The Iraq Thread

[Akira 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Heavy Metal @ April 05 2003,05:19)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><span id='postcolor'>

Please refer to my post exactly one page back.

[Heavy Metal 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Akira @ April 05 2003,05:36)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Heavy Metal @ April 05 2003,05:19)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><span id='postcolor'>

Please refer to my post exactly one page back.<span id='postcolor'>

Noted.

[-iCeMaN- 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Ex-RoNiN @ April 05 2003,21:40)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Throw stones You are a really smart one, aren't ya Plus, the only F-117 shot down so far was over Serbia/Kosovo (that region anyhow).

On the other hand, the Iraqis managed to shoot down something like 20 odd planes in the last war, was that done with stones as well

Some people <span id='postcolor'>

It was a JOKE!  They didn't really shoot down an F117 with rocks!! YOU are a really smart one, aren't ya  

Some people ...don't know the difference between a joke and a serious comment!!

-iCe-

Btw, no deliberate critisism or insults were meant, only opinion!

[SpeedyDonkey 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Your friends can not tell Iraqi families what price they have to pay. And remember, your friends are not in Iraq, they like the "No Information Entered" country where you live.

<span id='postcolor'>Sure but they got all thier relatives there. So its not like they dont care.

[DarkLight 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (SpeedyDonkey @ April 03 2003,23:15)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Just a question for all you dove´s of peace out there. I really dont understand why you are so very much agains this war. I mean i have some friends from iraq and they are pleased about the war becouse of the liberation of Iraq. Sure they are afraid of civilian casualties but they belive Iraq has to "pay the price" and yes, even with blood to once and for all get rid of Saddam.

And to think that the coalitions only intention is to get oil sounds kind of cynical to me. Sure they might have financial interest. But France Russian and german are for the very same reason opposing the war.<span id='postcolor'>

It's not because some ppl that you know think "it's a price that we need to pay" that every single Iraqi civilian thinks that, have you watched the news recently? Do you have any idea what's going on there? Every night i see Iraqi people singing songs on the streets for Saddam and calling Bush a liar, when a British tank drives by everyone shuts up, a while later everyone starts again.

A huuuge amount of ppl don't get "rescued" at all, sure, for now Saddam is gone, but most ppl are living in worse conditions than before the invasion!

No water, no food, no electricity, and so on. What do all the kids need to drink? Where will the babies get their milk? Invading is easy but if your president is gonna keep acting like this then he'll probable lose pretty much all support in Iraq.

"Rescued" villages aren't rescued at all, the situation isn't good at all, innocent ppl die every day.

Sure, it's easy to support it when you aren't being bombed every fucking day, it's easy when you don't have to fear to get hit by one of those laser guided super rockets that NEVER miss their target!

War wasn't the last solution but still your president decided to choose for it...

[Longinius 1]

"Just a question for all you dove´s of peace out there. I really dont understand why you are so very much agains this war."

Because

1. There was no reason to go to war, the inspectors were getting there, it was working.

2. This was is not sanctioned by the UN, thus making it illegal. So, in fact, the US are the bad guys according to international standards.

3. The war is not carried out keeping the civilians best interests in mind. Yes, the armed forces are doing efforts to avoid civilian casualties. But hospitals still have no electricity or water (and that is in liberated areas), people have little or no food, civilians attempting to evacute areas get caught in the crossfire of jumpy troops. It simply isnt working that well. These things should have been considered before hand, and they would have if the UN sanctioned it. Because then we'd see many countries going in with field hospital, engineer troops, supplies, police and rescue services. Like in lots of other conflicts where the UN was involved.

[SpeedyDonkey 0]

Its easy for you guys to say "UN does not like this, yabba yabba yabba" while if you know people that has been tortured by the regime you might have another perspective of this war. Im only trying to show my prespective of it. And I belive that Saddam wont disarm himself.

Sure people may not be dancing and throwing flowers when the troops arrives. For most people its just because a huge fear of Saddam.

And obviously the Iraqi civilians live under worse conditions now then before the war Because it is a war... Once the regime is gone and the war over the conditions will slowly be better and better. sooner or later better then under Saddams regime

[Longinius 1]

"Its easy for you guys to say "UN does not like this, yabba yabba yabba" while if you know people that has been tortured by the regime you might have another perspective of this war. Im only trying to show my prespective of it. And I belive that Saddam wont disarm himself."

FFS, people are being tortured all over the world. The US have supported and probably still support regimes where torture is SOP. This is not about the people of Iraq. If it was, they would have been freed in 91.

"And obviously the Iraqi civilians live under worse conditions now then before the war Because it is a war... Once the regime is gone and the war over the conditions will slowly be better and better. sooner or later better then under Saddams regime."

But that wasnt my point though. My point is that if the conflict was sanctioned by the UN the civilians would be in a much better state.

[SpeedyDonkey 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">But that wasnt my point though. My point is that if the conflict was sanctioned by the UN the civilians would be in a much better<span id='postcolor'>I know but that was a answer to some other fellow post.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">This is not about the people of Iraq<span id='postcolor'>I see this war as a huge opportunity for the iraqis to get rid of Saddam. No matter what the coalition intends to do.

[Badgerboy 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (|iCeMaN| @ April 05 2003,07:49)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Ex-RoNiN @ April 05 2003,21:40)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Throw stones You are a really smart one, aren't ya Plus, the only F-117 shot down so far was over Serbia/Kosovo (that region anyhow).

On the other hand, the Iraqis managed to shoot down something like 20 odd planes in the last war, was that done with stones as well

Some people <span id='postcolor'>

It was a JOKE!  They didn't really shoot down an F117 with rocks!! YOU are a really smart one, aren't ya  

Some people ...don't know the difference between a joke and a serious comment!!

-iCe-

Btw, no deliberate critisism or insults were meant, only opinion!<span id='postcolor'>

Well, as jokes go it was pretty poor wasn't it?

I can easily see the confusion.

[DarkLight 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (SpeedyDonkey @ April 04 2003,13:12)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Its easy for you guys to say "UN does not like this, yabba yabba yabba" while if you know people that has been tortured by the regime you might have another perspective of this war. Im only trying to show my prespective of it. And I belive that Saddam wont disarm himself.

Sure people may not be dancing and throwing flowers when the troops arrives. For most people its just because a huge fear of Saddam.

And obviously the Iraqi civilians live under worse conditions now then before the war Because it is a war... Once the regime is gone and the war over the conditions will slowly be better and better. sooner or later better then under Saddams regime<span id='postcolor'>

There are a lot of African (and other) countries who have a dictator, who kills as much as Saddam.  All these dictators together probable cause a lot more deaths than Saddam will ever.

Now the funny part comes, these countries and dictators get full support of our Western community, and that doesn't only include the US.  Instead of attacking Iraq and claiming that you are doing it to get rid of "the worst dictator ever", you should stop supporting dictators all over the world.  Sure, it isn't as spectacular as a war, it can't hide all the problems in the US as well...

But it would be a lot more logical, and imagine this, perhaps the US bashing will decrease a lot...

[Welcome_to_my_Nightmare 0]

We are kickin' some major butt in Baghdad! Give em' the cold steel! Forward.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I forgot to add his IP to the ban list, but I have fixed that now <span id='postcolor'>

ok Lieutenant, but I have multiple IPs, e-mail addresses and computers. I am still here and will be going underground as a not-so-obvious poster. I am not going anywhere.

[Guest]

Sounds good. I love a challange

[PFC Mongoose 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ April 04 2003,20:10)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The inspectors were never ejected from Iraq, they left on their own after they concluded that Iraq was making it impossible to complete their work.<span id='postcolor'>

Yes, you're absolutely right; my mistake.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The point is that this round thanks to the imminent threat of war, the inspections were working. Not perfectly, but enough to make the inspectors confident that they could complete their task. They were destroying weapons and documenting the weapon programs when Bush decided to pull the plug. The inspections were working so there was no reason whatsoever to go to war at this time. None of us can predict the future but the inpections had a good chance of succeeding. If Iraq had begun messing with the inspectors again, the choice of going to war always remained. And then you would also have the support of the world. There was a chance that war could have been avoided and all those people now being killed in Iraq could have been alive. Those lives are on Bush's conscience.

Second, the fact is that it never had anything to do with weapons of mass destruction. If you remember how this started: terrorism. When no ties could be found accusations of a nuclear weapons program was introduced. When there was no evidence at all to support that accusation, chemical and biological weapons became an issue.

<span id='postcolor'>

Personally, and strange as this may sound; I don't care whether it was about terrorists, or WMDs, or the price of oil, or whatever.

I'm 'supporting' this war on the priciple of the fact that the U.S. is standing in for the U.N. on the issue of disarming Iraq of illegal weapons that it supposedly has.

And you know, you're right. The inspections probably would have worked. But, they might not have. What would bere stopping Saddam from building more missiles at an underground facility?

Though, I do agree, the inspections mgiht have worked, and it is quite suspicious that the U.S. condemned it without waiting to see the results.

As far as war still being an option; it still almost certainly wouldn't have made it through the security council.

The only way the Security Council would have approved it, is if the Resolution the U.S., U.K. and Spain tried to pass went though; and I'm not sure it would have. I'm not even sure if they delayed the deadline and consulted with the inspectors it would have gone through. But, it's too late now.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">

Read this article, you may find it interesting:

Blair 'delayed US strike on Iraq' (BBC) <span id='postcolor'>

[Tex -USMC- 0]

Has anybody posted the news story about the warehouse the Brits found full of human remains? I caught some footage on TV; apparently they found a building with hundreds of bags full of assorted human remains. The bags containing skulls indicated that most had died via a bullet to the head. They were old however, so whenever Saddam's goons did it, it was a while ago. I'd appreciate it if someone could post a link to an article.

Edit: found one, here ya go: http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30000-1086375,00.html

[red oct 2]

somebody mentioned it somewhere around here, maybe it was in the dogs of war thread. they said as many as 200 remains of people stored in boxes, i was watching video footage and there where piles of these boxes the british troops found. it was pretty shocking, i mean why would Sadam just leave this sort of stuff lying around like this? i hope he's stupid enough to repeat the same w/ any possible chemical weapons.

[turms 0]

I think there is no information about the origins or the cause of death/killers of the bodies,just speculations,article said that the bodies are gonna be sent to pathologist investigator who can determinate t6heyr cause of death/time and so on...

[Tex -USMC- 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (turms @ April 06 2003,04:57)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I think there is no information about the origins or the cause of death/killers of the bodies,just speculations,article said that the bodies are gonna be sent to pathologist investigator who can determinate t6heyr cause of death/time and so on...<span id='postcolor'>

Not all that much speculation is needed, as in the next bulding they found a ledger accounting for the cause of death of all the victims, plus there was a post outside that was pockmarked with bullets, firing squad style.

[turms 0]

Tex,read it again,it didnt say anything about lists of the cause of deaths,or when did they die.the list was only the names of the dead people.

[turms 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The area has been sealed off and is being treated as a mass war grave by UK troops, as experts try to determine how long they have been there.

The BBC's Ben Brown said local people had told him the remains were of Iraqi soldiers killed in the 1980-88 Iran-Iraq war, recently returned from Tehran.

<span id='postcolor'>

BBC

[Tex -USMC- 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (turms @ April 06 2003,05:27)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Tex,read it again,it didnt say anything about lists of the cause of deaths,or when did they die.the list was only the names of the dead people.<span id='postcolor'>

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">There was also a book which appeared to contain a handwritten list of the dead.

A neighbouring building reportedly contained catalogues of photographs of the dead, most of whom had died from gunshot wounds to the head.

Others were said to be mutilated beyond recognition, with faces burned and swollen.

A reporter from the PA news agency at the scene described what appeared to be a "purpose-built shooting gallery" outside.

A tiled plinth, about a foot high, stood in a courtyard and the brickwork behind it was riddled with bullets.

Behind it was a drainage ditch.<span id='postcolor'>

Read before hitting the 'add reply' button in the future.

[turms 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">in the next bulding they found a ledger accounting for the cause of death of all the victims,<span id='postcolor'>

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">contained catalogues of photographs of the dead, most of whom had died from gunshot wounds to the head.

<span id='postcolor'>

Most is not all,and the fact is we dont know yet who are these people,or what/who has killed them.

[Tovarish 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (turms @ April 06 2003,05:38)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">in the next bulding they found a ledger accounting for the cause of death of all the victims,<span id='postcolor'>

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">contained catalogues of photographs of the dead, most of whom had died from gunshot wounds to the head.

<span id='postcolor'>

Most is not all,and the fact is we dont know yet who are these people,or what/who has killed them.<span id='postcolor'>

I think we can rule out SARS

[Tex -USMC- 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (turms @ April 06 2003,05:38)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Most is not all,and the fact is we dont know yet who are these people,or what/who has killed them.<span id='postcolor'>

Use the brain that God gave you.

And watch the video that accompanies the article, as it lays it all out. For chrissakes man, who do you think did it? I'll give you a hint: he's got a moustache, and he's been known to do this sort of thing in the past.

[turms 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I think we can rule out SARS <span id='postcolor'>

Im with you on that one.I am not trying to defend Saddam/Iraqis on this but i want to know the facts

before I make my conclusion,if a investigative group makes a report of the bodies and provide some facts about the killers/cause of death,then im convinced about the results.

But i dont find the media to be a authority to announce the facts at the same day the bodys were found.