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Midnighters

Tanks - Autoloader Wish

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Is there going to be importance to have a loader now?

Or are the gunners still loading literally everything on their own still?

 

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7 minutes ago, Midnighters said:

Is there going to be importance to have a loader now?

Or are the gunners still loading literally everything on their own still?

 

Autoloaders.

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5 minutes ago, Night515 said:

Autoloaders.

yeah but why? 

This would expand on more roles as a crewman squad,

and overall put more importance in playing as a team.

Something that has been lacking a lot lately throughout the community

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3 minutes ago, das attorney said:

It's a really boring job though - I wouldn't want to play as a loader in MP.

And even in real life the most hated Job in a tank. Btw. the use of a 19 year old simple soldir is the reason why NATO tanks reload time goes down very quickly... those 18-21 Kilograms don't lug around by themselfs.

Autoloaders are coming right now in all new tank projects.

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39 minutes ago, das attorney said:

It's a really boring job though - I wouldn't want to play as a loader in MP.

Doesn't matter if it's boring or not,

it'd certainly bring a level of depth into play. 

You'd have more roles as a crewman,

and more responsibilities.

Instead of a one man army 

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19 minutes ago, Midnighters said:

Doesn't matter if it's boring or not,

it'd certainly bring a level of depth into play. 

You'd have more roles as a crewman,

and more responsibilities.

Instead of a one man army 

Whats would the gameplay be like...push a button every shot?

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1 hour ago, Beagle said:

Whats would the gameplay be like...push a button every shot?

I think you are largely undermining what I have to say,

regardless. I believe this could put importance towards overall ammunition awareness and logistics handling. So the loader would be in charge of souping up the tank with ammo before taking off.

Obviously this would have to be something that is done inside a community,
but I think it's definitely more of a concept than push a button every shot. 

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2 hours ago, Midnighters said:

I think you are largely undermining what I have to say,

regardless. I believe this could put importance towards overall ammunition awareness and logistics handling. So the loader would be in charge of souping up the tank with ammo before taking off.

Obviously this would have to be something that is done inside a community,
but I think it's definitely more of a concept than push a button every shot. 

This is completely out of the scope of vanilla ArmA 3, really. Not even DCS or Steels Beasts delve any deeper into that department. Having earned my first stripe as a cargo truck driver in the armed forces I would love to have more insight into Logistics in ArmA 3... but it must have some playability value which I cant see in a playable Loader. btw. the Loader is not the only one of the crew who does the rearming or maintenance...all of that is a full crew job, yes including the Commander.

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11 hours ago, Beagle said:

Whats would the gameplay be like...push a button every shot?

 

R - bang - R - bang - R -bang

Exciting :)

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14 hours ago, Beagle said:

This is completely out of the scope of vanilla ArmA 3, really. Not even DCS or Steels Beasts delve any deeper into that department. Having earned my first stripe as a cargo truck driver in the armed forces I would love to have more insight into Logistics in ArmA 3... but it must have some playability value which I cant see in a playable Loader. btw. the Loader is not the only one of the crew who does the rearming or maintenance...all of that is a full crew job, yes including the Commander.

understood,

regardless.

There is a significant lack of teamwork, even internally as a small squad in ArmA these days.

something needs to change over the next few years, work together or be punished by lack there of in some way

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2 hours ago, Midnighters said:

understood,

regardless.

There is a significant lack of teamwork, even internally as a small squad in ArmA these days.

something needs to change over the next few years, work together or be punished by lack there of in some way

I understand the issue, but what gave you the idea that having a loader or logistics would make teamwork better? If anything, developing game mechanic systems and game modes that allow players to easily coordinate tactically without language barrier and without requiring voice chat and also encourage it. This would be the key to more and better teamwork. This would benefit the game. Logistics and stuff like dedicated loaders are just menial tasks that in of themself do not contribute anything positive to the overal employment /coordination of units  or tactical/ strategical thinking in battle.

 

It would end up like the stamina system - on most pub servers admins disable it/ don't use it so players can all run around with 50kg of gear.

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It would be nice to have that option for singleplayer, though. Simply requiring the loader to be present and turned in (that is, not manning the machine gun) to be able to reload the gun would be nice. Actual "player-side" functionality should be minimal (such as aforementioned "R->bang", maybe ammo selection) and actually used only for emergencies. For example, you may lose your loader and would be required to switch positions to fire. Perhaps some sort of stamina system would be good, too, because the loader getting tired is a serious concern during rapid, prolonged firing. AI loader's skill level could also influence maximum rate of fire (so that an USMC-operated Abrams would have different ROF from one pilfered by jihadis).

 

It would probably end up being disabled on most MP servers, but on the other hand, SP experience would be improved.

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It's good to get both options:
- autoadloader (configurable)
- loader (customizable)
This will help in the MOD, the implementation of the simulator interaction of the tank crews with the autoloader and the loader.
Simulator does not give you the opportunity to test, compare and evaluate these two systems of loading.

 

 

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This has gotten slightly off-topic I guess, but a few things come to mind before the mods come hunting for us ;) .

 

No vanilla A3 vehicles have a "loader" position (correct me if I'm wrong), so technically speaking they have no purpose in the vanilla game. You have a driver (very important), gunner (also very important) and commander (this guy THINKS he is important).

 

I am already assuming that at least one of the DLC tanks will feature 2 crewmembers. A version that has no crew in the turret. The turret will probably feature autoloader, be quite a bit smaller than conventional crewed turrets and be very safe to operate in a hull-down position. The roles of the crew will most likely be driver and gunner (commander). This would explain one more reason as to why they added the new AI-driver commandeering. You could technically make a tank without the driver and give that role to the commander, and have a dedicated gunner if you like.

 

However, this goes for the Vanilla game.

 

Mods such as RHS and IFA3 have a great number of vehicles that have 4 or more crewmembers. For such vehicles there may be a dedicated loader. With the new FFV mechanics, a loader may serve as a gunner for turrets, MG's or use his personal firearm when turned out. He may also become an extra pair of eyes to scan the battlefield for threats, and even serve as a backup crew for any of the other slots in case they are KIA. So already, the loader can be useful in an MP environment. However, the game does not require the loader to be present in order to reload the weapon, nor does he have any effect on the reload process.

 

If it were up to me to improve the loader functionality within the game in a meaningful and balanced way I'd propose the following:

 

  • Allow the vehicle to have config-defined reload mechanic, either the weapon is auto-loaded, or it is manually loaded.
  • Define in config what crew-seat is normally responsible for loading the weapon (normally Loader, but could be gunner or commander depending on vehicle type).
  • Make AI skill influence the reload time (expert AI reload as fast as human crew, rookie AI get a 25% penalty. Example 10s reload for human. 12,5 second reload for rookie AI).
  • Human crew always gives the maximum Rate of Fire.
  • Absence of the dedicated loader crew will induce a serious penalty to reload (e.g 50% penalty). Opposing vehicles with 10s reload, would have 10s vs 15s, meaning that vehicle with loader can fire 4 shells in the time it takes vehicle without loader to fire 3.

What the player would actually be doing is scanning sectors and manning any MGs at his disposal, while at the same time providing the vehicle with the best possible rate of fire. It adds more depth to the gameplay without overcomplicating things (IMHO). It could easily become frustrating if he was told to reload AP, then just use action menu to select round, hit R -> repeat. Better if he is like an extra "passenger with benefits" :) 

 

A tactical decision for the commander in case of the loss of a gunner. He could order the driver to get into the loader seat, or move himself in order to gain that crucial rate of fire, that could turn the tide in the heat of the moment. However, he wouldn't HAVE to do it. 

 

 

 

Anyways, enough dreaming. The fire control system is working well imho. Turned up the object view distance yesterday and messed around with it at long ranges. It works really well :) (Rowing my boat back to On Topic... nothing to see here)

 

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1 hour ago, Strike_NOR said:

No vanilla A3 vehicles have a "loader" position (correct me if I'm wrong), so technically speaking they have no purpose in the vanilla game. You have a driver (very important), gunner (also very important) and commander (this guy THINKS he is important).

Why then different models of tanks? Why Tank DLS? Models of tanks shoot equally, there are between them, no advantages and shortcomings.
It is possible to use in general only one model of the tank, for each party different colors of coloring. Tactics, where everyone tries to use advantage of characteristics and configuration of model = 0 :e:

 

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45 minutes ago, lex__1 said:

Why then different models of tanks? Why Tank DLS? Models of tanks shoot equally, there are between them, no advantages and shortcomings.
It is possible to use in general only one model of the tank, for each party different colors of coloring. Tactics, where everyone tries to use advantage of characteristics and configuration of model = 0 :e:

 

There are actually dramatic differences between the three vanilla tanks. Speed, firepower, armour and manoeuvrability.

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I don't see anything preventing anyone from actually making a tank with a working loader position. :whistle:

 

But why would you anyway. You don't need the commander as is, let alone a loader. If the AI is manning it, it's a waste of system resources, if a player is manning it, he won't be manning it for long. Unless someone really has a hard-on for QTEs.

 

You could make it so if you don't hit the R button in time, you drop the shell on your foot or something like that, yeah? Chance to load a wrong round or fumble it somehow in a way that destroys the entire tank! They could even make it like Division for UAVs or Battlefield tablet commanders, where you can connect to the server and be a loader of a tank from a tablet! Load 4 rounds in perfect timing and the next shell loaded gets a damage boost! Unlock extras like, grippy gloves, increased upper arm strength, in-the-zone and as a final upgrade, an autoloader!

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On 18.10.2017 at 4:45 PM, R3vo said:

There are actually dramatic differences between the three vanilla tanks. Speed, firepower, armour and manoeuvrability.

- Speed. For AI, it does not matter how fast you go.
- Maneuverability. Maneuverability does not give advantages directly in battle, gives an advantage in redeployment.
- Firepower. At the moment, the distance of defeat, penetration into the armor is the same on all tanks. The only thing that looks very casual is the ricochet, which
- in one case it leaves a damage.
- in another case, the ricochet occurs with damage.
The main difference is the external difference, dimensions and the presence of the machine gun of the commander Slamer (there is \ no).
Almost 70% of the situations, one shot in any tank, disembarks the entire crew from the tank.

 

Some characteristics of HEP\GM\APDS\HEAT types rounds and range and application

https://imgur.com/zqUQQQA

 

Likely the best video about the device, the principle and work of a modern fighting vehicle .

 

Is there any planned dynamic loading on tanks and an extension for HEP \ GM?

https://imgur.com/DsvbeKw

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On 10/16/2017 at 3:45 PM, Beagle said:

And even in real life the most hated Job in a tank. Btw. the use of a 19 year old simple soldir is the reason why NATO tanks reload time goes down very quickly... those 18-21 Kilograms don't lug around by themselfs.

Autoloaders are coming right now in all new tank projects.

That, and they're much easier than an autoloader to replace.

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2 hours ago, AegisWolf said:

That, and they're much easier than an autoloader to replace.

in 2017 it is already easier to inststall an Autoloader than finding new recruits that do such a job for more then 6 months. Result... you will never have an exprienced one, only freshmen. I did that peculiar job 6 weeks before I got a better posting and I really wanted to get a better posting than that asap.

 

AND you will have trouble finding guys that are small enough. Its already not confortable in ost Tanks when you're longer (with boots) than 1,90.

The Loader is one of the reason why designs like the Challenger, Leopard II and Abrams have such a large and high profile.

The Leclerc is the smalles MBT of western design for a reason ( -50 cm compared) ... it uses an Autoloader.

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