mistakenly accuses the AC-130 crew of shouting "BANG", or "BOOM" (or something like that) in celebration, when the targets are fired on.

I was pointing out that this is in-fact NOT what they are shouting.....The "shouting" in the background is the sound of the loader shouting that the cannon is ready to fire, and the gunner acknowledging the loader, before he fires the weapon.

This is a subject that I happen to know something about, and I did not "attack" anybody over the mis-understanding, I merely offered up accurate information regarding nature of the shouting on the film.

<span id='postcolor'>

I hope we can bury this topic now.