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brgnorway

The Iraq Thread

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I'm going to publish a book: The Complete Idiots Guide to Debating War Ethics (guess who I'll be mentioning in the thank you's)

Chapter 1 - When somebody accuses you or your country of something, turn it around and accuse them and their country (or the country they are defending) of doing it

Chapter 2 - Everyone who doesn't agree with you is a victim of propaganda, and probably a democracy hating communist too!

Chapter 3 - Any press source that contradicts what you say is propganda (see Chapter 2)

Chapter 4 - When someone makes a point that totally undermines your argument, pretend you don't understand what they are saying and regurgitate your previous point again

Chapter 5- Pick up on any and all grammatical errors your opponent makes to belittle their actual content

Chapter 6 - Hypocracy is your friend. There is nothing wrong with accusing a nation of something bad even if it's something your nation does regularly all the time

Chapter 7 - Above all, you must believe that you and your chosen cause are the only examples of what is right in the universe. All other opinion and views are lies, LIES, LIES!

Now, I am done. There is no point debating with a fanatic, as I have said. I leave you all to it. Personally I suspect fspilot is doing this as much to boost his post count as for what he actually believes in. wink.gif

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I would buy the book but I get the feeling I'm already much too familiar and fairly sick of the subject matter wink.gif

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</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Cloney @ Feb. 03 2003,14:51)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">That is a total lump of shit. Honestly that is just trying to incite a flame war. Comparing Bush to Hitler is blowing things completely out of proportion, you do not see him standing on his little podeum ranting about how bad Muslims and Arabs are. He has told us that SADDAM is evil, not the Iraqi people.

Also, Who the hell are you to speak for us, your not even an American. After S11 our national pride was higher than ever. Yes we'd know about a preemptive strike, and no our entire country is not for it. You should really refrain from posting inflammatory bullshit, its really weak and even more pathetic than it looks.

mad.gif<span id='postcolor'>

dont u understand a war against iraq is a war against the iraq people, while saddiam sits in a bunker some where the amerian forces will blow the iraqis to bits, you think the amerians will walk in and put a cap in saddiams head and they all lived happyly ever after no the iraqis will defend there country and they will be killed. This war is in no way in their best interests, wars bring only death and destruction, it will further generate anti US hate, why do they hate the US soo much? well bush shows u time and time again.

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</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Tovarish @ Feb. 03 2003,08:24)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><span id='postcolor'>

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">but you tried to provide facts on the Cuban incident<span id='postcolor'>

Which I then admitted I knew nothing about.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Sure you're "providing facts" here, shame there isn't an Iraqi amonst the forum community to discuss those with you....every "fact" you provide is the "fact" according to your government and you ignore everything else.<span id='postcolor'>

Of course this is ignoring all the UN "facts" and the Iraqi defector "facts", as well as the common sense that goes along with them

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Put yourself in my shoes at that moment, even though you admitted you didn't know what you were talking about and hence shouldn't have been commenting, you never answered my reply to your "we have a wonderful economy and democracy" justification some 50+ pages back. In Fact, you didn't even admit that you didn't know what you were saying till a dozen or so pages ago.<span id='postcolor'>

I'm not answering this because 1) there's no point. It has nothing to do with Iraq. And 2) the argument's been over for a very long time, you're just rehashing old things.

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i guess there is no way u are going to listen to commen sense and reason, the brainwashing of propaganda has done its job FS pilot serves as an example of what it is capable of.

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</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (FSPilot @ Feb. 03 2003,04:11)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Tovarish @ Feb. 03 2003,08:24)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><span id='postcolor'>

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">but you tried to provide facts on the Cuban incident<span id='postcolor'>

Which I then admitted I knew nothing about.<span id='postcolor'>

Only because there was luckily a Cuban on the forums to show that your facts were BS.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">

Of course this is ignoring all the UN "facts" and the Iraqi defector "facts", as well as the common sense that goes along with them

<span id='postcolor'>

Oh but I take those into account more than you do anything that does not agree with your point of view.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Put yourself in my shoes at that moment, even though you admitted you didn't know what you were talking about and hence shouldn't have been commenting, you never answered my reply to your "we have a wonderful economy and democracy" justification some 50+ pages back. In Fact, you didn't even admit that you didn't know what you were saying till a dozen or so pages ago.<span id='postcolor'>

I'm not answering this because 1) there's no point. It has nothing to do with Iraq. And 2) the argument's been over for a very long time, you're just rehashing old things.<span id='postcolor'>

The point is you don't know how to say you're wrong and apologize for saying something utterly idiotic and offensive. For all your democracy and freedom loving BS, with that justification you dishonoured a lot of Cubans who died trying to free the country from a murderous US puppet dictator.

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I don't understand you Tovarish, The Cuban part of my family left when Castro took power because they were conservatives and more in line with the right wing than with the communists. If you are such a proponent of Cuban Communism why don't you live their an experience it for yourself? Many members of my family suffered under it and you like to talk about it like it isn't all that bad.

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Well, I know I said I was out of this, but one last point:

FS, do you understand that your opinions aren't facts?

You seem to jumble your opinions, "common sense", facts, rumours and your beloved "propaganda" into to one huge blender and what comes out the other end is (according to you) God's gospel fact.

It's like Pater Pan, it doesn't matter how much you believe, without the pixie dust (documented facts) you won't fly!  tounge.gif

(And yes, I will understand that you will have difficulty with that last part, you seem unable or unwilling to differentiate between a statement of fact and an allegory or example).

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</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Cloney @ Feb. 03 2003,04:38)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I don't understand you Tovarish, The Cuban part of my family left when Castro took power because they were conservatives and more in line with the right wing than with the communists. If you are such a proponent of Cuban Communism why don't you live their an experience it for yourself? Many members of my family suffered under it and you like to talk about it like it isn't all that bad.<span id='postcolor'>

If you had read the thread from the beginning you may notice that I am not a big fan of Castro nor am I a Communist. If I was living under him I would likely be jailed now for some of the same things I have said in this forum, because I have a tendency to speak my mind. I have a lot of family there too, and yes, they are suffering However, that does not change the fact that the average Cuban was worse off under Batista, and he was kept in power by the US. I have said all this before in this very same thread. Yet because I oppose him you feel you can call me a Communist. Well then, since you oppose Communists may I return the favour and call you a Nazi?

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</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Tovarish @ Feb. 02 2003,22:44)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">If I was living under him I would likely be jailed now for some of the same things I have said in this forum, because I have a tendency to speak my mind.<span id='postcolor'>

Yes, I can confirm this. biggrin.gif

Oh yes, being called a communist is sooo bad... maybe I'd rather be a communist than christian. tounge.gif And I'm neither.

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</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (FSPilot @ Feb. 03 2003,03:18)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><span id='postcolor'>

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Probably because he was afraid of US retalliation.  He wasn't in the Iran-Iraq war, or when he used them against the Kurds.  <span id='postcolor'>

That initially sounds reasonable had it not been for a few factors.

Yes, he probably was afraid of US/Nato retalliation and as you wrote he didn't fear that when he used such weapons against the Iranians or the Kurds. Why? Because US supported him as an ally when fighting the iranians. The Kurds on the other hand was something they just turned their blind eye on due to the same reason. To me this is hypocracy because you not only funded and equiped him with weapons, but yuo did so with full knowledge that someone would get hurt by WMD's. So the moral is that it's alright if people are exposed to such weapons as long as it's not hurting your own population. So, what does this boil down to then? How about this: In the old days US meant a strong Saddam was a good thing. Not only did he keep the Khomeini behind the Iranian border but Saddam represented a secular rule of Iraq. That suited you fine because the worst thing for american business would be a religious revolution in oilrich Iraq - or an Iraq conquered by Khomeini.

Next - when Saddam failed big time by invading Kuwait - USA all of a sudden saw it's oil supply threatened by their former ally. From that time on, the so called WMD's were an issue, but not an issue enough for american military intervention - despite the fact that Saddam kicked out the weapon inspectors. This period is also marked by Saddam's unwillingnes to use these weapons - due to the possible threat of big time retaliation and US intervention on Iraqi soil.

Then there is the new US-administration - the neo conservatives: Cheyney, Rumsfeldt, Wolfowitz and Bush jr. all eager to get their hands on Iraqi oil and at the same time break OPEC's monopoly on deciding prices of crude, and possibly "turn" the middle eastern sentiment in US favour by "freeing" more of the ME nations. However, to invade Iraq they needed a good reason. Clearly, the claims of Iraq sharing the bed with Al Queda didn't work. No one would believe it.

Now then, do you wonder why WMD is all of a sudden hot topic again?

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">That makes sense, but why was he developing WMDs before he was threatened with an invasion?<span id='postcolor'>

Probably the same reason all poor countries have when they develop biological or chemical weapons. I guess that's why such weapons are called "poor mans A-bomb". They lack the resources to develop nuclear weapons.

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</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Tovarish @ Feb. 03 2003,04:44)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Cloney @ Feb. 03 2003,04:38)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I don't understand you Tovarish, The Cuban part of my family left when Castro took power because they were conservatives and more in line with the right wing than with the communists. If you are such a proponent of Cuban Communism why don't you live their an experience it for yourself? Many members of my family suffered under it and you like to talk about it like it isn't all that bad.<span id='postcolor'>

If you had read the thread from the beginning you may notice that I am not a big fan of Castro nor am I a Communist. If I was living under him I would likely be jailed now for some of the same things I have said in this forum, because I have a tendency to speak my mind. I have a lot of family there too, and yes, they are suffering However, that does not change the fact that the average Cuban was worse off under Batista, and he was kept in power by the US. I have said all this before in this very same thread. Yet because I oppose him you feel you can call me a Communist. Well then, since you oppose Communists may I return the favour and call you a Nazi?<span id='postcolor'>

I'm sorry for totally misunderstanding you.

No Hard Feelings here.

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</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Cloney @ Feb. 03 2003,04:56)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I'm sorry for totally misunderstanding you.

No Hard Feelings here.<span id='postcolor'>

Finally a part of the discussion i can reply to amicably smile.gif. No hard feelings.

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While we're apologising, I'm sorry for likening Bush to Hitler. It wasn't meant as a serious comparison, just an exaggerated example to illustrate a point to fspilot.

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Topic aside - but I like people whom are able to apologize!

smile.gif

edit: can we all hug now? biggrin.gif

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</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (brgnorway @ Feb. 02 2003,23:07)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Topic aside - but I like people whom are able to apologize!

smile.gif<span id='postcolor'>

I'm sorry. smile.gif

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</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (bn880 @ Feb. 03 2003,05:09)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">wow.gif7--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (brgnorway @ Feb. 02 2003,23wow.gif7)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Topic aside - but I like people whom are able to apologize!

smile.gif<span id='postcolor'>

I'm sorry.  smile.gif<span id='postcolor'>

Don't push it! tounge.gifbiggrin.gif

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</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">i guess there is no way u are going to listen to commen sense and reason, the brainwashing of propaganda has done its job FS pilot serves as an example of what it is capable of.<span id='postcolor'>

i guess there is no way u are going to listen to commen sense and reason, the brainwashing of propaganda has done its job helltoupee serves as an example of what it is capable of.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Only because there was luckily a Cuban on the forums to show that your facts were BS.<span id='postcolor'>

You want a cookie?

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Oh but I take those into account more than you do anything that does not agree with your point of view.<span id='postcolor'>

Is that why you're ignoring all the facts that I've presented?

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The point is you don't know how to say you're wrong and apologize for saying something utterly idiotic and offensive.<span id='postcolor'>

Thats funny, considering I already said I was wrong.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">FS, do you understand that your opinions aren't facts?<span id='postcolor'>

Yes, but I try to base my opinions on facts. Like the information from the UN and Iraqi defectors.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">You seem to jumble your opinions, "common sense", facts, rumours and your beloved "propaganda" into to one huge blender and what comes out the other end is (according to you) God's gospel fact.<span id='postcolor'>

No, I'm taking proven facts, accepted history, and coming up with an opinion.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">To me this is hypocracy because you not only funded and equiped him with weapons, but yuo did so with full knowledge that someone would get hurt by WMD's.<span id='postcolor'>

Yes we, along with several other nations, gave him what he needed to make vaccinations for some diseases. And we weren't the only country doing this either.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Next - when Saddam failed big time by invading Kuwait - USA all of a sudden saw it's oil supply threatened by their former ally. From that time on, the so called WMD's were an issue, but not an issue enough for american military intervention - despite the fact that Saddam kicked out the weapon inspectors. This period is also marked by Saddam's unwillingnes to use these weapons - due to the possible threat of big time retaliation and US intervention on Iraqi soil<span id='postcolor'>

The US was not protecting its oil supply, it was protecting the worlds oil supply. You really think the US is the only country in the world to use oil?

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Then there is the new US-administration - the neo conservatives: Cheyney, Rumsfeldt, Wolfowitz and Bush jr. all eager to get their hands on Iraqi oil and at the same time break OPEC's monopoly on deciding prices of crude, and possibly "turn" the middle eastern sentiment in US favour by "freeing" more of the ME nations. However, to invade Iraq they needed a good reason. Clearly, the claims of Iraq sharing the bed with Al Queda didn't work. No one would believe it.

Now then, do you wonder why WMD is all of a sudden hot topic again?<span id='postcolor'>

This is all balancing on one point that's pretty easilly knocked down: the US is not trying to control Iraq's oil. Why? Because we benefit more by getting it from them for food and medicine than letting them sell it. Not only that, but if the US was tryign to turn middle eastern sentiment in our favor, why would we be going against all this worldwide criticism to get rid of this guy's weapons? It doesn't make sense.

Anyway, I too am sorry if I've pissed anybody off in this thread. I'm not trying too honestly.

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lol man this guy is a crack up.

In fact i will take that cookie, and it is benefical to the US to have iraqs oil because then they wont have to trade iraq anything to get it they can pump it them selfs and sell it, also currently a great deal of iraqs oil fields rights belong to other countries so at teh moment the US dose not have access to much of iraqs oil, the sactions mean iraq can import the tools to pump more oil fields so at the moment much of it is just sitting there waiting for sum greedy person to take it.

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</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (FSPilot @ Feb. 03 2003,05:35)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><span id='postcolor'>

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">This is all balancing on one point that's pretty easilly knocked down: the US is not trying to control Iraq's oil.  Why?  Because we benefit more by getting it from them for food and medicine than letting them sell it.<span id='postcolor'>

The oil Iraq exports for the oil for food/medicine is not substantial. Remember, Saddam stopped his exports last summer to "punish" US. Didn't work at all because the amount was too small - and OPEC increased their production in order to stabilize the price.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">

Not only that, but if the US was tryign to turn middle eastern sentiment in our favor, why would we be going against all this worldwide criticism to get rid of this guy's weapons?  It doesn't make sense.

<span id='postcolor'>

Well, US is pressing on for a process of democratization as well as a wulfuwitz think-tank stated that US should consider military interventions in other middle eastern countries. In fact, he did even say this in public a some months ago (last year). But I agree with you - it doesn't make sense - ask your president about it - or better - his colleague.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The US was not protecting its oil supply, it was protecting the worlds oil supply.  You really think the US is the only country in the world to use oil?

<span id='postcolor'>

I don't think US gives a damn about who's oil it is as long as it's not their own. That being said, they probably would care due to the international economy going down the drains - and US domestic economy because of that.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Yes we, along with several other nations, gave him what he needed to make vaccinations for some diseases.  <span id='postcolor'>

As if you didn't know what Saddam was being up to? Come on - since when was the CIA that naive?

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">And we weren't the only country doing this either.

<span id='postcolor'>

Well, you can count my country out of that at least!

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</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (brgnorway @ Feb. 03 2003,11:00)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><span id='postcolor'>

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">In fact i will take that cookie, and it is benefical to the US to have iraqs oil because then they wont have to trade iraq anything to get it they can pump it them selfs and sell it,<span id='postcolor'>

Oh please, you really think the rest of the world would stand for that?

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">also currently a great deal of iraqs oil fields rights belong to other countries so at teh moment the US dose not have access to much of iraqs oil, the sactions mean iraq can import the tools to pump more oil fields so at the moment much of it is just sitting there waiting for sum greedy person to take it.<span id='postcolor'>

So if we really did want Iraq's oil, we'd just lift the sanctions.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The oil Iraq exports for the oil for food/medicine is not substantial. Remember, Saddam stopped his exports last summer to "punish" US. Didn't work at all because the amount was too small - and OPEC increased their production in order to stabilize the price.<span id='postcolor'>

Well, as bgrnorway has just revealed to me, the only reason they're not exporting oil is because they cant import the equipment. So if we wanted their oil, we'd simply lift the sanctions.

I think I've said this before too.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Well, US is pressing on for a process of democratization as well as a wulfuwitz think-tank stated that US should consider military interventions in other middle eastern countries. In fact, he did even say this in public a some months ago (last year). But I agree with you - it doesn't make sense - ask your president about it - or better - his colleague.<span id='postcolor'>

No, I'll ask you since you're the one presenting the argument.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I don't think US gives a damn about who's oil it is as long as it isn't their own. That being said, they probably would care due to the international economy going down the drains - and US domestic economy because of that.<span id='postcolor'>

You're not listening to what I'm saying. We don't have any plans to go in, kill Saddam, and take all their oil for only the US. The world simply would not stand for that. And again, if we wanted their oil we'd simply lift the sanctions.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">As if you didn't know what Saddam was being up to? Come on - since when was the CIA that naive?<span id='postcolor'>

Since he hadn't done anything before we gave him the vaccinations?

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Well, you can count my country out of that at least<span id='postcolor'>

Ok, what's your point? The list is somewhere around here.

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</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (FSPilot @ Feb. 03 2003,05:35)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">FS, do you understand that your opinions aren't facts?<span id='postcolor'>

Yes, but I try to base my opinions on facts.  Like the information from the UN and Iraqi defectors.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">You seem to jumble your opinions, "common sense", facts, rumours and your beloved "propaganda" into to one huge blender and what comes out the other end is (according to you) God's gospel fact.<span id='postcolor'>

No, I'm taking proven facts, accepted history, and coming up with an opinion.<span id='postcolor'>

Yes, the information of defectors trying to ingratiate themselves to their new leaders is beyond suspicion - not! They would say whatever the hell they were told to say to keep their new position.

----

If I had the time and inclination I could fill up pages with you presenting your personal opinions as if they are fact.

And the crack about the cookie proves you would rather be flippant when proved wrong than be a man and admit your mistake.

----

Good lord, I've got to stop reading this thread, I just can't help replying! I need professional help! tounge.gif

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</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (OxPecker @ Feb. 03 2003,11:18)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><span id='postcolor'>

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Yes, the information of defectors trying to ingratiate themselves to their new leaders is beyond suspicion - not! They would say whatever the hell they were told to say to keep their new position.<span id='postcolor'>

And what position would that be?

At least somebody's finally confronting the evidence.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">If I had the time and inclination I could fill up pages with you presenting your personal opinions as if they are fact.<span id='postcolor'>

Because I base my opinions on fact?

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">And the crack about the cookie proves you would rather be flippant when proved wrong than be a man and admit your mistake.<span id='postcolor'>

Even though I've already admitted my mistake?

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I want to know why, if Iraq has supposedly nothing to hide, why are there sanctions still imposed? If they had nothing to hide, this issue would have been resolved years ago. However, this process is still going on.

There should be no reason for the numerous articles, resolutions released by the UN. http://globalsecurity.org/wmd/library/news/iraq/un/index.html#sc

The burden of evidence is not on the United States or any other country, but Iraq alone. If they destroyed these WMDs, which were there prior to '98, there should be evidence of there destruction (physical remains and documentation). It isn't that difficult to point to an area and say we destroyed this amount of weapons, etc. There have been 4 plus years for them to carry out such action, if they did, well good for them. Show the inspectors the evidence without hesitation, and things can get back to normal for Iraq. However, given Saddam's previous track record, any rational individual will not trust Hussein and his regime without this appropriate evidence. The world has taken his word on issues before and look where we are today.

How do people explain why the scientists choose to have a witness present? Again, if there is nothing to hide on Iraq's part, these scientists and other officials would have no problem with being interviewed secretly. Whatever it may be, there is clearly something being hidden here.

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The Iraqi resistance in ENgland have agreed to work together and they will form the new government just like the tribes in afgahinstan did. No the US wont be running anything. End of discussion

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