Women soldiers?

[ran 0]

in my opinion , the women are only here for making children and housework , but it doesn't bother me if they do otherwise , they're free

served a few times with female soldiers , and actually got one under my orders once , i think that in one sense , they're better than men because they have other capacities than physical ones , the women generally have some instinctive leadership , they're more obedient and less rough than men

[BaronVonRed 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ Nov. 21 2002,21:10)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">BaronVonRed, you have a very twisted view on soldiering. Also, nobody is debating if women in average are physically weaker then men - they are. What we are saying is that women who can pass the same tests and handle the same job as men should be able to do so without any problems.<span id='postcolor'>

What is so twisted about making sure that your front line (basically the Marines) are the strongest, toughest, meanest humans alive? That's not twisted, it's good sense.

And yes, Bal IS debating that women are not inferior physically. He said (in my list) that none of them were based on fact.

If they are physically weaker, why would you want them on your front line? I have ALWAYS agreed that they YES they have a place in the military, but it ain't as a combat soldier or a marine. That's what I've been saying all along.

[ran 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (BaronVonRed @ Nov. 21 2002,21:17)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ Nov. 21 2002,21:10)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">BaronVonRed, you have a very twisted view on soldiering. Also, nobody is debating if women in average are physically weaker then men - they are. What we are saying is that women who can pass the same tests and handle the same job as men should be able to do so without any problems.<span id='postcolor'>

What is so twisted about making sure that your front line (basically the Marines) are the strongest, toughest, meanest humans alive?  That's not twisted, it's good sense.

And yes, Bal IS debating that women are not inferior physically. He said (in my list) that none of them were based on fact.

If they are physically weaker, why would you want them on your front line? I have ALWAYS agreed that they YES they have a place in the military, but it ain't as a combat soldier or a marine. That's what I've been saying all along.<span id='postcolor'>

depends , i know some girls whose physical fitness is ... they can do more pushups than me ....

the advantages of the women are not the physic , they have more intellectual capacities and i think that they are more resistant than men in some cases *edit* : in some case , they have more volunty than men

i remember during a climbing exercise i had the same woman as mentionned earlier in my other post in my team , where another guy had just left the rope and sat down on the ground yelling that he didn't give a fuck about climbing the wall and that he was to tired to do it (he wasn't apparently that tired and didn't have anything broken or scratched) , the girl , in weak physical fitness , continued , and instead of simply dropping everything , she cried for like 1 or 2 minutes , but then she took back the rope and arrived on the top of the climbing wall with some light hand wounds

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (BaronVonRed @ Nov. 21 2002,21:17)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">If they are physically weaker, why would you want them on your front line? I have ALWAYS agreed that they YES they have a place in the military, but it ain't as a combat soldier or a marine. That's what I've been saying all along.<span id='postcolor'>

Beacause they are not all weaker! They are weaker in average. That doesn't mean that no woman is stronger then a man.

[advocatexxx 0]

I would have to agree that they are somewhat more capable of enduring pain than men. Maybe that monthly torture through which they go through has trained them. Maybe they are infact our secret protectors and not the other way around. Just thank god humans aren't a-sexuals.

[ran 0]

i once seen a female AA T F1 gunner

[Bart.Jan 0]

Women are same country citizens as men are. So they should have same right to defend their country and every branch of armed forces shoud be opened for them. But they shoud serve under the same conditions as men (including physical). Withou exeptions.

And for BaronVonRed :

I think that well documented, scientific F A C T is that men have higher physical disposition that women. No that women are physically inferior to men. Women have higher pain-limit that men on the other side.

In time of guns you do not need olympic-athlete Arnold  soldiers but soldiers that match some physical standart. And with proper hand-to-hand fight training (e.g. musado) less powerfull and smaller fighter can defeat taller and stronger one, despite of sex. You are sexist.

[PitViper 0]

if you want the answer to the physical question regarding men and women,  simply watch any marathon. I think this is a good representation because, in my experience, endurance is 98% of a good soldier's physical abilities.

[Longinius 1]

"If they are physically weaker, why would you want them on your front line? I have ALWAYS agreed that they YES they have a place in the military, but it ain't as a combat soldier or a marine. That's what I've been saying all along."

Because even if they are weaker on average they might still have what it takes. Modern day combat isnt just about brawns, it takes a lot of brains aswell. From my time working with the military I know that the women that tend to join up do have what it takes, physically, to do the job. Some of the women were even in better shape than many of the men, simply because they had to prove themselves.

Seems like someone here is a bit jealous and doesnt want to share his toys. Might also be the fact that someone is afraid that a woman will out shoot him, out run him or simply kick his ass...

[-76-Chavez 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (brgnorway @ Nov. 21 2002,00:44)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">What if the girl falls in love with a fellow soldier and engage in sexual activities.

<span id='postcolor'>

So what?

[cybrid 0]

I didn't read the whole thread, but why can't women serve their time in tanks?

And what aobut all of the equipment soldiers are required to carry. There must be very few women than could carry a full load as the average male soldier.

Also, do they have more efficent muscle tissue than us or somthing? I know this one girl that can lift things that even I struggle with, and she's a little more than half my weight, and I have a pretty large build.

[Frisbee 0]

I've had the pleasure to met a female ex-para.She had an argument with a guy and pushed him into some metal filing cabinets when it heated up,she could've seriously whipped him if she wanted to(and do the same to most of the forum-goers here to i think).Her words : 'Yeah I used to be a para,and before you ask yes, I am a lesbian tomboy.'

In general women are weaker yeah,but some are a lot stronger,or equal.

Just consider the 'fact' that a wounded woman is even worse to a man than a hurt guy,natural reflex,I *think* this was tested and provenThis would make men take 'unnecessary' risks to try and save a wounded woman.

[brgnorway 0]

Lots of interesting thoughts here. My point was not if the female soldier is unfit for military service due to lack of strength. There are many female officers and some grunts in the norwegian military. Most of them are actually just as capable as the male soldiers - and some even better. I would like to see some of you guys here trying to kick an Israeli Sabra's ass - they would scare the living daylights out of you! (you might want to ask Avonlady about this?)

My point was rather a socio-cultural one! How would men generally react to female soldiers in the military? I think many of you have answered this in a way that has adressed your own view on females - It's not hard to conduct from this that a few of you are chauvinistic towards women!

[brgnorway 0]

Some links of interest:

http://www.nato.int/sfor/indexinf/142/p04a/t02p04a.htm

http://www.abc.net.au/pm/s682036.htm

For you scandinavians:

http://www.oslomilsamfund.no/foredrag/oms210200karame.html

Some famous women fighters:

Rigoberta Menchu

Jeanne D'arc

The amazons

Golda Meir

[FSPilot 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Jinef @ Nov. 21 2002,23:29)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">So you are saying there are more gay women than men? i think you'll find that's wrong if you research it.<span id='postcolor'>

How on earth did you come to that conclusion?

If you have women and men in the same place, natural things are going to happen *nudge nudge wink wink*

If you have straight men together in the same place, those things won't happen, neither will all the problems that come along with those natural things.

That's the long version of the point I was trying to make.

[Balschoiw 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">If you have straight men together in the same place, those things won't happen, neither will all the problems that come along with those natural things.

<span id='postcolor'>

dont be to sure of that. Always watch your 6 when your soap slips out of hand under the community shower

[Frizbee 0]

Woman or Man, if I serve in combat I want to know that the person I am fighting or flying alongside is capable of doing the job that we have been ordered to do.

I have nothing against women serving in any role in the military. HOWEVER... there should be none of this pansy-arsed attitude of "Women get less pushups and situps, and shorter times for the chin-hangs" than men.

That sort of attitude will only get people killed. If they can't do the physical activities of the job, they shouldn't get in. Regardless. The same goes for men. Can't do the job.. don't get the job.

[Major Fubar 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (BaronVonRed @ Nov. 21 2002,19:57)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I have never met a woman who's ass I could not kick.<span id='postcolor'>

Guess who my money's on!  

[Assault (CAN) 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Always watch your 6 when your soap slips out of hand under the community shower <span id='postcolor'>

When that happened, we all just looked at the guy and laughed at him.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">That sort of attitude will only get people killed. If they can't do the physical activities of the job, they shouldn't get in. Regardless. The same goes for men. Can't do the job.. don't get the job.<span id='postcolor'>

Exactly. One job, one standard.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">but why can't women serve their time in tanks?

<span id='postcolor'>

Some militaries allow women to serve in tanks, some don't. I guess the reasoning behind the ones that don't is this: Tank crews spend alot of time together in close quarters. In the field they could be buttoned down in the same tank for days at a time, there are few secrets between crew members. I guess women might have a tough time attending to their 'unique physical concerns' should they arise. If you catch my drift.

Tyler

Tyler

[Guest BratZ]

I was in the US military about 18 years ago and at that time there were lots of female soldiers.We were segregated for the most part and they did not have the same training/requirements nor did they even have to do the crew cut thing.

But of course that was the start of equal rights and I am sure it must be slightly more equal now.

I am not a huge man ,I am fit,strong and agile and of course not all male soldiers are equal in strength.

I don't worry about whether someone coming to my aid can lift me or drag me,whatever help they could offer is ok with me.

I do not agree with women fighting in combat for a few reasons which are solely my opinion:

Someone needs to be left at home,to raise family and etc.. and to have people at home and for the freedom that you may be fighting for.

I think war and death by that type is a man made thing and we shouldn't involve women into our nasty habits.

A good looking woman would distract me in the field,I would always be thinking about sex (of course this is a personal problem,and is something soldiers would will have to work on)

And we can't say that every guy would act like that as this is my opinion and other guys prolly don't feel that way,and the way sex is nowadays some guy prolly be looking at me while I'm checking the girls anyways

I don't think I would go out of my way to rescue a woman (crying or not) I would rescue the most important and urgent one first,whether male or female,but some guys will defend the ladies etc...(could be a problem)

I think female soldiers are fitting in more and more everyday and soon will be equal with no problems,if they want to do it then it is their choice,same thing as male fashion designers or dressmakers and males that want jobs and roles usually done by women.Its their choice and someday it will be equal,I'm not saying that this is good either

Our society is getting all messed up, marriage isn't the same anymore as the large family is becoming more uncommon,same sex marriages,religion is fading

Hard to say if its all going to work out good and do we want burly women all all jobs open to all?

I think we should stick with jobs that match our genetic makeup ,and have sex with others that are not same genetic makeup

[Bart.Jan 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (BratZ @ Nov. 22 2002,09:35)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Someone needs to be left at home,to raise family and etc.. and to have people at home and for the freedom that you may be fighting for.<span id='postcolor'>

In family where mother is soldier and father is not it make sence to let mother fight, don't you think ?

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I think war and death by that type is a man made thing and we shouldn't involve women into our nasty habits.<span id='postcolor'>

Maybe with more women in higher political posts there will be less war conflicts. Less disdainful and vengeance thinking politicians - the better.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">A good looking woman would distract me in the field,I would always be thinking about sex (of course this is a personal problem,and is something soldiers would will have to work on)<span id='postcolor'>

It can be advantage for woman. Enemy may be in two minds to shoot female soldier and it can be his last mistake. </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I think we should stick with jobs that match our genetic makeup

<span id='postcolor'>

I think we shoud stick with jobs that match our dispositions. Why to hinder woman in doing job that she can do with same quality as man ?

[BaronVonRed 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Major Fubar @ Nov. 22 2002,08:07)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (BaronVonRed @ Nov. 21 2002,19:57)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I have never met a woman who's ass I could not kick.<span id='postcolor'>

Guess who my money's on! <span id='postcolor'>

roflmao - then you'd be a loser for sure!

[BaronVonRed 0]

Women are women, and men are men. They are NOT equal in physical or mental abilities, they are DIFFERENT. They both have their strengths and weaknesses as humans. No man can do EVERYTHING better than a woman can do, and no woman can do EVERYTHING better than a man can do. That's the way it is throughout nature, and that's the way it was intended. Cry about it, argue about it, then deal with it.

[MesserJockel 0]

very interresting discussion

for i am not member of any military organization, i cannot rely on any battle experience. i think that the sheer physical capability of males is an advantage, when it comes to endurance and heavy weaponry; i do not know, what a saw weighs, but i can imagine, that its lots easier for a trained man to carry it (and all the rounds) then for an trained woman.

what i do know, is that shooting itself is more bound to willpower and concentration... and there is no such obvious advantage for both sexes. another point would be, that women (at last the ladies i had the pleasure to work with) have in fact a special talent to decide fast and secure in critical situations.

my point is: if there are women who are capable of doing a grunts job, then why not enlist them to the marines or else. military organizations are far more widespread than only infantry and nursery, so i can imagine a lot of jobs which can be totally fitting for female personnel.

[Bart.Jan 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (BaronVonRed @ Nov. 22 2002,12:56)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Women are women, and men are men. They are NOT equal in physical or mental abilities, they are DIFFERENT. They both have their strengths and weaknesses as humans. No man can do EVERYTHING better than a woman can do, and no woman can do EVERYTHING better than a man can do. That's the way it is throughout nature, and that's the way it was intended. Cry about it, argue about it, then deal with it.<span id='postcolor'>

No man/woman can do EVERYTHING better then another man/woman can do - generally.

But it's all about individual persons, not about men and women generally. You can not deny something for someone only because he/she is part of group that has some generally unacceptable attributes. (racism, nazism, sexism)

Woman are generally physically weaker that men are, but you think it shoud be reason to do not let that woman (from picture above) to be machinegunner ? (if she mets other needed criteria)