The Iraq Thread

[Longinius 1]

"What kind of naive double-talk is that?"

Give me a couple of recent examples where someone has managed to force people into a new way of life without pissing most of them of in the process.

"You can't force solutions on people and yet you are clearly willing to allow dictators (who's very definiton is "force") and terrorists to do just that. Just as long as the US doesn't do it right?"

No, I am not willing to do that. What I am willing to do is let the people of different nations settle their problems by themselves, possibly with aid and education along the way. But definatly NOT by use of weapons.

"You think with the world hands-off aggressors wouldn't pop up? That is the most ridiculous piece of garbage I ever heard."

I didnt say that. Aggressors need to be put out of their misery. But you should remember that if YOU go in, guns blazing, with the intent to change a culture and way of life, then you per definition are the aggressor.

"So what is your point? America funds terrorists? What about your wonderful country and its antipathy to what is going on around it?"

Well, atleast we didnt fund Osama Bin ladin and teach him how to kill innocent people as effciently as possible. We just sat on our asses and watched America do it...

"All I hear is people saying "Go home go home" and then having the nerve to add "until we call on you again." You can't have it both ways and don't expect us to respond at your beck and call and whim, Your Highnesses. "

I didnt say "Go home until we call you again". Its not about us calling you, or anybody else for that matter. We have a UN council to call any of us, if and when we are needed. Everyone else can abide by it, why can't the US?

[Balschoiw 0]

It is not the US that is authorized to decide about global issues or declare states as evil or not. It is a thing of the international community collected under UN mandate. Is that so hard to understand ? The US signed contracts and needs to follow them as any other western nation has to.

So if you insist on upholding military presence in so called "hot spots" do it under the blue flag. Any national intervention can be taken as threat or attack by residents.

Make it easy for both parties. Go along with UN and assure that local conflicts are seddled and furthermore people benefit of a worldwide wellfare program like UNHCR, WFP and other organizations already offer.

[CosmicCastaway 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Akira @ Dec. 16 2002,16:39)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">All I hear is people saying "Go home go home" and then having the nerve to add "until we call on you again." You can't have it both ways and don't expect us to respond at your beck and call and whim, Your Highnesses.<span id='postcolor'>

So you're taking your ball and going home? Seriously though, as has already been said. Go in when asked, do what needs to be done, then withdraw. Works for most things. Need some plumbing done? Call in a plumber, does the job, goes back home. Doesn't hang around your house indefinately, drinking your beer and asking if the plumbing is ok every now and then.

[bn880 5]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Akira @ Dec. 16 2002,10:07)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Ex-RoNiN @ Dec. 16 2002,13:39)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I still insist - disband your bases and go home, and don't come back out anywhere unless the UN asks you to.

Bang, you have 98% of the hate defeated, no more excuses for terrorism. You will be able to live in peace, others will be able to live in peace.

I recommended this earlier, you said it would mean capitulation. It may seem like it, but it would be a great victory in fact. You would stop all the fanatical anti-US postures all over the world and people wouldn't get killed in wars on terror as the terror wouldn't exist anymore.

And putting the US under UN command (like the rest of the world has done) would even bring praise.

Right now I can't see the point of having US bases all over the place, other than "safeguarding" your pseudo-empire.<span id='postcolor'>

So basically you are saying we should go home and then only come out when the rest of the world needs us again. What I am hearing is no one wants the US out there until they need us. Well you all can screw off then.<span id='postcolor'>

Wait a second, you think there is something wrong with that? As an example: I only call pest/insect control to spray when I want them to control a problem, then I appreciate if they back off and stop spraying their poison when it's not needed. Are you any different? Would you like to pay a company $300 to spray your house one day, and then have them do it every day? Until maybe you feel like selling your property cheap so that a road can be built across it? (ahh, I just remembered, any analogy is not understood by you guys... too bad)

SO you should screw off. (I'm leveling with you)

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I assure you that we go home the world can handle its own problems without us because we ain't coming back out for YOU.

<span id='postcolor'> You and pilot must be working for Bush to make claims like that.

Instead, why doesn't the US just behave like a civilized nation?

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">And if you think that the US withdrawing will defeat "the hate" and end terrorism you are way too naive. There is always another cause. Whether it be Israel or sand in their jockeys. <span id='postcolor'> YES, Israel is one of the main causes, so you would have to stop sending BILLIONS and weapons in there. Mind you there needs to be a good plan and peace keeping force there. If the US gets rid of it's double standards and immoral policies, why would you expect terrorism there??? This baffles me completely, it's not like other nations want your women like in some bar fight between morons.

[bn880 5]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (CosmicCastaway @ Dec. 16 2002,11:10)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Akira @ Dec. 16 2002,16:39)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">All I hear is people saying "Go home go home" and then having the nerve to add "until we call on you again." You can't have it both ways and don't expect us to respond at your beck and call and whim, Your Highnesses.<span id='postcolor'>

So you're taking your ball and going home? Seriously though, as has already been said. Go in when asked, do what needs to be done, then withdraw. Works for most things. Need some plumbing done? Call in a plumber, does the job, goes back home. Doesn't hang around your house indefinately, drinking your beer and asking if the plumbing is ok every now and then. <span id='postcolor'>

Yeah man, I was going to use that one too!

[CosmicCastaway 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (bn880 @ Dec. 16 2002,17:25)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Yeah man, I was going to use that one too!  <span id='postcolor'>

So many analogies, so little time...

[Akira 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (CosmicCastaway @ Dec. 16 2002,17:10)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Akira @ Dec. 16 2002,16:39)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">All I hear is people saying "Go home go home" and then having the nerve to add "until we call on you again." You can't have it both ways and don't expect us to respond at your beck and call and whim, Your Highnesses.<span id='postcolor'>

So you're taking your ball and going home? Seriously though, as has already been said. Go in when asked, do what needs to be done, then withdraw. Works for most things. Need some plumbing done? Call in a plumber, does the job, goes back home. Doesn't hang around your house indefinately, drinking your beer and asking if the plumbing is ok every now and then. <span id='postcolor'>

Really?

'Cause last time I checked the plumber doesn't have to transport billions of dollars of equipment at his own expense, thousands of miles everytime you feel like you just might need his services. Ever look at the plumbers bill. See that little notation called "Labor"? If he did I'm sure he might set up a little room in your house so he doesn't have to constantly lug his equipment all over the place everytime your faucet springs a leak.

And we wouldn't drink your beer if you didn't make it so tasty

[bn880 5]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Akira @ Dec. 16 2002,11:33)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (CosmicCastaway @ Dec. 16 2002,17:10)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Akira @ Dec. 16 2002,16:39)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">All I hear is people saying "Go home go home" and then having the nerve to add "until we call on you again." You can't have it both ways and don't expect us to respond at your beck and call and whim, Your Highnesses.<span id='postcolor'>

So you're taking your ball and going home? Seriously though, as has already been said. Go in when asked, do what needs to be done, then withdraw. Works for most things. Need some plumbing done? Call in a plumber, does the job, goes back home. Doesn't hang around your house indefinately, drinking your beer and asking if the plumbing is ok every now and then. <span id='postcolor'>

Really?

'Cause last time I checked the plumber doesn't have to transport billions of dollars of equipment at his own expense, thousands of miles everytime you feel like you just might need his services. Ever look at the plumbers bill. See that little notation called "Labor"? If he did I'm sure he might set up a little room in your house so he doesn't have to constantly lug his equipment all over the place everytime your faucet springs a leak.

And we wouldn't drink your beer if you didn't make it so tasty <span id='postcolor'>

Basically what you are saying is you are not willing to help without great benefit to the US. You are not a good samaritan, human rights are less important than money.

Second: There are usually agreed upon rewards, except the US is waaaaay to gready later.

Third: So far the US has had a good income from its investmens acoss the borders.

[CosmicCastaway 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Akira @ Dec. 16 2002,17:33)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">'Cause last time I checked the plumber doesn't have to transport billions of dollars of equipment at his own expense, thousands of miles everytime you feel like you just might need his services. Ever look at the plumbers bill. See that little notation called "Labor"? If he did I'm sure he might set up a little room in your house so he doesn't have to constantly lug his equipment all over the place everytime your faucet springs a leak.

And we wouldn't drink your beer if you didn't make it so tasty <span id='postcolor'>

If the plumber didn't fix the leak properly in the first place, I would expect him to come back at no extra charge.

My god, this whole discussion is full of imagery!

[Akira 0]

I originally wasn't going to reply to this offensive personally insulting load of cat crap...but like many things I just can't let it go

Wait a second, you think there is something wrong with that? As an example: I only call pest/insect control to spray when I want them to control a problem, then I appreciate if they back off and stop spraying their poison when it's not needed. Are you any different? Would you like to pay a company $300 to spray your house one day, and then have them do it every day? Until maybe you feel like selling your property cheap so that a road can be built across it? (ahh, I just remembered, any analogy is not understood by you guys... too bad)

SO you should screw off. (I'm leveling with you)

I responded to the first analogy above. So you can take your condescending pompous crap talk and shove it. I don't treat you with such disdain and disrespect and expect the same from you, otherwise you can quit responding to my posts.

And for the record when I said "you can screw off"...I was speaking of the world...not "YOU".

You and pilot must be working for Bush to make claims like that.

Instead, why doesn't the US just behave like a civilized nation?

No...just an indignant reply after being asked for 50 odd years to protect another continent and then being told to leave "until we call you again".

YES, Israel is one of the main causes, so you would have to stop sending BILLIONS and weapons in there. Mind you there needs to be a good plan and peace keeping force there. If the US gets rid of it's double standards and immoral policies, why would you expect terrorism there??? This baffles me completely, it's not like other nations want your women like in some bar fight between morons.

You think OUR involvement there matters ANY? Check your history all the way back to the Pharohs. Jews and Arabs have been at each other since long before then as well. And we will support an ally that is basically fighting an ongoing continueing war.

But as well there needs to be some peace keeping or plan or SOMETHING there. I'm not even going to talk about the so called "occupied" territory...that just opens up another can.

[Akira 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (CosmicCastaway @ Dec. 16 2002,17:44)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Akira @ Dec. 16 2002,17:33)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">'Cause last time I checked the plumber doesn't have to transport billions of dollars of equipment at his own expense, thousands of miles everytime you feel like you just might need his services. Ever look at the plumbers bill. See that little notation called "Labor"? If he did I'm sure he might set up a little room in your house so he doesn't have to constantly lug his equipment all over the place everytime your faucet springs a leak.

And we wouldn't drink your beer if you didn't make it so tasty <span id='postcolor'>

If the plumber didn't fix the leak properly in the first place, I would expect him to come back at no extra charge.

My god, this whole discussion is full of imagery! <span id='postcolor'>

But what if the plumber completed the task it was given? Whether by the customer or by the Great Plumbing World Council? If the GPWC tasked the plumber and the plumber went and did exaclty what the GPWC wanted....yet that didn't fix your leak...is the plumber to blame? Or the GPWC?

And what if your leak started from your own mis-handling or bad actions? So the plumber is tasked to come in and fix it and he tries his best, but the faucet will never be the same. Is that his fault as well?

Oh...I think I'm starting to like this :o

[Akira 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (bn880 @ Dec. 16 2002,17:37)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Akira @ Dec. 16 2002,11:33)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (CosmicCastaway @ Dec. 16 2002,17:10)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Akira @ Dec. 16 2002,16:39)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">All I hear is people saying "Go home go home" and then having the nerve to add "until we call on you again." You can't have it both ways and don't expect us to respond at your beck and call and whim, Your Highnesses.<span id='postcolor'>

So you're taking your ball and going home? Seriously though, as has already been said. Go in when asked, do what needs to be done, then withdraw. Works for most things. Need some plumbing done? Call in a plumber, does the job, goes back home. Doesn't hang around your house indefinately, drinking your beer and asking if the plumbing is ok every now and then. <span id='postcolor'>

Really?

'Cause last time I checked the plumber doesn't have to transport billions of dollars of equipment at his own expense, thousands of miles everytime you feel like you just might need his services. Ever look at the plumbers bill. See that little notation called "Labor"? If he did I'm sure he might set up a little room in your house so he doesn't have to constantly lug his equipment all over the place everytime your faucet springs a leak.

And we wouldn't drink your beer if you didn't make it so tasty <span id='postcolor'>

Basically what you are saying is you are not willing to help without great benefit to the US. You are not a good samaritan, human rights are less important than money.

Second: There are usually agreed upon rewards, except the US is waaaaay to gready later.

Third: So far the US has had a good income from its investmens acoss the borders.<span id='postcolor'>

First off I never said I was a good samaritan but that is beside the point.

I didn't say ANYTHING about "great gain" to the US! I don't know exactly where that came from, but the sad reality is it costs BOOKU money to move that crap around to wherever whenever someone comes a' callin'.

And exactly what rewards has the US recieved considering we are in DEBT to the UN?

And what does investments have to do with anything? What has that got to do with uprooting and moving an entire battalion across the world whenever the UN comes asking for help?

[bn880 5]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Akira @ Dec. 16 2002,11:48)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I originally wasn't going to reply to this offensive personally insulting load of cat crap...but like many things I just can't let it go

Wait a second, you think there is something wrong with that? As an example: I only call pest/insect control to spray when I want them to control a problem, then I appreciate if they back off and stop spraying their poison when it's not needed. Are you any different? Would you like to pay a company $300 to spray your house one day, and then have them do it every day? Until maybe you feel like selling your property cheap so that a road can be built across it? (ahh, I just remembered, any analogy is not understood by you guys... too bad)

SO you should screw off. (I'm leveling with you)

I responded to the first analogy above. So you can take your condescending pompous crap talk and shove it. I don't treat you with such disdain and disrespect and expect the same from you, otherwise you can quit responding to my posts.

And for the record when I said "you can screw off"...I was speaking of the world...not "YOU".

You and pilot must be working for Bush to make claims like that.

Instead, why doesn't the US just behave like a civilized nation?

No...just an indignant reply after being asked for 50 odd years to protect another continent and then being told to leave "until we call you again".

YES, Israel is one of the main causes, so you would have to stop sending BILLIONS and weapons in there. Mind you there needs to be a good plan and peace keeping force there. If the US gets rid of it's double standards and immoral policies, why would you expect terrorism there??? This baffles me completely, it's not like other nations want your women like in some bar fight between morons.

You think OUR involvement there matters ANY? Check your history all the way back to the Pharohs. Jews and Arabs have been at each other since long before then as well. And we will support an ally that is basically fighting an ongoing continueing war.

But as well there needs to be some peace keeping or plan or SOMETHING there. I'm not even going to talk about the so called "occupied" territory...that just opens up another can.<span id='postcolor'>

Did you forget how to use Quote tags? Because I think we have people around who can instruct you on that. Stop whining, it was not offensive.

EDIT: You have just flamed me there.

EDIT2: you forgot you said this "Well you all can screw off then. " which I leveled with you on.

[Guest]

Ok now kids, calm down, all of you. Or uncle denoir will get the Big Stick

[CosmicCastaway 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Akira @ Dec. 16 2002,17:52)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><span id='postcolor'>

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">But what if the plumber completed the task it was given? <span id='postcolor'>

I'd thank him very much and he'd go home.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">So the plumber is tasked to come in and fix it and he tries his best, but the faucet will never be the same. Is that his fault as well?<span id='postcolor'>

If it can't be fixed, I'd replace it with a new one of my choosing, but I wouldn't hand the process of picking a new one over to the plumber. I might ask for his advice, but I wouldn't let him have the final say in which one i picked.

All this talk of plumbing is making me want a shower, strangely.

[CosmicCastaway 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ Dec. 16 2002,18:03)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Ok now kids, calm down, all of you. Or uncle denoir will get the Big Stick™  <span id='postcolor'>

Can I borrow that? I need to clear some drains.

[bn880 5]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ Dec. 16 2002,12:03)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Ok now kids, calm down, all of you. Or uncle denoir will get the Big Stick? <span id='postcolor'>

Ok. Waaaaa, I want my mommy.

[Akira 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ Dec. 16 2002,18:03)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Ok now kids, calm down, all of you. Or uncle denoir will get the Big Stickâ„¢ <span id='postcolor'>

Damn pervert Mods!

[Akira 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (CosmicCastaway @ Dec. 16 2002,18:04)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Akira @ Dec. 16 2002,17:52)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><span id='postcolor'>

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">But what if the plumber completed the task it was given? <span id='postcolor'>

I'd thank him very much and he'd go home.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">So the plumber is tasked to come in and fix it and he tries his best, but the faucet will never be the same. Is that his fault as well?<span id='postcolor'>

If it can't be fixed, I'd replace it with a new one of my choosing, but I wouldn't hand the process of picking a new one over to the plumber. I might ask for his advice, but I wouldn't let him have the final say in which one i picked.

All this talk of plumbing is making me want a shower, strangely. <span id='postcolor'>

Naturally I don't think the plumber should have the final choice. Naturally the people that would be using the faucet the most should choose.

But what if the person isn't at all used to picking faucets? What if the person has had someone tell them for 50 years what faucet to have but that they can't use it? What if the person is never allowed to pick or use the faucet? Would you want the plumber to hang around a bit, maybe instruct you on its use and how the Great New Faucet works and how it can benefit you? What if there was a chance that the faucet you picked breaks pretty soon and starts throwing water all over your kitchen and destroying your kitchen? Wouldn't you want the plumber for a bit to make sure that doesn't happen, and if it does to help with a new faucet?

And no the plumber isn't there just to steal all your Canola oil either.

[theavonlady 2]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ Dec. 16 2002,19:03)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Ok now kids, calm down, all of you. Or uncle denoir will get the Big Stickâ„¢<span id='postcolor'>

A bit excessive, Denoir, aren't we?

[CosmicCastaway 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Akira @ Dec. 16 2002,18:14)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><span id='postcolor'>

Like I said

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I might ask for his advice...

<span id='postcolor'>

Sure, give advice on what best to choose, but listen to what the owners want and suggest appropriately. Once it's all set up and running, fair-the-well plumber man have a nice trip home. I'm willing to risk the occasional dripping tap, I mean what kitchen doesnt have the occasional faulty washer? Give me a little time and I'll work out how to change my own washers, and fix my own dripping taps.

Good fun this innit?  

I'm off home from work shortly, so I won't be able to contribute to the 'plumbing adventure' for a while.  

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Akira @ Dec. 16 2002,18:08)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">3--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ Dec. 16 2002,183)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Ok now kids, calm down, all of you. Or uncle denoir will get the Big Stick™  <span id='postcolor'>

Damn pervert Mods!<span id='postcolor'>

Stop drooling Akira! I said Big Stickâ„¢ not My Big Stickâ„¢®©

I think Avon had a picture of it.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (theavonlady @ Dec. 16 2002,18:21)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">A bit excessive, Denoir, aren't we?

<span id='postcolor'>

Yes, imagine the pain when I hit you in the head with one of those

[bn880 5]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Akira @ Dec. 16 2002,12:14)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">But what if the person isn't at all used to picking faucets? What if the person has had someone tell them for 50 years what faucet to have but that they can't use it? What if the person is never allowed to pick or use the faucet? Would you want the plumber to hang around a bit, maybe instruct you on its use and how the Great New Faucet works and how it can benefit you? What if there was a chance that the faucet you picked breaks pretty soon and starts throwing water all over your kitchen and destroying your kitchen? Wouldn't you want the plumber for a bit to make sure that doesn't happen, and if it does to help with a new faucet?

And no the plumber isn't there just to steal all your Canola oil either.<span id='postcolor'>

And then what if the plumber is told "thank you for your services, you got your dollars, we'll call you, don't call us"?

[FSPilot 0]

Yes Denoir has a big stick, but when was the last time he spoke softly?

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The deaths of those in the WTC were of course tragic, but in absolute terms insignificant. They did make good TV of course and its always easy to be scared of the 'barbarians who are going to kill us all'. While I am sure part of that irrational fear is real, it is fueled by those in power. Joining against a common evil enemy makes you forget your other problems, right? I mean Bush's approval rating sky rocketed from under 50% to over 90% in one day. And what had he achieved? Failing to protect his people from terrorist acts. But who cares, we have the 'evil doers' now to blame.<span id='postcolor'>

Ok, so by this logic I can shoot an innocent person in the head each day for the rest of my life. Hey, I'm not making any big statistics, I'm not hurting anyone.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Yes, where are all the terrorist acts? It's been over a year and a lot of threat warnings have come and gone, without anything happening.<span id='postcolor'>

Nobody said we were going to have a new attack each week. And we've also been stopping a lot of them before they happen.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Exactly, so why go invading countries then? The terrorists can and will get caught through international policing. Since the terrorists are spread out through the world and not associated with any specific country, what's the point of running around invading other countries? As you said, its useless against somthing like terrorism.<span id='postcolor'>

The governments we're attacking support terrorism. I guess what I said earlier was sort of an overstatement. Armies can be used to take out a government that supports terrorism, but probably not to do a lot of investigating and charge people for terrorism in some international court.

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (FSPilot @ Dec. 16 2002,19:29)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Ok, so by this logic I can shoot an innocent person in the head each day for the rest of my life.  Hey, I'm not making any big statistics, I'm not hurting anyone.

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No, what I am saying that even if you are killing an innocent person, there is no reason for fear. The probability for somebody getting killed by you would be very small. You would be an insignifican threat to the overall society.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Nobody said we were going to have a new attack each week.  And we've also been stopping a lot of them before they happen.<span id='postcolor'>

Really? A lot of them? Can you provide a list?

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Exactly, so why go invading countries then? The terrorists can and will get caught through international policing. Since the terrorists are spread out through the world and not associated with any specific country, what's the point of running around invading other countries? As you said, its useless against somthing like terrorism.<span id='postcolor'>

The governments we're attacking support terrorism.  I guess what I said earlier was sort of an overstatement.  Armies can be used to take out a government that supports terrorism, but probably not to do a lot of investigating and charge people for terrorism in some international court.<span id='postcolor'>

How many people of the ones killed in Afganistan do you think were connected to AQ? As for the international court, it's the ICC that Bush decided not to join. Terrorists are criminals and should be dealt like criminals. As Afganistan showed, attacking the country where they might or might not be staying at the moment doesn't help at all. Osama is still alive and kicking. And nobody has managed to produce any proof that Iraq has ever had any connections to AQ.