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Star Wars mod, what is going on?

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I suggest to the BHI guys that make a complete compilation of all the proofs related to this issue:

 

Emails.

Pictures of the pm inside this forum.

Any internet material can BHI get.

Make screen captures of everything

Get all the avaiable files

etc, etc.

 

Because if there's any legal issue they can be legally sued even if they dont release his mod, in legal terms you have think, ever, ever in the worst case scenario.

 

 

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3 hours ago, Ryejin said:

so much drama, sure the idea of a star wars mod is very cool, and i know stolen content is bad, but why so much hate and drama on both sides? its a damn war of the ego's right now and its very sad! I support nether side but i did like the star wars mod when it was up, realism and modern mods where getting very boring to me so this added character, but then i find the drama, UGH  i propose this, both sides make a peace pack to end the drama!

This really isn't about two teams needing to make up. This is about one team stealing assets, both from the mod team BHI* and from other video games. This 'opposition' mod doesnt have any real argument for them, as they are just pirates and nothing else. People might want a star wars mod, sure, but that doesnt absolve all the legal and moral issues with content theft.

 

*Never played the mod, but the video from earlier puts it rather plainly.

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2 hours ago, Karl Sauer said:

This really isn't about two teams needing to make up. This is about one team stealing assets, both from the mod team BHI* and from other video games. This 'opposition' mod doesnt have any real argument for them, as they are just pirates and nothing else. People might want a star wars mod, sure, but that doesnt absolve all the legal and moral issues with content theft.

 

*Never played the mod, but the video from earlier puts it rather plainly.

fair enough

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The mod has been taken down but history continues in:

 

MOD WARS XXXVIII - The attack of pirate modders vs the forces of nothing -

 

Only in selected pendrives.

 

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9 hours ago, djotacon said:

Because if there's any legal issue they can be legally sued even if they dont release his mod, in legal terms you have think, ever, ever in the worst case scenario.

I just made an account to respond to this, legally any and all content they've made star wars related belongs to Disney. So unless you want Disney lawyers starting to look at you, which if I recall correctly was the reason why IA was shut down in the first place (that being they didn't want to get hit with legal issues)

 

So while yes its shitty that there has been content stolen, the most they can do is have the mod taken down. Suing will just lead to Disney coming around and fucking the rest of the star wars modding community once they've seen money is being made off it, and as a lead dev for a big MoW star wars mod the last thing I need is having the last 2 years of work be shut down by Disney.

 

In the end its a shitty situation no matter what, you've already had tens of thousands of people download it so the only thing you can do is try to keep it off steam. But I can guarantee they'll just upload it to their VK page and other people will have it uploaded on MEGA or google docs.

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4 minutes ago, Lt Murphy said:

I just made an account to respond to this, legally any and all content they've made star wars related belongs to Disney. So unless you want Disney lawyers starting to look at you, which if I recall correctly was the reason why IA was shut down in the first place (that being they didn't want to get hit with legal issues)

 

So while yes its shitty that there has been content stolen, the most they can do is have the mod taken down. Suing will just lead to Disney coming around and fucking the rest of the star wars modding community once they've seen money is being made off it, and as a lead dev for a big MoW star wars mod the last thing I need is having the last 2 years of work be shut down by Disney.

 

In the end its a shitty situation no matter what, you've already had tens of thousands of people download it so the only thing you can do is try to keep it off steam. But I can guarantee they'll just upload it to their VK page and other people will have it uploaded on MEGA or google docs.

 

In a worst case scenario every assets and his creators involved ( with permission or not) can be sued against you and have a lot of troubles, in my own legal experience in a trial everything can be used against you in a trial, that why I make the previous post.

 

Thats why I suggest make compilation of everything.

 

But probably you have more legally experience than my in IP sued cases over internet, can you provide us legal documentation about this issue?

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A lot of bullshit could be avoided if people just pull the stuff they haven't created themselves when asked in a reasonable way. But unfortunately they don't. And have preferred instead, to keep the ball rolling. Out of spite perhaps. As far as I'm aware most modders ask for the material to be removed without being abusive. What they say after that is likely based on the response they get.

 

I know for a fact that Pomigit in particular, was getting an incredibly childish response simply because the BHI team decided to call their project off. That was well before all this silliness. Which is now adding to it. Either it's a bunch of children who don't know any better. Or adults with no self control.

 

The people doing most of the whining won't have to face any legal ramifications. If it came to that, I'm sure they'd wander off and find something else, after a good moan about it. But they won't be left holding the proverbial bag.

 

One thing that doesn't seem to have sunk in, is that they're actually making it more visible by being combative. If that's their intent, it's at least one thing they're doing right.Their own negativity is more likely to cause the opposite effect to the one they want.

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On 2017-6-14 at 4:50 PM, haleks said:

We've already "lost" excellent modders over that kind of nonsense - and now Pomigit seems to be giving up too. This is doing more damage than good, all over the board, and I think we are in fact pretty civil, all things considered

 

It is definitely sad, Firstly I personally really hate the fact that license owners like Disney are so repressive towards modders who are creating their own content from the Hobbyist perspective. I think they should actually motivate this kind of work and they should be more proud of what is being created by these people and instead of putting them down they should offer these Creators Legal protection from such nonsense if they do create it from the ground up. There should also be some sort of protection towards intellectual property theft for modders when it comes to creating these MODS, however, as long if we do not see such a legal structure around the work delivered we will keep seeing these things and legal issues will keep rising up whether we like it or not, while it is sad, we personally as the user can not do anything about it but I do believe "and this is like with everything" if modders stand up against it together things can change but only those involved in such an undertaking can do something about it.

 

Crowdfund legal actions against dumbwits like Disney and shut them up for once and for all so they can not take the hard work away, force something out of the sleeves of the hard working modders who do it with their heart and soul that's the only way I see something changing as for the nitwits that like to steal intellectual property goods I want to be clear I talk about those modders that really create their own stuff, or at least refer to the original creator of the MOD being used as those do earn that respect, your kind definitely not!

 

best of regards.

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1 hour ago, kEvInMGXP said:

Firstly I personally really hate the fact that license owners like Disney are so repressive towards modders who are creating their own content from the Hobbyist perspective.

Perhaps they own the copyright of all such items and are being protective towards their product?

 

 

1 hour ago, kEvInMGXP said:

Crowdfund legal actions against dumbwits like Disney and shut them up for once and for all so they can not take the hard work away from modders

Excellent response... not :headscratch: 

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6 hours ago, road runner said:

Perhaps they own the copyright of all such items and are being protective towards their product?

 

 

I think you are missing the point, being repressive towards modders who create their OWN content for free WITHOUT COSTS to be used in another game which is not even related to them except of the fact that it is based on something that they created hardly reflects their copyrights nor does it harm their IP in any way, sorry but I can not really agree with that statement that they are protecting their products when it is not created by their hand meaning created from the bottom up by modders from the hobbyist perspective.

 

I do understand that a developer wants to protect their product but in my book this does not apply to this case, if I would follow that logic I wouldn't be able to create my son's or daughter's own lightsaber or Jedi costume and play with it just because Disney didn't give me the permission for it. The content created by these modders are in my eyes created from the ground up and is not theirs to claim in my opinion, modders should be lawfully be protected to make such things without the worry to be prosecuted because they want to offer friends or communities their OWN created content and play together.

 

6 hours ago, road runner said:

Excellent response... not :headscratch: 

 

 

Plain and simple yes, people like you and Disney see these topics to black and white while there should be a more gray area around this which would be perfectly co-existant with the protection of the copyright laws, in this case, it is not because they say no that it should be a no because they said so. This is NOT about their content being misused it's about content created by others "who are, I agree, strongly relying on visual aspects created by Disney in their movies, cartoons, and games alike," offered freely in another game for personal use with friends and community without cost.

 

Copyrights should not be restricted and implemented in such a repressive way in this case as it doesn't really harm Disney or businesses like them financially or at least I can not see something bad coming from it as long if it is used in such a way as described. Look at Mass Effect which is another nice IP I can name a few game where MOD developers recreated that world in another game e.g. Stellaris, Homeworld. Same goes for example Lord of the Rings which is also is owned by Disney those modders recreated LOTR's word nicely in Medieval II Total War, also known as Third Age Total War, strangely Disney did not put a DMCA on it at all but they did surprisingly put a DMCA on a modification which would recreate Lord of the Rings in Skyrim, which proves kinda exactly my point!

 

I can not get rid of the idea that Disney uses copyrights in similar cases based on clouded judgements, not backed up by decent arguments that would harm them in a way that these modders are in the wrongdoing, in such a case we even have a law here, when freely translated, it means "The Wrong Uses of Right" in this case the wrong use of the copyright infringement which leads to a unrightfully take Dawns based on their personal opinion, not because it really harms their business or their IP in general.

 

Best of regards

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If the guys that put it together would just remove the stuff created by modders, it'd be case closed.

 

Fans of this port, in particular, are harassing the wrong people. Some have mentioned how "small" or unimportant the BHI content was. If that's the case, what's the reasoning behind dragging these situations out? I don't understand it. It's contradictory. Besides that, the people who create something from nothing have a little more say in this than someone simply packaging it up.

 

And how is harassing individuals trying to have a little control over their own stuff, heroic or rebellious? It's hardly a moral victory. Who exactly are the fans sticking it to?

 

As for the companies involved, it'd be nice if they were more mod friendly. Sure. But the point is, they don't have to be. And likely don't want to have to police it .Truth be told they'd rather it wasn't there at all. A lot of companies are not that keen on allowing their games to be modded. No matter how popular it is.

 

But I doubt it accounts for sales in the way some people think. From their point of view it's probably not worth the hassle to get involved in it. And their legal departments will always advise against any potential threat to copyright. I believe there are some countries where ownership can actually be contested, if the company involved doesn't move to protect it. I can't see them relenting on that, especially with a global franchise.

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5 hours ago, kEvInMGXP said:

 

I agree with the principle of IP, unless I don't want to.

 

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5 hours ago, lordniti2 said:

I just wanna enjoy this star wars mod... is that so hard to ask?!


Well, Disney IP not withstanding, it contained content not wholly created by them which was subsequently uploaded to the Steam workshop in contravention of their (Steam's) EULA. In that light, what you're saying is something akin to "why can't I buy that new 4K TV with my own money that was stolen from that woman over there by my friend."

Multiple wrongs do not make a right. 

If one wants to stand up for part time artists (mod makers) and their rights, one must also stand for the rights of all IP rights holders. 

"If you don’t stand for something, you’ll fall for anything."

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Regardless, sw oppostion is an amazing mod and I just want to enjoy its the only good star wars mod we have for arma 3 (no offence to BHI)

 

in anycase I don't think the developers behind opposition will ever cancel it they seem to be strong willed and don't shy away from potential dmcas 

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I don't remember them being told to "cancel" it. Certainly not from the concerned parties.

 

I understand some fans are disappointed. It doesn't feel good having control taken away or being obstructed. So imagine how irritating it is for a modder have someone else do it to them. Considering they're the ones that created the stuff.

 

Fans could ask the authors to consider taking out the disputed content and moving on. Unless it's devolved into something tribal. Which would make no sense.

 

If this kind of situation becomes common place, you might end up with only ports and rips. That probably doesn't bother people just passing through, or those with interest in only one mod. But there are others who don't want to see an exodus of people out of the scene as a whole. Which may yet happen.

 

This isn't something isolated to the Arma series.

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I see a video from this "mod" and I can't stop laughing...

 

The most horrible rip-off of assets that I never seen in Arma 3.

 

Craptacular!

 

Note: How much misterious rookie accounts we will see in this forum to support to mod pirates?

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13 hours ago, lordniti2 said:

Regardless, sw oppostion is an amazing mod and I just want to enjoy its the only good star wars mod we have for arma 3 (no offence to BHI)

 

None taken, youre entitled to your opinion and we have different ideas of what makes a mod amazing.

 

BHI was always about more than just bringing a Star Wars mod to ARMA 3, we valued quality over quantity and invested a lot of time and energy into doing it the right way. 

 

There's a huge difference (in terms of time and effort) between making models, textures, sounds, animations etc from scratch versus simply porting large quantities of pre-made assets.

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All this reminds me of the seagulls in Finding Nemo. You modders make mods presumably because you like to, because you like the kudos it gets you when people use them. One or two try and make money off it and they, in my experience, get rightly slapped for it by the others.

 

So what I don't understand is that other modders take the work you threw away, mash it up, alter it a little and make something, frankly, better or more interesting then you get bent out of shape, throw your toys out of the pram and declare you are taking your genius elsewhere. The SW mod is a case in point. You may well have made the oiriginal assets, but you sat on them, consigned them to a cupboard- and someone else decided to do something with them. You should be pleased. Instead, you give us a perfect example of dog in the manger - if I am not going to get my name on the record label, then no-one will hear it. Frankly, I am like 90 per cent of the guys playing Arma 3 - I don't care where it comes from, but I will applaud the workmanship and laugh at those who foot-stamp about having their 'property' stolen. I might point out that you and every modder who does one for Arma 3 piggybacks on an existing game.

 

And this attitude has spoiled the enjoyment of all those you claim to be working for.

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I could understand the "piggy back" concept when talking about reskins or config modification. But not building something from scratch that doesn't already exist. Those are very different things. Why is that relevant anyway?

 

2 hours ago, blow56 said:

You modders make mods presumably because you like to, because you like the kudos it gets you when people use them

There are some who do it for that reason. But not everyone. Some do it because they want to see the addon or mod in the game themselves. Then they make it available if they think it's worth releasing publicly. Don't make assumptions.

 

Nobody's asking you or anyone else to care. Just respect an author's decision regarding their stuff. Whether you agree with it is not the issue. Do you feel the need to explain your actions to complete strangers?

 

The old toys and pram line doesn't cut much ice. Especially when "fans" of that port are hassling people about it being hobbled. They're not getting what they want and there's plenty of foot stamping going on. Which is what you're accusing other people of. That's hypocritical.

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3 hours ago, blow56 said:

All this reminds me of the seagulls in Finding Nemo. You modders make mods presumably because you like to, because you like the kudos it gets you when people use them. One or two try and make money off it and they, in my experience, get rightly slapped for it by the others.

all this reminds me why in 90% of the cases don't give a fuck about self-entitled pricks 

 

Quote

So what I don't understand is that other modders take the work you threw away, mash it up, alter it a little and make something, frankly, better or more interesting then you get bent out of shape, throw your toys out of the pram and declare you are taking your genius elsewhere. The SW mod is a case in point. You may well have made the oiriginal assets, but you sat on them, consigned them to a cupboard- and someone else decided to do something with them. You should be pleased. Instead, you give us a perfect example of dog in the manger - if I am not going to get my name on the record label, then no-one will hear it.

 

they didn't trow it away, they simply didn't release it, and you and me don't deserve any explanations. Theft is still theft, even when digital IP rights are concerned.

You'd be surprised to find out that most if not all mod makers have tons of content that is quite ready but unreleased, most of it will never actually see the light of day...i personally have at least 4 addons in that state, a ton more content done or almost done but abandoned to "a cupboard". Go have a fit because of it please

 

Quote

 

Frankly, I am like 90 per cent of the guys playing Arma 3 - I don't care where it comes from, but I will applaud the workmanship and laugh at those who foot-stamp about having their 'property' stolen.[...]

 

And this attitude has spoiled the enjoyment of all those you claim to be working for.

 

Frankly, i am like 90% of the content creators: i don't do it for anyone else but myself: my work, my terms, my conditions.

Also just like most of the content creators i don't really care about you the user, your wishlist or you desires: you, the user, get to play with my creation because i allow that to happen, not because "i do the working for you". I am unsure how you came to that conclusion and who actually made that claim...  

I do it for me, you are simply a by product of that. I can very well wake up one day and simply remove all my content from all the places where it has been mirrored, and you couldn't legally do anything about that. More so, i am one of these people who will stump you hard if you breach my EULA in any sort of way.

 

Quote

I might point out that you and every modder who does one for Arma 3 piggybacks on an existing game.

everyone is free to 'piggyback" on A3...why don't you do it yourself and expect others to do it for you?

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3 hours ago, blow56 said:

 

So what I don't understand is that other modders take the work you threw away, mash it up, alter it a little and make something, frankly, better or more interesting then you get bent out of shape,

What? 

 

So we're throwing shit away now, first I've heard of it. Also, I'm not sure you're aware, but they're using content stolen from other games, and the assets look worse, not better, nothing has been improved or made more interesting, but made worse.

 

3 hours ago, blow56 said:

You may well have made the oiriginal assets, but you sat on them, consigned them to a cupboard- and someone else decided to do something with them.

Alright, so how would you feel if someone had gone into your cupboard, taken something you made, cherished, on display and just... rubbed their smelly diseased cock all over it, just made your hard work smell like a fucking cheese wheel, how would that make you feel?

 

I'd imagine you'd be quite displeased with your new, offensive, mutation of whatever it is you were hiding in that cupboard.

 

3 hours ago, blow56 said:

Frankly, I am like 90 per cent of the guys playing Arma 3 - I don't care where it comes from, but I will applaud the workmanship and laugh at those who foot-stamp about having their 'property' stolen.

Our addons are our property though, legally, so by every definition, they are stolen when someone uses our addons without consent.

 

3 hours ago, blow56 said:

I might point out that you and every modder who does one for Arma 3 piggybacks on an existing game.

A pretty fucking moot point, every modder out there piggybacks on a pre existing game, did you think you were being clever when you wrote this? It makes you look rather stupid.

 

3 hours ago, blow56 said:

And this attitude has spoiled the enjoyment of all those you claim to be working for.

We don't work for anyone but ourselves, many people do this for hundereds of different reasons, none of which have to justifiable to the likes of you, you are clearly someone who has not made anything they can call their own and be proud of.

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You people still amaze me with this bs. All I hear is - this is my propertyy, legally and completely. So I am not going to let anyone use it even if I am not. My ball, my game. And the point about piggybacking is to show that, if Bohemia got antsy, they could shut down every Arma 3 modder in the business with the same bs. They don't because its good marketing for them (see below).

 

Why do you MAKE mods? Not for the money, so presumably it is for the praise, for the 'look at my wonders and marvel, o ye mighty'. Which is fair enough - but when your marvels are made just as mighty by others, the thing to do is not huff and puff and demand respect. The thing to do - to get respect from the community you purport to be working for - is to say: 'well done. Nice job. Some of that work is mine, but rather than fuck off all those who want to play it I endorse it.'

 

THAT gets you respect and praise. Not anoymously sticking out a take-down notice because you feel butt-hurt. Shutting down easy access to a mod lots of people want and will find a way to get that doesn't involve you. Making your name shit in the process.

 

BTW - I am a writer. I know copyright and I know how it feels to have people take your work and use it without permission. I am betting sure that everyone above has, at one time or another, downloaded music or books or movies for free. Once I ranted and roared about the amount of my books being ripped off on dl-for-free websites, about all those people who ask for signed copies only to stick them for sale on eBay. But you know what? Makes no difference. All you get is the rep for being a greedy, corporate sell-out bastard. Now I look at what they do as a library; people see what's on offer and maybe read one - then look for my name and the other work I do. I treat it as marketing mate, as should you and all your friends.

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Maybe a stupid question, but is the Disney - Star Wars threat not hypothetical at this point? I know Disney is traditionally protective of its content, but Star Wars has been traditionally open to mods, fan interpretations etc.

 

I expect Disney to respect that tradition more or less, because the PR damage would be greater than the benefit of protecting IP.

 

So in this thread I see some fear of Disney cracking down Star Wars stuff (in general), but has that happened already?

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11 minutes ago, blow56 said:

All you get is the rep for being a greedy, corporate sell-out bastard. Now I look at what they do as a library; people see what's on offer and maybe read one - then look for my name and the other work I do. I treat it as marketing mate, as should you and all your friends.

Part of the problem is the names of original creators get lost in the 'new' mods. Not only by accident, but especially by laziness and disrespect for original creators. That is what stings original creators.

 

Also, as others have mentioned, some of your creations get spread around while they are not finished yet, or not updated. You loose control over the quality of your creations, and it's not good marketing to have crappy versions of your product going around.

 

Do you consider half of your book on the internet, with some parts replaced with bad texts and maybe your name on the cover, but maybe not, as good marketing?

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