Canada tries to buy russian torpedo

[Assault (CAN) 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Even firing a nuclear torpedo in the right direction would give the sub extremely slim chances of survival. <span id='postcolor'>

Would the chances improve if the sub commander were to time the exact moment of detonation, and then surface? If they were on the surface, would it give the crew a better chance of survival since they could ditch?

Well, it would be kind of pointless if the Sub was alone in the middle of the ocean with no hope of rescue.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">A shockwave travels much better in water then in air. <span id='postcolor'>

If I recall correctly, it is roughly 5 times faster in water near the surface, than it is in the air.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Why not spend all this cash on new Navy helos, or more than one colour of camo?<span id='postcolor'>

Or LSVW's that don't break down, or on more spare parts, or on more instructors, or on better small arms? The list goes on and on. DND HQ can run things about efficiently as the Liberal Government.

You can thank Trudeau for fucking up the CF back in the 70's. It's been down hill ever since.

Tyler

[Tovarish 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Othin @ Nov. 15 2002,17:17)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">He says the idea might have been to buy the torpedo and share it with other NATO partners.<span id='postcolor'>

I think this is the most likely reason why Canada would pursue a technology like this.  Most likely they're just acting as middlemen or brokers.  As far as I know France has already purchased the technology, but they're notorious for keeping their FME efforts to themselves...<span id='postcolor'>

I also think this is the most probable reason. Especially since an American was arrested for espionage in connection with this torpedo. WTF does Canada need a supertorpedo for? This is either another way the Americans are trying to get the torpedo, or the powers that be in Canada are crazier than we thought .

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Assault (CAN) @ Nov. 15 2002,21:41)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Even firing a nuclear torpedo in the right direction would give the sub extremely slim chances of survival. <span id='postcolor'>

Would the chances improve if the sub commander were to time the exact moment of detonation, and then surface? If they were on the surface, would it give the crew a better chance of survival since they could ditch?

Well, it would be kind of pointless if the Sub was alone in the middle of the ocean with no hope of rescue.<span id='postcolor'>

I don't know. Perhaps if he shot it from a long distance, reversed, went full flank and then make an emergency surface.. It all depends on the strength of the warhead, distance etc etc.

Let me just say that I wouldn't want to be in that sub anyway

[Sadico 1]

Maybe you are right, denoir but i think the soviets would have happily destroyed 3 of their ederly novembers or victor I's to get a hugely expensive Los Angeles class. Also, all soviet subs were double hulled (except the Alfa class, that has titanium hull, and some classes such as Sierra have double titanium hull), and they should stand the shockwave better than an american or british sub.

[edc 0]

I'm not sure how realistic it is but you can fire a Shkval(You know what I mean ) in Sub Command (a game)from an Akula SSN.

[Sadico 1]

Then i must buy that game

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Sadico @ Nov. 16 2002,00:51)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Maybe you are right, denoir but i think the soviets would have happily destroyed 3 of their ederly novembers or victor I's to get a hugely expensive Los Angeles class.<span id='postcolor'>

You have to remember that each of these submarines carry a crew of 100+ men. Not even under the coldest of the cold war were the soviets so inhumane to be willing to make such a sacrifice to get an enemy sub.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Also, all soviet subs were double hulled (except the Alfa class, that has titanium hull, and some classes such as Sierra have double titanium hull), and they should stand the shockwave better than an american or british sub.<span id='postcolor'>

The double hulls and the titanium were very bad investments. The only thing its good for is agianst the Mark 46 torpedo, that has a somewhat weaker warhead. A 48 punches through a double titanium alloy hull like nothing.

[cam0flage 0]

Here is the entry for Shkval at fas.org

[Badgerboy 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Code-named the Shkval (Squall), the new weapon travels at a velocity that would give a targeted vessel very little chance to perform evasive action. The missile has been characterized as a "revenge" weapon, which would be fired along the bearing of an incoming enemy torpedo. The Shkval may be considered a follow-on to the Russian BGT class of evasion torpedoes, which are fired in the direction of an incoming torpedo to try to force an attacking to evade (and hopefully snap the torpedo's guidance wires).<span id='postcolor'>

It's quite a novel idea actually. It would at least force the enemy torpedo to go active.

[FSPilot 0]

That's a pretty neat advancement.

But what would you need a 500kmph torpedo for? You've got all the time in the world underwater, if they can't see you that is.

[second_draw 0]

It may sound stupid but is could be possible to steer the torp. via shortwave radio or something like that? btw, you'd think that you would be shooting down an aircraft with a speed of 700km/hr.

Just a quick sidenote: Has anyone heard of the australian collins class submarine? I heard from a somewhat informed source that the shitstorm it recieved was a load of rubbish?

collins class info

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (second_draw @ Nov. 17 2002,03:00)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">It may sound stupid but is could be possible to steer the torp. via shortwave radio or something like that? btw, you'd think that you would be shooting down an aircraft with a speed of 700km/hr.<span id='postcolor'>

Radio waves don't travel well at all under water so the use of radio is impossible. Standard torpedos have instead a wire that is attached to the sub. It recieves data through there until it is close enough and detaches or until the wire is cut for one reason or another.

A shkval uses a rocket engine which would make it very difficult to have something hanging behind it without destroying the wire.

[Tex -USMC- 0]

Anyone know if you can use ELF waves to control a torp?

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Tex [uSMC] @ Nov. 17 2002,03:16)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Anyone know if you can use ELF waves to control a torp?<span id='postcolor'>

In theory probably yes, but there would be no reason for it. ELF is one way communication from the mainland. The sub can't generate ELF waves, only recieve them.

Also ELF is far to slow for realtime control like the one that is needed for torpedos.

[Tex -USMC- 0]

Well, just a thought. I guess the only other explanation is that the torp has its own guidance system.

[eh remraf 0]

Looks like the latest model of it is fired out of the tube, slows down and goes into search mode using passive/active accoustics. As stated at FAS the original was unguided. This means it would be used to fire at an incoming torp vector to possibly set the incoming torpedo off course or severing it's guiding wire. One thing though it has a range of 7,500 yards. Thats somewhat limited to ranges from the Mk48(45,000yards at 40kts) So, I can see this torpedo being a close quarters, last ditch torpedo. I'd like to see any sub get 7,500 yards near any of the latest US or Russian subs without being noticed.

[damn typo]