Laws of War DLC Feedback

[pierremgi 4737]

9 hours ago, lexx said:

I went with "everyone is at fault", because I feel you can't just blame one group.

 

Sure it's a game. So, no matter with teddy bear advisement. Even in a greyed conflict, you have some arsonists and peace keepers. But it's no more politically correct.

It's not BI / Arma role trying to educ us anyway!

[lexx 1331]

Sorry, I don't think I understand what you are trying to say?

 

[DnA 5015]

On 9/9/2017 at 4:01 AM, telkwa said:

This DLC ruined my saved games.  I spent countless hours saving games from user missions, now can't use any of them.

Sorry to hear that. As an interim solution you can temporarily switch back to 1.74 via the Legacy Branch (see these notes), finish the ones you want, and then come back to 1.76.

[ProfTournesol 956]

The campaign is, IMHO, the most enjoyable from all BIS' ArmA3 campaigns. I was very disappointed by Apex protocol , but Remnants of War shows that BI is still able to produce high quality campaign, and not only "go there - kill everybody - go here - kill everybody - etc.". Congratulations.

[FoxFort 341]

After reading Article at the end:

 

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/000/615/323/027.jpg

 

Overall it is a good DLC, +1 for campaign, good job on that. I haven't played A3 for months, I've been "out of a game". The new Helmets, are they free to be retextured, if yes can those who don't have the DLC use it?

[Mynock 243]

100% do not read this if you haven't played the campaign. You've been warned.

Spoiler

Was it just me, or was anyone else hardcore clenching when leaving the town in the van for the final time when Nathan hangs up the phone? I was like "BI I swear if this van blows up because of a mine that was 'missed' I shall cry..." I was really worried that cliche moment would be put in, but I'm happy it was not!

 

[maxl30 81]

First it is an great DLC and also an great Campaign !

 

But i have an IDEA for an Update for Laws of War or an new feture for Tanks DLC - we NEED an REAL ANTI MINE TANK !

The Bobcat with the shield and the engeneering crane is an Sapper/Engeneering vihicle/tank !!!

 

In the reality it blows up !!!! 

 

Make an Mine Roller for the Hunter, Fenneck and the russian thing or for the Tanks

Like this: 

 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vxOVPt2ueT8

 

Oooor an real anti mine tank/vehicle with rotoring bars like this: 

 

 

SORRY, but bobcat sucks !

I hope i see my Ideas in the future Arma ^^

[das attorney 857]

Spoiler alert!  Do Don't read this post if you haven't played the campaign

 

Congrats on a good few enjoyable hours of campaign.  I would say this has been my favourite OFP/Arma campaign perhaps with the exception of the one on X-Box (maybe CWC or Resistance), I can't remember clearly as it was so long ago, however I was younger when I played that and action-action-action was more my thing.  The more sedate pace of this campaign sat nicely with me and was a good mix of meandering exploration and also hardcore gun-fights (I really went at it in the church)!

 

It was also enjoyable that the stakes were low - I was worried it might be the "Force Awakens" of Arma with another plot about death stars  nuclear bombs but thankfully it was not, and was more refreshing for it.

 

The storytelling was very well done.  It reminded me of watching a Christopher Nolan film, where the narrative is played out of order but is cyclical in nature.  I kind of knew it would end up at the church, as it was a very focal point for the story, but that was satisfying as it finishes like how it starts and feels like it came full-circle.

 

Obv, the subject matter is a sensitive one, but I thought it was handled intelligently and I didn't feel like I was being beaten over the head with "landmines = bad".

Spoiler

 As previous poster mentioned as well, thanks for not taking the cheap route of killing off the main character at the end.  I thought you would but I was glad you didn't!

 

One of the best points (for me) was the quality of the dialogue and voice acting.  The two main actors sounded really natural and compelling.  I was so pleased they were good as they're central to the plot and you have to spend a lot of time with them.  Good casting there BI  :)  Also, the music was suitably atmospheric as well, plus also really relaxing when it cut to the memory segments.

 

I'll give it a bit of time before I go back and play it again, but I will definitely replay it (which is rare for me and BI campaigns).

 

A high watermark in the Arma series indeed!

 

 

[Undeceived 392]

Completely agree.

 

The only small point I would criticize in the campaign (it's a rather technical one) was

 

Spoiler

the major suddenly being setpossed in the chopper from the church.

This was a confusing part as I saw the exfil marker and went out of the church, but the major stayed there. I thought it was a bug and reloaded as it didn't make sense for him to stay there. Went alone then, boarded the chopper only to see him in there too.

 

This could have been solved in a better way IMO, but of course I know why it was made this way (the majors AI would have been killed by a mine immediately due to its poor collision detection - I myself stuck to the outer church wall). At least a small cutscene showing him leaving the church compound after the player has left it would have been better though. After that he could just follow the player ("I'm wounded, take us out of here!")

 

[HaseDesTodes 62]

2 hours ago, Undeceived said:

Completely agree.

 

The only small point I would criticize in the campaign (it's a rather technical one) was

 

  Hide contents

the major suddenly being setpossed in the chopper from the church.

This was a confusing part as I saw the exfil marker and went out of the church, but the major stayed there. I thought it was a bug and reloaded as it didn't make sense for him to stay there. Went alone then, boarded the chopper only to see him in there too.

 

This could have been solved in a better way IMO, but of course I know why it was made this way (the majors AI would have been killed by a mine immediately due to its poor collision detection - I myself stuck to the outer church wall). At least a small cutscene showing him leaving the church compound after the player has left it would have been better though. After that he could just follow the player ("I'm wounded, take us out of here!")

 

 

when i played the campaign during exp. testing phase (the first version released on exp) it worked as it "should" be

Spoiler

the major stayed in the church, until i went out to far, then he went to the exfil location and got into the chopper.

 

i would guess, what you described was implemented in order to make the mission "failsafe". so when there are to many mines in the path, the major just gets setpos-ed.

even though it's not necessary that the major survives, i think it's better this way, than the other way around. it might become really frustrating when you carefully place the mines and take out all the enemys, but then the major dies because of a mine he steps on.

sure there would be better ways to achieve this, but i think, since they probably fixed this last minute it's not to bad.

 

[FoxFort 341]

8 hours ago, Undeceived said:

Completely agree.

 

The only small point I would criticize in the campaign (it's a rather technical one) was

 

  Reveal hidden contents

the major suddenly being setpossed in the chopper from the church.

This was a confusing part as I saw the exfil marker and went out of the church, but the major stayed there. I thought it was a bug and reloaded as it didn't make sense for him to stay there. Went alone then, boarded the chopper only to see him in there too.

 

This could have been solved in a better way IMO, but of course I know why it was made this way (the majors AI would have been killed by a mine immediately due to its poor collision detection - I myself stuck to the outer church wall). At least a small cutscene showing him leaving the church compound after the player has left it would have been better though. After that he could just follow the player ("I'm wounded, take us out of here!")

 

Yup had a same thing, after reloading again the same, when I decided to F him and went alone, he spawned there.

[Mynock 243]

I waited a while, but eventually gave up and moved to the point alone, however

Spoiler

while then waiting for the helicopter at the point, I noticed the Major had indeed begun moving toward the same position. I think the Major waits for the helicopter to land before moving out perhaps? I also shot the remaining mines I could find to try and clear him a path, not sure if that had anything to do with him moving. But yes, somewhat confusing, especially if I were a new player and didn't understand the mechanics and limitations of the AI.

 

[ProfTournesol 956]

Yup, same for me, but as 

 

Spoiler

The major isn't able to avoid the mines, i perfectly understood the need for a scripted solution

 

[Alwarren 2765]

So, after release, here's my feedback on the Laws of War DLC. Some of it will probably not make friends, but well, here we go.

 

First of all I enjoyed the campaign. It was well done, high production value, very original, well voice-acted, and the definitive highlight of the pack. All of the assets quality is very good, the Van is a very nice addition.

As a matter of fact, I only really have one criticism of the DLC.

 

All of the DLC tells me to respect the laws of armed conflict, which is well and good, and something that more games should strive to do. However, in the end it has zero impact on the gameplay of Arma 3 itself, and ends up being only waving a finger of moral superiority into the player's face. 

 

Why? Because even after this DLC, Civilian assets and ambient civilian life is underdeveloped and not at all represented in the game.

 

I said it on numerous occasions and probably will sound like a broken record, but what I was really hoping for was an efficient, in-engine solution for the Ambient Cars and Ambient Civilian modules from Arma 2. There modules could actually get civilian life on the map and make the lessons from the Laws of War DLC significant beyond the "War is Bad" message (which quite ironically complements the "This Is War" subtitle). None of the lessons from the Showcase has any bearing even on the campaign itself, nor on any of the previous campaigns in Arma 3 since none of them represents civilians in any shape or form on the battlefield. 

 

For most missions, it's too much hassle and frankly, too much lag, to fill the map with a meaningful amount of men in shorts. While Arma 2 tackled topics like wartime rape and civilian mass executions in a war-torn country, the only thing we get from that in Arma 3 it the raised finger of "don't shoot civilians" that, as I pointed out above, does not have any bearing on the game. There are no encounters with civilians on any mission I have played (with a few exceptions that take place in a sufficiently isolated area so that lag is no longer an issue). The Alpha and Beta of Arma 3 had "sites" on the civilian site, but they were removed from the game prior to release. Civilian interaction (even the "hello" and "what's the weather forecast") have been completely stripped, as is my much-loved ALICE and SILVIE.

 

I know that other mods, like CUP, offer more civilian assets, but please understand that it isn't really the assets I am talking about (even though, yeah it could use more). It is the lack of integration of that content, even what's already there, into the game that is what I am talking about.

 

Of course, one could argue that "if you want something like SILVIE and ALICE, feel free to make it yourself", but that is a bogus argument. You can stretch it as much as you like. "No we don't need helicopters in the game, if you need them make them yourself". And there is always the lag issue. having 200+ AI on the map (combatants and non-combatants) would pose too much of a strain, so preferrably this would have to be at least partially supported by the engine. Also, a lot of the information that was contained in the Arma 2 maps has not been carried over to Arma 3, making an implementation even more difficult.

 

I feel like the LoW DLC would have been the ideal umbrella under which such an extension could have been done. I appreciate the fact that is wasn't in the scope, that resources are limited, etc etc.. yet, I do think it is a valid concern, and it's one of the very few points where Arma 2 still outdoes Arma 3.

 

Sorry for the long post. No potato here.

[Variable 322]

I sign on every word on Alwarren's post. I'll just add that a civilian emphasis with no women and no children is just lame. Sorry for using such a strong word but it amazed me that with all the emphasis on the effect of war on civilian life, effort could not be assigned to at least partially represent said civilian life.

[joostsidy 682]

2 hours ago, Alwarren said:

snippidisnipsnip

I can imagine the frustration of this regression in the series. You had something and now you don't and there is not really a super good reason for it.

 

For what it's worth, I learned to accept some things. Arma is very good in tempting with grand ideas. I spent many hours on dynamic waypoints with vehicles, for instance dropping off vehicles with helicopters at different points and they would drive different routes depending on the landing place and circumstances of the battlefield. Unfortunately that's where Arma shows its cracks, and we know AI vehicles can get in serious trouble managing themselves.

 

I don't like it, I hoped Arma would have progressed further in this area, but it is the way it is. I've learned to let go of the total-dynamics plans and applied the same ideas to a smaller scale. So now I create missions where you can drop vehicles off in roughly two or three places and the vehicles pick between two or three routes depending on the information they have about mine fields for instance. It's still a lot of fun and the dynamics of this type of mission are still miles beyond similar games even with these constraints.

 

Even though civ community simulation sounds super cool (I haven't played Arma 2), it's probably not going to happen. On the other hand, there are enough assets to maybe create limited civ scenario's that give some of the same feel? I feel there are enough assets to create at least partially civilian scenario's with for instance construction workers and medical personel that overlaps with a military situation. With this limited scope there is enough variation to create different scenario's.

 

That's at least what I plan to do with the new content.

[Rydygier 1302]

Maybe I would propose a bit more optimistic view here? Yes, all that about civs is true. And exactly because of what was said here, LoW poses yet another motivation/reason/pressure source toward expanding and deepening civilian aspect of A3. LoW by intention highlights a fresh point of view on war, and by this very fact highlights mentioned lacks on the subject of this view. Sheds the light on the irritating vacuum, which makes this emptiness of desolated islands the more glaring and calling for attention. Harder to ignore and accept. Begging for enlivening. 

[pierremgi 4737]

Thanks BI for this campaign. But I liked the other ones also! It's a different atmosphere. You did a tremendous work for the scenario, flashbacks, missions flow...

I'm not totally agree with the final question, with some educative purpose based on short analysis, but it's not really important.

 

On the other hand, as a suggestion, I hope you will implement some non-lethal weapons / close hand fight behaviors, and over all, the fact an enemy can be incapacitated / arrested, not always wounded or killed.

On my mind, the non-combatant or "no more combatant" side of the game still can be implemented. ICRC should agree.

[fraczek 4]

On 9/13/2017 at 9:19 PM, ProfTournesol said:

Yup, same for me, but as 

 

  Hide contents

The major isn't able to avoid the mines, i perfectly understood the need for a scripted solution

 

Could be solved with a bit of dialogue, like

Spoiler

the major ordering you to go check if the LZ is secure or something while staying in the church. Him just standing there not saying anything was a bit confusing at first.

 

[cas 41]

Great campaign!!!

Love it!

I was really worried after the Apex campaign (spoiled the add-on for me and I still hope they convert the Apex campaign to a popper SP campaign too)

 

I have big respect for BIS for making an effort to educate about laws of war.

 

Still hope for improved medical simulation and MEDEVAC functions -would fit perfect to the new items and vehicles.

 

Made me start playing the original campaign again!

Thanks for all the fixes in the original campaigns! (please remove the forced regular diff. for the prologue)

 

[krycek 349]

I finally had time to finish the campaign.

The Good:

Awesome campaign, frankly I'm very impressed. BIS demonstrated they still have the talent to create immersive stories in their sandbox games.

Seriously, to the guys that worked on this campaign kudos to you (and hopefully you had lots of champagne to celebrate).

Like I said before the van is nice, a gendarmerie skin would have been a great addition though. Another great addition would have been if you also added the smaller van (the wrecked model we had from main game).

The new unique outfits.

The mine dispenser(sadistically good, those poor pixels are suffering because of you).

Realistic price even on it's own( I have the dlc bundle 2) when comparing with the overpriced useless crap the other games offer as "dlc".

 

The Bad:

Most useless advertised feature: leaflets

Cargo drone is useless for me, it doesn't do what I was expecting.

 

The Ugly:

The amount of retextures that at one point I called this dlc Laws of Retextures.

Subpar civ faction and in the end very low amount of content compared with BIS past (and no, I don't count the new props as proper extra content).

[dk-vcb 31]

is there a possibility for the last mission of the campaign where they talk about the whole of altis is riddled with minefields that you could make it able to go and clear it out as part of clean up job.. mean this obviously for real not sarcastic.

 

and also if idap was gonna have more equiptment for mineclearing i dont think a tank is something theyd be driving around in. more like a Hydrema 910 mineflail.

 

[pipyn1970 19]

I love how this campaign is made. In my opinion It's the best one of then all BUT...

I wish 2 things were different.

1) I wish there was a proper mine detector in the players hand.

2) I wish that as the player was marking the mines only, that he Maybe Sprayed close to the mine with a large dot or x. 

[pipyn1970 19]

I was a little dissapointed With the civilian faction guys. It would of been nice to have women, farmers, tractors maybe?

As we are focusing on how war effects not only troops but the Civ Pop, It would of been nice to see people returning home now the village was made safe and maybe more use of the bulldog or a proper anti mine roller on the hunter.

[ProfTournesol 956]

I heard a swiss guy from the International Committee of the Red Cross promoting the Arma3 LoW dlc on a French news radio this morning, that was nice and a little weird.