Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
brgnorway

The Iraq Thread

Recommended Posts

The politics are getting pretty interesting here in the UK right now. A prominent member of the cabinet -Clare Short (Secretary of International Development) has stated that she will resign from the government if a war takes place without a new UN resolution being passed.

Quite a number of other members of parliament have threatened to resign as well .. Tony Blair will really have to pull something out of the hat to prevent his leadership of the labour party going up in flames or at least being seriously undermined. Change is in the air...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (IsthatyouJohnWayne @ Mar. 10 2003,19:53)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The politics are getting pretty interesting here in the UK right now. A prominent member of the cabinet -Clare Short (Secretary of International Development) has stated that she will resign from the government if a war takes place without a new UN resolution being passed.

Quite a number of other members of parliament have threatened to resign as well .. Tony Blair will really have to pull something out of the hat to prevent his leadership of the labour party going up in flames or at least being seriously undermined. Change is in the air...<span id='postcolor'>

On the other hand - if it's to be voted on again next week, Blair will ironicly receive enough votes for a war - provided by the Tory-members. I suppose that will leave the labour party in tatters though - or at least Blair's future political career.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Die Alive @ Mar. 10 2003,19:50)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">SADDAM'S SOLDIERS SURRENDER

Mar 9 2003

Mike Hamilton reports from Camp Coyote in Kuwait

TERRIFIED Iraqi soldiers have crossed the Kuwait border and tried to surrender to British forces - because they thought the war had already started.

The motley band of a dozen troops waved the white flag as British paratroopers tested their weapons during a routine exercise.

The stunned Paras from 16 Air Assault Brigade were forced to tell the Iraqis they were not firing at them, and ordered them back to their home country telling them it was too early to surrender.

The drama unfolded last Monday as the Para batallion tested mortars and artillery weapons to make sure they were working properly.

The Iraqis found a way across the fortified border, which is sealed off with barbed-wire fencing, watchtowers and huge trenches.

A British Army source in Kuwait contacted me to explain how the extraordinary surrender bid unfolded. The source said: "The British guys on the front-line could not believe what was happening. They were on pre-war exercises when all of a sudden these Iraqis turned up out of nowhere, with their hands in the air, saying they wanted to surrender.

"They had heard firing and thought it was the start of the war.

"The Paras are a tough, battle-hardened lot but were moved by the plight of the Iraqis. There was nothing they could do other than send them back.

"They were a motley bunch and you could barely describe them as soldiers - they were poorly equipped and didn't even have proper boots. Their physical condition was dreadful and they had obviously not had a square meal for ages. No one has ever known a group of so-called soldiers surrender before a shot has been fired in anger."

Last night the Ministry of Defence officially denied the incident had taken place, but the story was corroborated by an intelligence source.

Meanwhile Saddam Hussein has ordered thousands of troops back to Baghdad as he turns the city into a fortress.

It is believed that two rings of steel are being established around Baghdad. The outer one consists of regular Iraqi army soldiers and the inner one is made up of Republican Guard fighters - thought to be the only troops that will put up fierce resistance.<span id='postcolor'>So the paras were testing their weapons, while the Iraqi were testing their white flags. biggrin.gif<span id='postcolor'>

Smells like the excrement of a male cow to me smile.gif

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Last night the Ministry of Defence officially denied the incident had taken place, but the story was corroborated by an intelligence source.<span id='postcolor'>

Mmmhmmm..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ Mar. 10 2003,20:09)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Smells like the excrement of a male cow to me smile.gif

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Last night the Ministry of Defence officially denied the incident had taken place, but the story was corroborated by an intelligence source.<span id='postcolor'>

Mmmhmmm..<span id='postcolor'>

That's how urban legends (or rather desert fairy tales) are created... crazy.gif

Of course, nobody ever trusts a govenmental official denying something! biggrin.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

exactly , Tony Blair could very likely get the war approved through parliament with conservative help even without any more UN involvment but at what cost? There is talk(not very serious yet) of Tony Blair being forced to resign.... that would probably happen after a war (especially a bloody one)

Die Alive- tounge.gif That made me laugh ,

but its obviously quite a sad testament to whats going on in Iraq... sad.gif

In other news the British Paratroopers are reported be planning for a risky attack on Baghdad after being inserted from the air...

Paras dropped on Baghdad- Telegraph(UK)

Makes you wonder why this would get into the papers before it happens... misinformation?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hah-i just noticed that that surrender report is in 'the Sunday Mirror', not a paper greatly noted for its high journalistic standards..

So i now feel inclined to agree that there is a certain smell there smile.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You're right, the story would of been lot more authentic if it included that the 12 Iraqi were tortured, half of them died at the hands of the torturer, and the survivors sent back across the boarder. smile.gif

Then I’m sure someone else would of posted that instead of me. smile.gif

-=Die Alive=-

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (IsthatyouJohnWayne @ Mar. 11 2003,04:22)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">In other news the British Paratroopers are reported be planning for a risky attack on Baghdad after being inserted from the air...

Paras dropped on Baghdad- Telegraph(UK)

Makes you wonder why this would get into the papers before it happens... misinformation?<span id='postcolor'>

Sounds a bit like Operation Market Garden to me, although I have my doubts if those plans are real. They are going to drop in paratroopers into Baghdad, then what? Hold the airport until Allied Armour can break through to them? Very Operation Market Garden. And Operation Market Garden turned quite nasty when the armoured forces didn't reach the paratroopers in time...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

true but they didnt have totally overwhelming air superiority, helicopter fleets, and Transport plane portable main battle tanks or other armour in Market Garden...

Still i agree it seems suspicious.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest

I have my doubts about that plan too. The only hint of it being credible is that the British would be doing it. If it had been Russians, I would have probably believed it.

It's anyway incredibly risky. They must get quick armored support or they are screwed. Air support is out of the question since it would require helis and I am sure that the Iraqi have plenty of protable SAMs to make life unpleasent for rotary winged aircraft.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe its a diversion? making the iraqis think they will paradrop will make the iraqis concentrate their SAM while the birtish attacks in a different way ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (STS_SolidSnake @ Mar. 11 2003,06:39)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Maybe its a diversion? making the iraqis think they will paradrop will make the iraqis concentrate their SAM while the birtish attacks in a different way ?<span id='postcolor'>

Unless the Iraqi Generals are complete ninwits, I doubt they will take this plan too seriously, unless the Ghost of Field Marshal Monty is in command of the whole operation.

Back in 1944 the allies had overwhelming airiel supperiority too, but because all the radios the paratroopers had were defective, there was no way that the paratroopers could call in air-support. The British all-so planed to sustaine their troops via para drops of supplies, unfortunetely for the British, all the supplies fell into German lines. While those two problems probably wouldnt happen these days, there are still other problems. According to the plan, Apache helicopters are going to give support for the troops, but there happens to be something, like Denoir said, called a Shoulder Launched SAM.

As for the air dropped tanks, yeah, they do exist, but what will they be getting? A couple of Scorpion tanks? Good for scouting, not so good for holding up against T-72's.

And once they capture the airport they have to wait about two days at the least before the main armoured thrust reaches them. As I see it, too much can go wrong. The plan would have to go near perfect for it to suceed.

I think its a scam, or these are the very scaled down version of the true plans.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It would be esentially the same thing we did in GW1. We used the media to make it look like we were preparing a maritime invasion when we were hooking around to the west with tanks.

For those of you who don't watch the history channel. wink.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just have to post this. Its a small analogy, created by some EQ geek...player I mean. Still, quite amusing wink.gif

Everquest meets Iraq

--

US: Ok, putting together a group for an Iraq raid...who's in?

UK: Of course I'm in.

Turkey: Only if someone makes me new armor. Last Iraq raid I lost money on.

US: *sigh* Ok, I can't make your cultural armor, but I'll help pay for it. How much you need?

Turkey: 100k plat.

US: ***?! Are you smithing the armor out of platinum, ya tard? No frikking way. 30k plat, and that's all I'm offering.

Turkey: Sweet. Ok, I'm in.

Spain: I frikking hate Iraq. They were spawn campin us for frikking EVER, man -- long time ago, but we're still pissed off about it. Meet you at Turkish zone line.

US: Cool, thx.

Italy: Me 2.

Chile: I'm in.

US: Ok, so far, got US, UK, Turks, Spain, Italy, Chile.

Bulgaria: Umm, got room for some lowbies? Thought maybe we could leech some raid xp ...

US: Yeah, sure. Why not. Just don't attack anything. Make sure to set up a /assist US hotkey, ok?

France: Hey all, what's up?

US: Putting together a raid, hitting Iraq.

France: No frikking way, dood. Look, I'm part of Alliance leadership, and I say no way do we go in there. I'm using Alliance veto.

US: ***? Alliance Veto?

France: Yeah, it's in the guild charter. Me, Germany, US, Russia, and China can all cancel any guild raid event.

Bulgaria: Hey, me and the other Eastern Europeans

wanna go ...

France: ****, n00b. Your guild got no say in this.

Bulgaria: ,,!,,

Germany: I don't really want to go either.

US: ...

France: Yeah, we veto. No guildies go to Iraq.

US: What about you, Russia.

Russia: Well, if everyone else goes, it's ok, but if France and Germany say no, then that's cool.

US: Jeebus. Dood, show some balls. You used to love going on raids.

Russia: Yeah, but that Afghanistan raid a while back was a disaster. Total group wipe-out.

US: Yeah, but you were in different alliance, man. This is different. Besides, we pwn3d last time we went on Iraq raid.

France: Doesn't matter. I say no.

Spain: .tell US doesn't matter if France doesn't go anyway, he just feigns death anytime he sees combat. He's a bu77munch. Lives next door to me.

Spain: Oops. MT.

France: Oh yeah? Well you skipped that WWII raid completely.

Spain: Only cuz I'd just come back from dueling, was too tired to raid. Besides, you died in first wave, spent the rest of the raid licking dirt and whining.

France: ..!..

US: Guys, c'mon. I'm trying to put this thing together, here... look, I don't care what France says. I'm going, and anyone who wants to come with me can. China, you in?

China: *shrug* Don't feel like it.

US: Ok...

North Korea has challenged you to a duel! Type /duel accept to accept or /duel decline to decline the challenge.

US: /duel decline

North Korea tells you: "Dood u r teh suq. I will r0xxorz u"

You tell North Korea: No thanks, guy. Trying to get a raid going.

North Korea tells you: "Ur just scaerd of teh pwnage"

You tell North Korea: Riiiigh. ****, okay? I'm busy.

North Korea taunts you.

/ignore North Korea.

US: How come you're not coming, Germany?

Germany: I'm just not into the violence anymore.

You tell Germany: Bullsh1t, you're just waiting for us to go into Iraq so you can gank France again.

Germany tells you: Ooops. *blush* busted!!

You tell Germany: Dude, why bother? He's green to you.

Germany tells you: It's just satisfying, I guess. It shuts him up for a while, anyway.

France: I'm telling you, if anyone goes, then it'll break the Alliance.

Spain tells you: Whoop-de-sh1t, this Alliance sucks. Let's go anyways.

US: France, *** is ur problem?

France: I want to send scouts in first. Let them see if any named are up.

US: Ok, how long it gonna take them?

France: Couple weeks, maybe. Months, possibly.

US: MONTHS? ***confused.gif! Dude, I don't want to wait that long. I'll give your scouts a week, at most. We'll reschedule then.

France: I may veto anyway.

US: Yeah, whatever.

/tell Spain Yeah, may have to. He's a dipsh1t.

Bulgaria tells you: If you go, let me know. Me and my lowbie buddies are in.

You tell Bulgaria: Cool, thx. Are you someone's alt?

Bulgaria tells you: Some of us were Russia's buff toons, but we're soloing now.

US: Ok, meet again next week. We'll take things from there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's not as if TBA's motivation has not been clearly stated several years ago already:

http://www.newamericancentury.org/RebuildingAmericasDefenses.pdf

This paper was finished in September 2000 and created as requested by Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz and Libby.

Founders of the organization (PNAC) were the abovementioned plus:

Peter W. Rodman, responsible for international security

Richard Armitage, vice secretary of state

Richard Perle

William Kristol, AKA "Bushs brain"

Zalmay Khalizad, now responsible for relationship management with the Iraqi opposition

Since I have neither the time nor the necessary English skills to participate in the discussion properly I thought I might provide this for your information only, without expressing my opinion.

Edit: Spelling confused.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Shrike @ Mar. 11 2003,13:39)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">http://www.newamericancentury.org/RebuildingAmericasDefenses.pdf<span id='postcolor'>

Pax Americana, eh?

It remains to be seen what will happen after Iraq, Iran and North Korea have been wiped out. Who will be the new threat?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"It remains to be seen what will happen after Iraq, Iran and North Korea have been wiped out. Who will be the new threat?"

Europe.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The document sees China as the upcomming threat, mentioned in several chapters.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Longinius @ Mar. 11 2003,15:14)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">"It remains to be seen what will happen after Iraq, Iran and North Korea have been wiped out. Who will be the new threat?"<span id='postcolor'>

The Onion said a few weeks ago that it was North Dakota. tounge.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Site by a US journalist with lots of information about an Iraq war, consequences, reasons etc

www.back-to-iraq.com

check the archives for a vast amount of information ,opinion and links on this subject. (especially related to the fate of de facto Kurdistan in a post saddam iraq)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Warin @ Mar. 11 2003,15:44)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Good lord...

Is everyone in the US government in possesion of a ten year old mentality??

This is so juvenile that I almost have a hard time believing it's true!!<span id='postcolor'>

How about French Kissing or "French ticklers" ? tounge.gif

This is just as sad. Antiwar protesters trash 9/11 memorial

-=Die Alive=-

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
Sign in to follow this  

×