This sucks

[Milkman 1]

is it possable to contact BIS and ask them what the deal is with this thing??

[Mr B 0]

I reckon they left the cannon unused to create balance. Think about it this way: every helo in OFP can either be a gunship, or carry troops (with the exception of the hind). If the Mi-17 had the cannon, it would be both, and thus would mean the Russians have two gunships/transports. Without the cannon, the Mi-17 is the equal of the Blackhawk, which leaves the Hind as the approximate equal to the Cobra. Nice and balanced .

Of course, all those patches screw that up big time .

Cheers

Mr B

[SpeedyDonkey 0]

Really who cars about fireing A tiny MGun when you got 192 missiles?

[HellToupee 0]

thing is ofp is all about the interaction between areas, in a flight sim ppl a static ey candy that do nufing, in ofp u sit still they will wip out a rpg and shoot u down if their human. Also counter measures wouldnt do squat in ofp uld have less than a second to react probly, and the streala which ive seen in real life and seen how it works isnt affected by flares, if yourve played falcon 4.0 most realistic flight sim most of the time countermeasures dont work, hit rate of sum air to air missles is 80%. And as for being dead meet to aa soldiers thats realistc at the heights u fly at, see the russian hele that got shot down, a big lumbering helecopter down low would be dead meet it wouldnt even have tiome to react.

[Mr B 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">And as for being dead meet to aa soldiers thats realistc at the heights u fly at, see the russian hele that got shot down, a big lumbering helecopter down low would be dead meet it wouldnt even have tiome to react.

<span id='postcolor'>

I couldn't agree more. If the helo was at 50m (150 ft) and 1 km away from the launcher (1.6 miles) the missile would have to cover just over 1 km to reach the chopper. At twice the speed of sound (Mach 2, or about 1600 knots at sea level = 782 meters per second) it would take the missile just 1.28 SECONDS to cover the distance.

 

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Really who cars about fireing A tiny MGun when you got 192 missiles?  <span id='postcolor'>

The cannon is important because it can engage targets off the nose, so the chopper can cover itself even if it's not pointed directly at the enemy.

Cheers

Mr B

[HellToupee 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Mr B @ Dec. 11 2002,15:58)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The cannon is important because it can engage targets off the nose, so the chopper can cover itself even if it's not pointed directly at the enemy.

Cheers

Mr B<span id='postcolor'>

also the fact that we cant use it so we want to use it

[ID7 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (HellToupee @ Dec. 10 2002,23:49)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Also counter measures wouldnt do squat in ofp uld have less than a second to react probly

<span id='postcolor'>

The flares are released by onboard electronics when an incoming missile is detected. The pilot can also release flares when flying over unsafe territory making it hard for missiles to lock on target.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">

and the streala which ive seen in real life and seen how it works isnt affected by flares

<span id='postcolor'>

I am not sure if you have seen flares used against it but you can be sure that strela is a heat seeker and is affected by flares. A simple missile locked on a heat spot is easily confused by a sudden appeareance of many heat spots (flares).

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">

if yourve played falcon 4.0 most realistic flight sim most of the time countermeasures dont work

<span id='postcolor'>

I think you are confusing electronic countermeasures with chaff/flare stuff.

[Ruskiesrule 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (HellToupee @ Dec. 10 2002,22:49)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">thing is ofp is all about the interaction between areas, in a flight sim ppl a static ey candy that do nufing, in ofp u sit still they will wip out a rpg and shoot u down if their human. Also counter measures wouldnt do squat in ofp uld have less than a second to react probly, and the streala which ive seen in real life and seen how it works isnt affected by flares, if yourve played falcon 4.0 most realistic flight sim most of the time countermeasures dont work, hit rate of sum air to air missles is 80%. And as for being dead meet to aa soldiers thats realistc at the heights u fly at, see the russian hele that got shot down, a big lumbering helecopter down low would be dead meet it wouldnt even have tiome to react.<span id='postcolor'>

yep, i have that!

Its annoying! You just fly along, here your early warning system go off, and you launch some chaff and some flares and then your dead!

I made it automatic!

And when your fighting other aircraft, it takes me on average 2 missiles to hit them, the first one usualy misses!

The only 100% affective thing you can do is get in at 400ft, then select multi-barrel cannon and chop off a wing or hit the fuel tank!

And if your feeling evil, shoot the guys parachute!

[HellToupee 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ID7 @ Dec. 12 2002,07:53)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I am not sure if you have seen flares used against it but you can be sure that strela is a heat seeker and is affected by flares. A simple missile locked on a heat spot is easily confused by a sudden appeareance of many heat spots (flares).<span id='postcolor'>

yes it is a heat seaker but it ahs two guidance systems, cant rember what the other one is, but it takes over if the first one is convused or wat ever this was in the model i was looking at, even got to see how i looked thru the infra red cam on it, the stinger is similar i belive to, als aircrafts radar inst 360 and a heater seaker dsoe not trigger a warning in the plane its tracking.

[dayglow 2]

Most modern seekers are dual band (for the Stinger at least). The track in IR and UV. Also they have a very narrow band that they track so if the flare projects heat in a different band the flare will discard the target. Also modern seekers are starting to use IIR which is imaging infared. Basically it takes a 'snapshot' of the shape of the target and then compares other heat sources against that 'snapshot' and if the alternate image is different, it's discarded.

Oh yeah, chaff and flares are also countermeasures. ECM is 'electronic' counter measures.

COLINMAN

[eXor 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">yep, i have that!

Its annoying! You just fly along, here your early warning system go off, and you launch some chaff and some flares and then your dead!

<span id='postcolor'>

Takes practice.  In realistic sims you can't just jerk at the controls and buttons and hope it misses

Avoidance is better than evasion  so if you can, change your waypoints so that you don't travel near known radar SAM sites or ground troops with shoulder launched infrared sams.

Chaff is for radar missiles so don't waste your flares when you hear your early warning system go off!  Flares are for infrared missiles  and for those you get no warning at all because they don't emit radar energy.

Missiles like the SA-2 are mostly immune to chaff anyway  so the way I avoid them is to put the missile on my 3-9 line so they use up more energy and have much further to travel ( they fly lead pursuit ).  Then when the missile is really close, I do a max G  break turn into it.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">And when your fighting other aircraft, it takes me on average 2 missiles to hit them, the first one usualy misses!

<span id='postcolor'>

Don't fire when they're at the edge of your missile range. A fighter like the Su-27 can just turn around and outrun your missile. You should wait until it's about 10 nm then fire but Sus are deadly, when I see them I try my best to avoid engagement

[Mr B 0]

Quick, someone mention the nose gun before the thread gets locked!!!!!!!

"I think the nose gun looks very fetching."

Whew. Saved

[ID7 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (HellToupee @ Dec. 12 2002,05:24)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">yes it is a heat seaker but it ahs two guidance systems, cant rember what the other one is, but it takes over if the first one is convused

<span id='postcolor'> It just scans more bands which is quite easily overcome by advanced flares. They blind the sensors for a critical amount of time just like human eye is blinded by a very bright light in total darkness. Modern choppers also have significantly reduced heat exhaust.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">als aircrafts radar inst 360 and a heater seaker dsoe not trigger a warning in the plane its tracking.<span id='postcolor'>

There are 360 deg warning radars providing complete coverage for incoming threats. They are vital for low flying planes and choppers. Some catalog reading for you: http://www.elta-iai.com/site/catalog/elect_families/ell8260-2.asp

[ID7 0]

del