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brgnorway

Women soldiers?

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In german BW there are no double standards. Women have to do the same Physical Fitness tests as man have to do. Also training is the same as they do it not separated but together with the regular units.

There have been concerns on accepting females for parachuters, mountain forces, navy and pioneer jobs as they were assumed to be possible sources of trouble with women cause of physical fitness, group behaviour (male) and high costs to modify the current facilities to "woman compatible".

It has shown that all of this was nonsense and it worked even better than the officials thought. As ever the ones that want the job, get the job if they are able to do the job. Same with male and female.

One thing I can tell from 13 years being active in service is that I never experienced a woman going home from a mission cause of mental stress, but I have seen a lot of guys (including marines) being sent back cause they were not able to cope with some situations. And yes women have been along with regular troops and did see / experience the same situations (mass graves, burnt people, killings beside them, and all the things denoir and ran know) as man did. If you check back a few pages you´ll see that I already mentioned that women seem to be more stable in such situations than a lot of man are. Training and spirit and imagination is one thing, but reality is the best judge i guess.

Ah yes and one more thing. i already mentioned the israeli women I have been on STANAFORMED with. We had some guys with us that thought they were superior to women and did a little fight with them at the nightcamp we were. I only can tell that I never thought a women could fight so efficient and reckless. They won. Needless to say. And if anyone now should say: " Hey , the males didnt want to hurt them." I only can say the males got so upset they would have killed them if they only had the chance to. Musado works pretty well with female also and that is what I learnt from this israeli fighters.

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Yes, but pit those same women with some veteran Navy SEALs and I doubt that you would get the same result.

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Women probably make as good soldiers as men. The problem is that men become distracted if women are around. I know this is not the fault of the women, but it is still a problem, since armed forces have more males in them than females.

So women serving is really not a female problem, but a male problem, since we poor males have such a simple mind: Our eyes are wired straight to our dicks.

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you see. the problem here isn't with equal status.  There are egalitarian womens groups who will push anything that will maximize the number of women in the military even at the expense of standards and combat efficiency.  If you understand this, you understand why women's PT standards are are so low in comparison to mens standards.  If there was truly equal access and equal standards, there would actually be FAR LESS women (but very high quality ones) in the military.  This is not what those groups want.

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Not going ot read all 33241320943219084 pages or whatever.

But look at WWII Russian women helped fight the nazis. Damn good fighters too. Slowly women in the US are allowed more and more jobs. I wouldnt mind if they were allowed to do everything. I think they should have a right. Maybe not infantry but anything else. But I wonder what happens with the problem of misconduct between the two sexes and problems ie rape etc.

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Hey Pit !

Do you actually read what others post, or do you reply to a thread without doing so?

You maybe have missed this

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">In german BW there are no double standards. Women have to do the same Physical Fitness tests as man have to do. Also training is the same as they do it not separated but together with the regular units.

There have been concerns on accepting females for parachuters, mountain forces, navy and pioneer jobs as they were assumed to be possible sources of trouble with women cause of physical fitness, group behaviour (male) and high costs to modify the current facilities to "woman compatible".

It has shown that all of this was nonsense and it worked even better than the officials thought. As ever the ones that want the job, get the job if they are able to do the job. Same with male and female.

<span id='postcolor'>

Or is it ignorance ?

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</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Balschoiw @ Dec. 01 2002,20:39)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Hey Pit !

Do you  actually read what others post, or do you reply to a thread without doing so?

You maybe have missed this

...

Or is it ignorance ?<span id='postcolor'>

I read your post. I'm talking about the U.S Army and political motivated groups in the U.S

What does your post about how it is run in the BW have to do with what is going on here? I think it would better for the troops overall if there was a single standard, but the MO for those groups would never even let what you have come to fruition here.

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This thread is not about the US army ! It is about Women in arms. Not US ARMY. There are still some threads that are about another countries than the US and if you opened your eyes you would have seen that we talked about a lot of nations within this thread.

Funny that you think it is always about US.

Keep on with your ignorance and chauvinistic attitude. Luckily decisions are made elsewhere but not in your head.

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3270.jpg

I'm not sure if I look at enemy troops when something like her is around me...

Hmm... Maybe I should join the army...

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</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Balschoiw @ Dec. 02 2002,09:13)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><span id='postcolor'>

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">This thread is not about the US army ! It is about Women in arms. Not US ARMY. There are still some threads that are about another countries than the US and if you opened your eyes you would have seen that we talked about a lot of nations within this thread.<span id='postcolor'>

wtf? I can't comment on my assessment of the army I was in?

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Funny that you think it is always about US.

Keep on with your ignorance and chauvinistic attitude. Luckily decisions are made elsewhere but not in your head.<span id='postcolor'>

you don't have a clue do you?

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Ok, back off, both of you. (Balschoiw and PitViper)

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As for women in the military, who cares? Sure, let them in. But women do not belong in combat. And civil rights, etc, takes no bearing in this. You want to present your strongest soldiers in combat, and women are physically weaker than men. Woman shouldn't serve in combat just because it is their right. Rights have nothing to do with combat, or war in general when it comes to winning or losing the battle.

Sun Tzu teaches three ways to assure defeat. Number one isn't important to this context, but numbers 2 and 3 apply (below):

(2) By attempting to govern an army in the same way as he administers a kingdom, being ignorant of the conditions which obtain in an army. This causes restlessness in the soldier's minds.

(3) By employing the officers of his army without discrimination, through ignorance of the military principle of adaptation to circumstances. This shakes the confidence of the soldiers.

But when the army is restless and distrustful, trouble is sure to come from the other feudal princes. This is simply bringing anarchy into the army, and flinging victory away.

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If a woman in full combat gear and camoed up would make any one of you drool and dribble and run inefficiently as soldiers, then there are some incredibly serious social problems here.

Granted, if said woman soldier was running around naked, greased up and wielding dual M16's then you may slather and gape and be distracted from your duties as would be expected. However having a female in full combat gear alongside you in battle is going to make no difference whatsoever unless you are some kind of perv that gets a hard on when you see anything distinguishable as not male. Because A, with the amount of combat gear they wear, i doubt you would see much of their chest area (one of the main distraction factors) and baggy camo pants are not going to put to much emphasis on said female soldiers rear.

Sure, you get a pretty face to look at rather than an ugly bloke, but i dont see how that is going to distract you from your duties.

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</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KingBeast @ Dec. 02 2002,23:00)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">However having a female in full combat gear alongside you in battle is going to make no difference whatsoever unless you are some kind of perv that gets a hard on when you see anything distinguishable as not male.<span id='postcolor'>

Just being in the presence of a woman doesn't necessarily mean a "hard-on", but it does have an impact on your personality. That's just part of having testosterone in your genetic structure. That's the way your God designed you, so I suggest you take it up with him (her?).... wink.gif

I'm still waiting for the all-pro all-woman NFL team to play against the....hell ANY existing NFL team. Won't ever happen, but if it did, the majority of the women would end up in the hospital.....and that's a GAME. wow.gif

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Nope becuase i thnik it would defragment the unit slightly for obvious reasons in ones like infantry commandos etc im not usre on pilots and other ones though.

Talking about discimination why is it that the minimuim retiring age for old is lower for women then it is for men.women last longer yet get pension earlier o_0

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wow.gif0--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KingBeast @ Dec. 02 2002,23wow.gif0)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">If a woman in full combat gear and camoed up would make any one of you drool and dribble and run inefficiently as soldiers, then there are some incredibly serious  social problems here.

Sure, you get a pretty face to look at rather than an ugly bloke, but i dont see how that is going to distract you from your duties.<span id='postcolor'>

You are missing the point.

In an all-male unit, the males are not in a competitive situation, since the pecking order is clearly established (ranks) and there is nothing to compete over. Thus friction between the unit members is minimized. They can all fear for their lives and miss you-know-what together, this unites them.

In a unit with some females, the males are suddenly plunged into a competitive situation over getting some. The brass will utilize their rank to score with the females and the grunts will use any means available to them to score. Eventually somebody will score. Now the rest of the males are envious of this one who is getting some, when everybody else is starved of sexual relief. This kind of unequality will break up the unit unity.

A military unit without females is like a bar with no chicks in it: Blokes being all friendly with each other and singing drinking songs. A military unit with some females is like a typical club: Blokes trying desperately to score in an every man for himself, dog eat dog, style.

At least that's how it went when I served.

EDIT:ralph: some word choices. sad.gif

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</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Oligo @ Dec. 02 2002,10:30)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">You are missing the point.

In an all-male unit, the males are not in a competitive situation, since the pecking order is clearly established (ranks) and there is nothing to compete over. Thus friction between the unit members is minimized. They can all fear for their lives and miss you-know-what together, this unites them.

In a unit with some females, the males are suddenly plunged into a competitive situation over getting some. The brass will utilize their rank to score with the females and the grunts will use any means available to them to score. Eventually somebody will score. Now the rest of the males are envious of this one who is getting some, when everybody else is starved of sexual relief. This kind of unequality will break up the unit unity.

A military unit without females is like a bar with no chicks in it: Blokes being all friendly with each other and singing drinking songs. A military unit with some females is like a typical club: Blokes trying desperately to score in an every man for himself, dog eat dog, style.

At least that's how it went when I served.

EDIT:ralph: some word choices. <!--emo&sad.gif<span id='postcolor'>

Sheesh, you sure served with some really weird people, i enjoy being near women, and i'm not talking about the sexual part. I dunno about any of you guys, but i never compete with other guys just cuz there's a woman somewhere near me. Actually that would be pretty damn pathetic. It's like the macho guy that tries to be coooool just to impress someone. Everyone just thinks he's a stupid moron...

It would help a lot if everyone would just act towards women like they act towards men. If a bar changes into a violant place when a woman walks in then i certainly haven't walked inside a bar yet.

Where i live, bars turn into places that are a lot more fun when a woman comes in. And nobody tries to impress anyone.

Your description of a soldier reminds me of the 'typical' man, a human that wants sex sex sex above everything and that thinks a woman is nothing more than something to have sex with. If you ask me, that's something extremely pathetic...

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You mean.....wait a minute......are you saying that the purpose in life isn't to lay as many women as possible? wow.gif

CRAP! That means I could have let the ugly ones go! confused.gif

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Get real, women combat soldiers?  While the men of the platoon are waiting in the APC or the helicopter, she'd be in the bathroom still putting on her makeup. ("I'll be out in a minute..." famous last words)  She's be like "Oh my god, I can't wear dark green after April; Should I bring a poncho, it might rain?"  Has anyone seen the stuff they have to bring on a trip?  It's at least twice as much as any guy has to bring.  Bad idea.

-=Die Alive=-

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</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Has anyone seen the stuff they have to bring on a trip?<span id='postcolor'>

Therefore we have rules. Rules on equipment and personal stuff. I doubt you´d be able to see a women that decided to go into army with lipstick and make up. They are not stupid.

But I think males tend to think in very small corridors.

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I just read all the pages because I was hoping someone would post more pics of women in the military (ahem, attractive women wink.gif)

no, but seriously, here in america I believe equal rights, equal responsability.

women voting?

going to college?

and now they are wearing pants!?!?

whats with these crazy broads!! (j/k)

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</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (DarkLight @ Dec. 03 2002,17:00)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Sheesh, you sure served with some really weird people, i enjoy being near women, and i'm not talking about the sexual part.  I dunno about any of you guys, but i never compete with other guys just cuz there's a woman somewhere near me.  Actually that would be pretty damn pathetic.  It's like the macho guy that tries to be coooool just to impress someone.  Everyone just thinks he's a stupid moron...<span id='postcolor'>

People change when you stuff them into barracks. I'm not talking about your typical society environment with almost no stress. I'm talking about an environment where people are pushed to their limit and beyond. I'm talking about an environment, where some men cry.

You should hear a typical conversation between soldiers after they have been in the field in the mud and rain for two weeks without seeing anything even remotely female. I'd bet my money that the conversation is about getting some. I don't even want to think about soldiers who have been on the field for months...

Stress brings out strange aspects of male nature.

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</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Oligo @ Dec. 03 2002,12:30)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Stress brings out strange aspects of male nature.<span id='postcolor'>

While some people have that strange aspect the whole time...

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Has anyone read "The Forever War" by Joe Haldeman? Its a sci-fi, and its kind of realtes to the Vietnam War (hard to explain) but it has a very interesting concept about women in the army. In the book, men and women get along and fight well together and there isnt really any distinction between the two.

The concept in the book is that the army match different men and women up at different times to have sex, called confraternising or something biggrin.gif So that would eliminate competition, because everyones goign to get laid biggrin.gif

It is a really good book, and has some very strange ideas. For instance, everytime this guy goes on a tour of duty, he has to travel very far in a ship. And for some reason, the way this thing travels, a couple of months to them ends up putting them 200-300 years in front of earth time. So by the time he gets back from each tour of duty, earth is completely changed.

But yeah im going on and on a bit, so ill stop. But what im saying is, if you keep men and women in the military long enough together then there isnt going to be any of this competitiveness crap, because they will be used to one another.

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